Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yeah, I know that stormboyz are not the most competitive unit in the codex, but being an ork player, competitiveness is not exactly top priority. Plus they seem like a lot of fun and I just recently got 20 of them for fairly cheap (19 plus nob with pk, can count as zagstruk) and am wondering how best to use them. I am not sure if I should deploy them normally and move up 12+d6 or try and DS them with zagstuk and hope to be able to assault out of DS. I generally run a speedfreaks type army with 3x BW of shoota boyz and loota support while filling in points with nob bikers or trukks. I also occasionally run green tide if that matters.

Stormboyz die just as fast as regular boyz and will be a more rewarding target for your opponent, so never leave them out in the open. Use the fact that they can pass over terrain and place them behind walls, buildings, hills etc to block your opponent's line of sight to them. In my experience they work best if you hold back for the first few turns and then use their excellent range to support other assaults, or picking out juicier targets like heavy weapons teams after the rest of your force has engaged the enemy. If the opportunity presents itself you can use their Hammer of Wrath as well. Up to 20 S3 hits at I10 is nothing to sneeze at.

At the end of the day, it's just 20 boyz that can move really fast. They won't take down deathstar units or last very long if you engage them too early and they get ganged up on. That's why their speed is best utilized in supporting other mobs. When I manage to use them well I am usually quite happy with their performance.

Yeah I realize they die just as fast as normal boyz for twice the cost but are much faster, so im trying to figure out how best to utilize that. I like that you can exploit weak targets like heavy weapons teams/devos and other supporting units which Is why I thought zagstruk might be useful, but I feel like its pretty risky if you mishap/are not able to charge something. But then again ive never tried them yet.

I used to run 10 Stormboyz led by Zagstruk nearly every game while I played orks. In all honesty, they would never pay back the 205pts cost because they'd kill a unit at best and then get mowed by shooting or countercharges. So I'd avoid Zagstruk right now and use the Nob as, well, a Nob

I either take a squad without Zagstruk and bank on their chance of getting a 30" charge turn one (12+D6+2D6) or else take Zagstruk and use them to take out critical back lines. Guard Tanks? BAM! Wreck a couple. Heavy gun line? Take out their heavy weapons squads. Anything left deep in the back line because it can't survive up close is your target. Don't engage CC squads unless you have nothing else to do, your Ork Boys are just as good and much cheaper.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I either take a squad without Zagstruk and bank on their chance of getting a 30" charge turn one (12+D6+2D6) or else take Zagstruk and use them to take out critical back lines. Guard Tanks? BAM! Wreck a couple. Heavy gun line? Take out their heavy weapons squads. Anything left deep in the back line because it can't survive up close is your target. Don't engage CC squads unless you have nothing else to do, your Ork Boys are just as good and much cheaper.

Yeah thats what I was planning to do (back lines shenanigans). Just not sure if zagstruk is worth it. Has he been worth it for you or would I be better off just taking a nob and saving the points and jump up the board like normal/wait for an exposed area?

Zagstruk is totally worth it. 1 turn is the difference between an effective assault and getting completely blown away. Plus, while he only gets it for one turn before resorting to fisticuffs, a turn of I3 Power Klaw can be useful against slow models.

The only issue with the Zagstruk method is that you're likely to lose 2 models with the swoop, and kill unit/tank X (which isn't as expensive as the unit the majority of the time) and are then left wide open to get butchered. Sure you save a mob from a turn of fire, or distract a combat unit for a round or 2, but they rarely pay back the points IMO. If its a 2000+pts game I'd take a 5 man squad with Zagstruk (like a suicide shot for the problem squad) and then take a bigger squad with the klaw Nob to pounce on the distracted unit. In small games I'd just take more Boyz and leave Fast Attack for bikes/koptas

I have been using Zagstruck and 15 Stromboyz in a foot list to disrupt my opponent while the Boyz slog their way across.

I tried running Stormboyz as a cheap meatshield for a Bike Boss, but they die way too easy at 12 points apiece coming across the table. If I have a Bike Boss, I have the option to try to Deep Strike Zagstruck in so he can join them in their assault.

Since the ork dex came out there has been a steady decrease in points cost for jump Infantry so here hoping that the storm boyz become like 8 or 9 points a pop. I doubt they'll keep there super fast movement though.

 Sinji wrote:
Since the ork dex came out there has been a steady decrease in points cost for jump Infantry so here hoping that the storm boyz become like 8 or 9 points a pop. I doubt they'll keep there super fast movement though.

I hope they get a points decrease. I could see them keeping the extra d6 movement, considering that you have a chance to lose a boy (maybe more of a chance?) and that they arnt exactly any more threatening than normal boyz in combat. Not sure I would use them if they did not go faster than jump infantry, given how easy they are to kill, even if they are a few points less than they are now.

 Sinji wrote:
Since the ork dex came out there has been a steady decrease in points cost for jump Infantry so here hoping that the storm boyz become like 8 or 9 points a pop. I doubt they'll keep there super fast movement though.

I'd agree to a points drop, they're overpriced and underpowered which is doubly bad. So 9pts each sounds right to me, maybe a small drop for Zagstruk too (70pts ish maybe?) although knowing GW they'll likely make them worse too

I hate to say it but I think GW is getting rid of things that can assault out of reserve so I think Zag might get a nerf. I'd like to see them do something good with the choppa. Maybe increased AP or I on the charge or something along those lines.

 Sinji wrote:
I hate to say it but I think GW is getting rid of things that can assault out of reserve so I think Zag might get a nerf. I'd like to see them do something good with the choppa. Maybe increased AP or I on the charge or something along those lines.

Certainly the big choppa needs it, +2S is all well and good but my warboss will never kill that SM Captain in power armour without AP3, which considering the sheer power and 'oomph' of said big choppa it really should be. Choppas will likely be AP5 at best, anymore and they become seriously OP without a price hike

They are orks. Use every shenanigan available to you. Sometimes they will get you the win other(most) times they won't do anything, but you're playing orks--just go for it.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I used to run 10 Stormboyz led by Zagstruk nearly every game while I played orks. In all honesty, they would never pay back the 205pts cost because they'd kill a unit at best and then get mowed by shooting or countercharges. So I'd avoid Zagstruk right now and use the Nob as, well, a Nob

They may not get their points back but 40k isn't just about "who gets their points back". If the stormboyz can DS, charge and take out a unit that's shooting the rest of your army to smithereens, or threatens your BWs, then I could care less if they only got half their points back: they've been very useful and have tipped the scales in my favour.

You're right shadow its not about points paid back, it just helps to know they've killed the equivalent of what I paid for them. I do agree that there's a place for Zagstruk if you're expecting a gunline, but sometimes that distraction of whizzing stormboyz heading right at you will mess up the fire control nearly as bad. As i think I said before, a small suicide strike with Zagstruk and a larger, deployed unit is the way IMO

As someone who plays against stormboyz fairly often.... a unit of 15-20 hopping around the board is a frightening thing, especially if they are supporting Boyz/nobz in trucks or nob bikers. Providing a number of threats is the name of the game in 40k now and having a unit that will jump 13-18 inches a turn and still assault 2d6 is pretty awesome.

Let me restate a part of that - they are frightening, not because of the damage they can pull off, but more so because of the board control they can give their general. the ability to tie up your opponent for a few turns of combat while they whittle threw the stormboyz can be key to grabbing some objectives and winning.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 Sinji wrote:
I hate to say it but I think GW is getting rid of things that can assault out of reserve so I think Zag might get a nerf. I'd like to see them do something good with the choppa. Maybe increased AP or I on the charge or something along those lines.

Certainly the big choppa needs it, +2S is all well and good but my warboss will never kill that SM Captain in power armour without AP3, which considering the sheer power and 'oomph' of said big choppa it really should be. Choppas will likely be AP5 at best, anymore and they become seriously OP without a price hike

The Big Choppa could be useful if it had the Rending Special rule.

AP5 Choppas

Amount of feths give: zero

 Dakkamite wrote:

AP5 Choppas

Amount of feths give: zero

It makes sense though if you think about it though, orks should reliably kill guardsmen every time. No need to shoot down an idea just because it doesn't sound right to you, there's better ways to do it (I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm only saying, no offence intended)