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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 17:23:34
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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MODS: I didn't know where to put this as I didn't want to clutter up the other related posts. If you feel it should be in another existing thread, let me know.
This is an interesting read... The Real Lesson Of The IRS Scandal: Federal agencies from the FDA to the EPA to the FCC threaten the rule of law via the Permit Power:
The news of the past week has rightly been dominated by allegations of abuse in the Exempt Office (EO) of the Internal Revenue Service. The EO is in charge of processing applications for tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code, which authorizes these exemptions for “civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare.” Some 3,357 applications for tax-exempt status were filed in 2012, an election year, which was a 50 percent increase from the 2,265 applications filed in w 2011.
The criteria for Section 501(c)(4) organizations are open-ended. Few complex organizations are ever operated “exclusively” for any single purpose, and the many applicants have rather different definitions of what counts as “social welfare.” The deadly combination of loose standards and applications in the thousands empowers the EO to decide which applications sail through, and which are mired in delay.
The May 14 report of the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration’s (IG) explicitly stated that the EO’s actions were “not politically biased,” but were attributable solely to the confusions of lower staff members, who somehow for nearly three years never quite understood their jobs assignments. Don’t believe a word of that whitewash. All the nitpicking questions and pointless delays, such as those experienced by the Ohio Tea Party, were calibrated to hold off the approval of these applications until after the November 2012 presidential election.
The Larger Lesson
The dismal performance of the IRS is but a symptom of a much larger disease which has taken root in the charters of many of the major administrative agencies in the United States today: the permit power. Private individuals are not allowed to engage in certain activities or to claim certain benefits without the approval of some major government agency. The standards for approval are nebulous at best, which makes it hard for any outside reviewer to overturn the agency’s decision on a particular application.
That power also gives the agency discretion to drag out its review, since few individuals or groups are foolhardy enough to jump the gun and set up shop without obtaining the necessary approvals first. It takes literally a few minutes for a skilled government administrator to demand information that costs millions of dollars to collect and that can tie up a project for years. That delay becomes even longer for projects that need approval from multiple agencies at the federal or state level, or both.
The beauty of all of this (for the government) is that there is no effective legal remedy. Any lawsuit that protests the improper government delay only delays the matter more. Worse still, it also invites that agency (and other agencies with which it has good relations) to slow down the clock on any other applications that the same party brings to the table. Faced with this unappetizing scenario, most sophisticated applicants prefer quiet diplomacy to frontal assault, especially if their solid connections or campaign contributions might expedite the application process. Every eager applicant may also be stymied by astute competitors intent on slowing the approval process down, in order to protect their own financial profits. So more quiet diplomacy leads to further social waste.
One reason the administrative process gets so bogged down is the grandiose standards the agencies employ. The FDA’s mission statement provides one example: “The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, medical devices, our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation.”
What is left unstated is how the FDA determines “the safety, efficacy, and security” of the huge list of products whose use it oversees. Clearly, absolute “safety, efficacy, and security” are unattainable, so it falls to the FDA to turn differences in kind into differences of degree. For example, just how safe is safe enough when all “safe” drugs have deadly side effects for which some FDA warnings are appropriate? The ambiguity in these key areas lets the FDA ask companies for additional trials in a two-page letter, often needlessly tacking on years to any particular application.
Similarly, “The mission of the California Environmental Protection Agency (Cal/EPA) is to restore, protect, and enhance the environment, to ensure public health, environmental quality, and economic vitality.” Once again, such a grand vision does not answer any of the hard decisions that an agency faces when the scarcity of social resources precludes perfect restoration, complete protection, and vigorous enhancement of the environment. But the mission statement does permit the agency to slow down growth, often for years, and never with compensation for the aggrieved owner.
The Federal Communications Commission is no better. It issues and reviews broadcast licenses by asking whether an application promotes the “public interest, convenience, and necessity.” This formless standard often allows the FCC to do largely what it wants. The short duration of these licenses inspire all sorts of objections at renewal time. And the want of outright ownership allows the FCC to impose a host of technical conditions that can impair the overall efficiency of spectrum use.
One Disease, Many Cures
These three mission statements share a common feature with the tax-exemptions in the IRS: They use broad mandates that foster administrative discretion and delay, both of which pose a threat to the rule of law. Even though the disease is the same in all cases, the cure surely is not. Here is a quick primer on what ought to be done in these different settings.
501(C)(4) Organizations — The IRS’s 501(c)(4) standard, “operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare,” is an open invitation for disaster. It should be scrapped entirely. That would leave in place Section 501(c)(3), which already covers a long list of organizations that are “operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, to foster national or international amateur sports competition, to promote the arts, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.” In 2012, over 66,000 organizations sought tax-exempt status under this subsection. If these organizations don’t promote the “social welfare,” then just why do they receive this preferred tax treatment? Scrapping 501(c)(4) exemptions should make it harder for all political organizations of whatever persuasion to find relief at the IRS.
The Food and Drug Administration — Turning next to the FDA, it is critical to strip it of most of its approval power. Right now, FDA approval involves three stages of clinical trials. Stage one clinical trials are small size affairs, intended to test whether a drug has serious adverse safety consequences that make it unfit for human use. Stage two and stage three trials are progressively far more elaborate productions intended to test for both safety and effectiveness before letting a drug on the market. Little time and money is spent on stage one trials. Stage two trials cost substantial sums. Stage three trials can cost thousands of lives, millions of dollars, and many years.
The best strategy to keep the FDA under control is to block it from banning a drug simply because the drug has not passed stage two or three trials. The removal of FDA oversight will allow these drugs to reach the market more quickly. People who are sick can then decide with the aid of their physicians and healthcare organizations whether to take these drugs in light of the other alternatives available to them. In so doing, they need not fly blind because many independent professional organizations right now do a far better job of evaluating drug efficacy by looking at off-label and overseas usage of drugs.
Liberalize the rules, and experimental treatments will not fall in the exclusive province of the rich and the well-connected (if indeed they are available to anyone at all). The drug companies and the patients can decide by contract how best to allocate the risk of adverse consequences. Clinical trials will not disappear, but they will be directed at satisfying potential customers, including health plan operators, and not FDA officials. There will be some losses from premature use, but far fewer losses from unconscionable delay, and far lower prices that will allow for greater access.
Environmental Protection — Endless environmental permits far too often stand in the path of sensible development. These permits require comprehensive evaluation of all potential future adverse effects, no matter how small or improbable, that might follow from the construction of a new plant or facility. Yet the parade of horribles rarely comes to pass.
This exhaustive preclearance stands in stark contrast to the private law rules that were developed in connection with just these environmental risks, and provide a clear solution to the problem: Allow the activity to proceed naturally as the market would dictate, but then draw a real red line in the sand once there is evidence that a plant or facility poses actual or imminent peril of serious harm. Then, but only then, lower the boom.
First, make them responsible for any harm caused, no excuses allowed. Second, shut the facility down immediately at the insistence of either the government or private party until the peril is corrected. Keeping that tough standard means that businesses with millions at stake in their new operations will steer clear of doubtful zones. New facilities will get online more rapidly, allowing dangerous older equipment, which is often grandfathered in under current laws, to be removed from operations more quickly. Killing the permit culture will reduce the opportunities for that deadly duo of discretion and delay.
FCC Licenses — The FCC has an inordinate and wholly unnecessary power to issue, renew, and revoke licenses to the airwaves. Their key task should be to make sure that operations taking place on one frequency do not interfere with the transmission of signals on other frequencies. Those observable events are easily remedied with the same combination of damages and injunctions available in environmental cases.
The FCC should arrange to sell off frequencies to private owners to use, develop, and sell like any other resource. That process has already allowed the government to pocket a fair piece of change in dealing with many broadband licenses. It could also rationalize and improve the operation of the broadcast licenses for radio, television, and other consumer services at a fraction of the price it now takes to run the current system. As Friedrich Hayek noted long ago in The Road to Serfdom, the function of government is to organize the traffic flow, not to determine the composition of the traffic.
The scandal at the IRS teaches a larger lesson for the overall operation of the administrative state. The best way to control the twin risks of discretion and delay is to strip administrative agencies of as much of their discretionary power as is humanly possible. Each area has its own twists, and some discretion on enforcement issues will always remain. But the larger goal should be clear: an efficient administrative state that does not incentivize discretionary bureaucratic delay. The time to start on major reform efforts is now. Here is one crisis that should not go to waste.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 20:49:33
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
Ontario
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It will never happen, first reason is the populace generally trusts the goals of the government more than that of private firms. Secondly, the problem of setting up a realistic monitoring service and effective disincentives is huge. Thirdly, the government hates giving up powers that it already has.
The last thing is that the removal of government approval and intervention, especially in the areas of drugs, would lead to an even more corporate control over one's life and an almost assured increase in litigousness.
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DCDA:90-S++G+++MB++I+Pw40k98-D+++A+++/areWD007R++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 21:01:48
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Unfortunately I think this is a natural side of effect of we, as a populace, deciding to weaken to 10th amendment over the years.
This is the society we have decided we want, with a strong federal government. We like to pretend that we don't, of course, but in practice we as a majority reliably vote for those who will do so at every level.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/21 21:02:40
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 21:12:17
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:Unfortunately I think this is a natural side of effect of we, as a populace, deciding to weaken to 10th amendment over the years.
This is the society we have decided we want, with a strong federal government. We like to pretend that we don't, of course, but in practice we as a majority reliably vote for those who will do so at every level.
I agree with that... I'm just pondering if the natural pull of Strong Federal Government vs. 10th Amendment States Rights would ever fluctuate? It'll probably be a generational "thing" now that I think about it.
I mean... this is a multi-faceted issue.
Do we dial back these "Permit Power" and allow the states/businesses/consumer drive these things?
Do we encourage Congress to provide better oversight?
I think this issue is the proverbial pendulum... how far do we want it to go?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 21:36:43
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I don't know about the other questions, but definitely a strong yes on this. I think it's the natural inclination for the Executive to overreach, and the people, via Congress, must be vigilant in checking this. The executive is a unique branch in that some of the powers invested in it are flexible to allow for exigent circumstances... which is well and proper. However, those same powers also are the most vulnerable to abuse, imo.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 21:54:06
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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I'm going to say yes on this. If the Federal government is becoming more powerful, so too should the mechanisms that hold it accountable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 22:14:28
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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One step in the right direction imo would be requiring any new legislation to have a sunset clause.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 22:42:22
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ouze wrote:One step in the right direction imo would be requiring any new legislation to have a sunset clause.
It is good in one respect that it lapses after X amount of time, but there was legislation like that in Northern Ireland and for the most part it was just a rubber stamping exercise.
There does need to be a balance;
Increased power without the accompanying oversight = increased chance for corruption
Increased power with disproportionate oversight = over-regulation and bureaucracy becoming even slower
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 22:42:33
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I'm going to say yes on this. If the Federal government is becoming more powerful, so too should the mechanisms that hold it accountable.
I agree up to a point... the problem I see with this is that there will be times (as in '08 to '10) that a single party will hold majorities in both house and WH.
Honestly though, I don't know how to mitigate that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ouze wrote:One step in the right direction imo would be requiring any new legislation to have a sunset clause.
Ya know what... I like this.
That way, said law would be "campaign issue" every time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/21 22:43:24
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 22:57:56
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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whembly wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I'm going to say yes on this. If the Federal government is becoming more powerful, so too should the mechanisms that hold it accountable.
I agree up to a point... the problem I see with this is that there will be times (as in '08 to '10) that a single party will hold majorities in both house and WH.
Honestly though, I don't know how to mitigate that.
Neither do I. Before the IRS scandal you could have made the argument for an independent body, maybe you still could if this oversight body had its own elected representatives instead of appointees and career bureaucrats.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 23:44:20
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: Ouze wrote:One step in the right direction imo would be requiring any new legislation to have a sunset clause.
It is good in one respect that it lapses after X amount of time, but there was legislation like that in Northern Ireland and for the most part it was just a rubber stamping exercise.
I don't know much about how the Irish government worked, but was it as relentlessly partisan and polarised as ours is now?
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 23:52:09
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ouze wrote:I don't know much about how the Irish government worked, but was it as relentlessly partisan and polarised as ours is now?
It was the UK government. I believe it was one of the emergency provisions concerning the Troubles (might have been trial without a jury, I don't exactly recall). The Westminster government passed the legislation promising that it would be debated in full every year. Instead it was just voted on, and passed, with almost no discussion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 23:55:57
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Ouze wrote: I don't know about the other questions, but definitely a strong yes on this. I think it's the natural inclination for the Executive to overreach, and the people, via Congress, must be vigilant in checking this. The executive is a unique branch in that some of the powers invested in it are flexible to allow for exigent circumstances... which is well and proper. However, those same powers also are the most vulnerable to abuse, imo.
It's also a natural inclination for congress to overreach as well. Especially state congresses. The worst abuses of government power over the course of America's history have largely been state and local governments from my view.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/21 23:56:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 00:21:12
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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But those are also the ones that people have the most direct influence over, since while lobbying is present, it's not quite slanted to the degree it is at the federal level - if people aren't voting out the legislatures that pass these abuses, then by definition it's what the people want (right?)
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 00:26:46
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Ouze wrote:But those are also the ones that people have the most direct influence over
And that says a number of bad things about majority rule then, now doesn't it?
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 03:33:01
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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While there is a problem with the highly subjective nature of the powers given to various Federal Agencies, the article is proposing some moonbat solutions.
I mean, the answer to the FDA's long drug testing process is to just have stage one trials, then let people and their doctors decide if its worth taking a punt on the new drug (never mind that doctor's get their information from those stage two and three trials...) And their answer to the EPA is to just let people do whatever, and then have the EPA step in only when a clear problem occurs - which is perhaps the worst possible result of all (you wonder if the author has ever heard of legislative uncertainty*)
I think the balls to the wall insanity of the solutions offered up by the author actually show why subjectivity is, basically, unavoidable in this kind of work. The simple fact is that you cannot write legislation that perfectly captures the complexity of most of these things (the author even recognises that, with something as relatively simple as a not-for-profit). The law can give clear guidelines, but ultimately the decision will rest on an internal governmental process, and therefore likely the judgement call of one or more people.
That doesn't mean that we just have to accept that the bureaucracy is there to rule our lives. It means that we do have to protect is open government and effective monitoring. Ultimately it is not good but still hardly dire that politically motivated group suffered partisan treatment at the hands of a government agency. In a country of 300 million that kind of thing is going to happen from time to time. What is unacceptable is that it was allowed to happen multiple times, over a fairly long period of time. The solution to that is monitoring - we should be able to know easily how many applications were rejected by the IRS and why they were rejected. Have that kind of simple transperancy for all government agencies and you have some kind of solution.
*Legislative uncertainty describes the situation where a business is made more risky by the threat of government rules. So that might be okay with something in January, and you pile $10 million in to a new investment, and then in February government changes the rules and you have to stop work altogether and write off your $10 million, or accept a much lower rate of return. In this case, the idea that the EPA gives you your okay first up, so you know where you stand legally is a big fething deal and lets companies operate with some level of certainty. The alternative, largely the system we moved away from, had companies investing in new projects not knowing if environmental agencies - it wasn't a good way to operate, but understandable at the time, given these environmental agencies were a new thing and we hadn't figured out how they might best work. To hear some wanting to return to that... well it's moonbat crazypants stuff.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 14:32:37
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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While the author's "remedy" seems excessive to even me... (although, I do think things like FCC, FDA, EPA are over-regulating things... but, I don't want them disbanded).
The thrust of his post is what I wanted to talk about. The government's "Permit Power".
Let's take the IRS department.
The problem is that the IRS "Permit Power" is a perversely complex regulatory framework that gives the IRS enormous discretionary power to discriminate and intimidate. Whereas it's sole function really should be to simply collect taxes based on an easily knowable formula.
In it's current state, the IRS "can" be used as an un-American weapon, particularly when it is controlled by a will-to-power administration.
So, can we be assured that Congressional Oversight is enough? My take... I'm not so sure anymore. Congress really can't do anything major to said department unless it's proven some laws were broken. The only thing that Congress *could* do, is maybe reduce that department's budget via the Power-of-the-Purse. But, is that the right way to address these sorts of issues?
Or, do we start having a conversation about what role/function the IRS (or any government entity for that matter) should have and adjust them accordingly?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 03:41:25
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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whembly wrote:The thrust of his post is what I wanted to talk about. The government's "Permit Power".
Let's take the IRS department.
The problem is that the IRS "Permit Power" is a perversely complex regulatory framework that gives the IRS enormous discretionary power to discriminate and intimidate. Whereas it's sole function really should be to simply collect taxes based on an easily knowable formula.
Yeah, and that's the point I was making - that discretionary power has to be there, because there is simply a hell of a lot of subjectivity in trying to apply broad tax principles to indvidiaul circumstances.
This easily knowable formula you're asking for can't exist. I mean, the classic example given in tax classes is of a person selling a piece of land - pretty obviously the profit is capital gains, right? Because he had an asset, and now he's selling it for more... that's capital gains. But what if he regularly sell parcels of land, like a couple of every month, and basically his business is to buy large parcels of land, break them in to smaller parcels and sell them off at a profit? At what point does it stop being capital gains and start being regular income?
You can't just put in a formula and take that kind of subjectivity out of the system.
As such, the only real answer is to improve the oversight of that body. Ensure they regularly provide useful information on the scope of their decision making, and are openly accountable for decisions they make.
In it's current state, the IRS "can" be used as an un-American weapon, particularly when it is controlled by a will-to-power administration.
So, can we be assured that Congressional Oversight is enough? My take... I'm not so sure anymore. Congress really can't do anything major to said department unless it's proven some laws were broken.
First up, it isn't just about congressional oversight, but oversight by the country as a whole. The IRS, like any organisation, needs to be transparent to the population as a whole.
Second up, it isn't just about crime. As we can see in this IRS scandal, simply revealing the truth of what is happening has the power to make stuff happen, long before any court gets dragged in to the process. No president and congressman will just sit there while evidence of poor conduct is made public, they will fire people and they will drive through reform. The problem, instead, is when poor practice goes undetected.
Transperancy is the key, and long term, I suspect they may be the thing that has been most disappointing about the Obama administration.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 03:48:37
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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sebster wrote: whembly wrote:The thrust of his post is what I wanted to talk about. The government's "Permit Power".
Let's take the IRS department.
The problem is that the IRS "Permit Power" is a perversely complex regulatory framework that gives the IRS enormous discretionary power to discriminate and intimidate. Whereas it's sole function really should be to simply collect taxes based on an easily knowable formula.
Yeah, and that's the point I was making - that discretionary power has to be there, because there is simply a hell of a lot of subjectivity in trying to apply broad tax principles to indvidiaul circumstances.
This easily knowable formula you're asking for can't exist. I mean, the classic example given in tax classes is of a person selling a piece of land - pretty obviously the profit is capital gains, right? Because he had an asset, and now he's selling it for more... that's capital gains. But what if he regularly sell parcels of land, like a couple of every month, and basically his business is to buy large parcels of land, break them in to smaller parcels and sell them off at a profit? At what point does it stop being capital gains and start being regular income?
You can't just put in a formula and take that kind of subjectivity out of the system.
As such, the only real answer is to improve the oversight of that body. Ensure they regularly provide useful information on the scope of their decision making, and are openly accountable for decisions they make.
Yeah... good points. I'd like to add that I'm sure there are opportunity to simplify the tax codes/regulation.
In it's current state, the IRS "can" be used as an un-American weapon, particularly when it is controlled by a will-to-power administration.
So, can we be assured that Congressional Oversight is enough? My take... I'm not so sure anymore. Congress really can't do anything major to said department unless it's proven some laws were broken.
First up, it isn't just about congressional oversight, but oversight by the country as a whole. The IRS, like any organisation, needs to be transparent to the population as a whole.
Second up, it isn't just about crime. As we can see in this IRS scandal, simply revealing the truth of what is happening has the power to make stuff happen, long before any court gets dragged in to the process. No president and congressman will just sit there while evidence of poor conduct is made public, they will fire people and they will drive through reform. The problem, instead, is when poor practice goes undetected.
Yeah, I see your point. Can't argue this...
Transperancy is the key, and long term, I suspect they may be the thing that has been most disappointing about the Obama administration.
But, I thought they were going to be the most transparent administrations evah! (I know I'm poking the angry bear there!)
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 04:49:25
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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whembly wrote:Yeah... good points. I'd like to add that I'm sure there are opportunity to simplify the tax codes/regulation.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, basically the the US tax code exists as a large collection of special rules. There is no underlying basic logic underpinning the whole thing. Most other developed countries at some point in the last 50 odd years put in place whole system tax reform that put in place basic, underpinning logic. The US, instead, has just kept tinkering with the old system, adding and taking away various bits of special law.
For the US this means a lot more weirdness, loopholes, and a lot more time spent filling out a tax return than ought to be the case.
But, I thought they were going to be the most transparent administrations evah! (I know I'm poking the angry bear there!)
I agree completely. They claimed they were going to be the most transparent, and they most certainly are not.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 06:08:58
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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Just a question who is the most transparent administration in the history of the US? And also wouldn't today's media obsessed culture help make things somewhat more transparent anyways?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 06:43:26
Subject: Re:Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Cheesecat wrote:Just a question who is the most transparent administration in the history of the US?
That's a big question. Might be worth researching.
And also wouldn't today's media obsessed culture help make things somewhat more transparent anyways?
There's a lot of media reporting, but most of it is just reporting what someone else is saying. So you get reporters giving stories that 'a politician said this, and then a pundit responded with this', or for non-political news just straight out copying press releases.
This is because there's less and less money in the budget of news rooms every year. And that means the stuff that's really expensive, investigative journalism, gets rarer and rarer. And at the same time the press management budgets of every poltiical office and every corporation gets bigger and bigger...
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 14:23:39
Subject: Real Lesson of the Scandals: Reduce or Revoke the "Permit Power"
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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whembly wrote:Transperancy is the key, and long term, I suspect they may be the thing that has been most disappointing about the Obama administration.
But, I thought they were going to be the most transparent administrations evah! (I know I'm poking the angry bear there!)
If these scandals show Administration involvement then they may be very transparent, in fact they could be as transparent as the Emperor's new clothes
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