Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Three, because if you have a thousand billion, you have a trillion... you also have a thousand billion. Numbers are fun that way.
Four, A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people.

Three, indeed they are.

Four, heh. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I must have a better grasp of the fun than you do eh? Read the 5th edition rulebook. Read lexicanum, or alternatively, simply use some common sense, a few billion on a HIVE world? So, less than we currently have on our not grimdark, and entirely not overcrowded, pleasant green earth?

Suffering from tongue in cheek syndrome? he said A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people
Emphasis on single Hive.
Read thoroughly before berating people on their grasp of the in-game universe. More often than not it makes YOU look like the fool.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Three, because if you have a thousand billion, you have a trillion... you also have a thousand billion. Numbers are fun that way.
Four, A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people.

Three, indeed they are.

Four, heh. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I must have a better grasp of the fun than you do eh? Read the 5th edition rulebook. Read lexicanum, or alternatively, simply use some common sense, a few billion on a HIVE world? So, less than we currently have on our not grimdark, and entirely not overcrowded, pleasant green earth?

Suffering from tongue in cheek syndrome? he said A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people
Emphasis on single Hive.
Read thoroughly before berating people on their grasp of the in-game universe. More often than not it makes YOU look like the fool.

What on earth are you talking about?

Read our conversation, I said that Hive worlds have hundreds of billions of people on them, he said they didn't.

If he was saying they did have hundreds of billions of people on, because they actually contain several hives (singular) each consisting of billions, then he wouldn't be disagreeing with me in the first place now would he?

 mattyrm wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Three, because if you have a thousand billion, you have a trillion... you also have a thousand billion. Numbers are fun that way.
Four, A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people.

Three, indeed they are.

Four, heh. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I must have a better grasp of the fun than you do eh? Read the 5th edition rulebook. Read lexicanum, or alternatively, simply use some common sense, a few billion on a HIVE world? So, less than we currently have on our not grimdark, and entirely not overcrowded, pleasant green earth?

Suffering from tongue in cheek syndrome? he said A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people
Emphasis on single Hive.
Read thoroughly before berating people on their grasp of the in-game universe. More often than not it makes YOU look like the fool.

What on earth are you talking about?

Read our conversation, I said that Hive worlds have hundreds of billions of people on them, he said they didn't.

If he was saying they did have hundreds of billions of people on, because they actually contain several hives (singular) each consisting of billions, then he wouldn't be disagreeing with me in the first place now would he?

Uhhh...

 Psienesis wrote:

Four, most Hives don't contain 300 billion people. A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people. This will vary by Hive and by the world on which it sits. Some Hive Worlds have multiple Hive Cities on them.

Most HIVES don't contain 300 billion people. Hives. Singular. As in a single Hive. Not a Hive world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mattyrm wrote:

Heres another statistic for you, why do they never go past the billions? They always say "billions of guardsmen" and "billions of tyranids" when current fluff stated that hives contain around 300 billion human beings, and there are a million inhabited worlds, so what.. tens of thousands of hives?

And here's what YOU said. Again, Hives. No mention of Hive-worlds.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Three, because if you have a thousand billion, you have a trillion... you also have a thousand billion. Numbers are fun that way.
Four, A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people.

Three, indeed they are.

Four, heh. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I must have a better grasp of the fun than you do eh? Read the 5th edition rulebook. Read lexicanum, or alternatively, simply use some common sense, a few billion on a HIVE world? So, less than we currently have on our not grimdark, and entirely not overcrowded, pleasant green earth?

Suffering from tongue in cheek syndrome? he said A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people
Emphasis on single Hive.
Read thoroughly before berating people on their grasp of the in-game universe. More often than not it makes YOU look like the fool.

What on earth are you talking about?

Read our conversation, I said that Hive worlds have hundreds of billions of people on them, he said they didn't.

If he was saying they did have hundreds of billions of people on, because they actually contain several hives (singular) each consisting of billions, then he wouldn't be disagreeing with me in the first place now would he?

Uhhh...

 Psienesis wrote:

Four, most Hives don't contain 300 billion people. A single Hive might have anywhere from several hundred million to several billion people. This will vary by Hive and by the world on which it sits. Some Hive Worlds have multiple Hive Cities on them.

Most HIVES don't contain 300 billion people. Hives. Singular. As in a single Hive. Not a Hive world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mattyrm wrote:

Heres another statistic for you, why do they never go past the billions? They always say "billions of guardsmen" and "billions of tyranids" when current fluff stated that hives contain around 300 billion human beings, and there are a million inhabited worlds, so what.. tens of thousands of hives?

And here's what YOU said. Again, Hives. No mention of Hive-worlds.

I was clearly talking about hives having 300 billion people on them, clearly and obviously that is the planet and not a building, because the fluff states that there are hundreds of billions on the planets, not in each individual hive.

Once again, read the thread. I was saying that hives had hundreds of billions of people on them, he was saying they didn't. Regardless of whether we are talking about buildings or planets, I was right, and he was wrong, because even if a hive planet has "several" hive buildings with "several" billion people in them, it still wouldn't number past what? 10-15 billion?

Ergo, wrong information.

Iracundus wrote the correct figures, go read them. If a hive world has entire continents devoted to enormous buildings filled with people, without even needing to read any further on the matter, common sense dictates that there are going to be literally hundreds of billions of people inhabiting them.

Regardless, its become somewhat tedious debating the point, replace add the word planet to hive or don't add it, if he was agreeing with my (correct) numbers, then he wouldn't be arguing with me in the first place would he?

If you had said hive world he wouldn't have had any reason to say that there are only hundreds of millions to a few billion people per hive. Had you said hive world you would have been providing correct numbers. Had you said hive world it would be on a hive world scale, not a hive scale, which are very different things. Now you are being condescending about your own mistakes, which he clearly interpreted as the rest of us had, whereas only you knew your intentions.
and several billion could be anywhere from 2-(depends on your interpretation) not just 3 or four. There are only several billion people on our planet, and that's what, 8 billion? meaning if there are 8 billion people on the average hive that makes an average of 38 hives on an entire world. And hives are not a standard size, and vary in both population and sizes.

Condescending? I was replying to a condescending "number are fun don't you know" type of post followed by a condescending "look how foolish you are" retort, when nothing I typed was foolish or incorrect because the numbers were sound.

My use of "hives" was obviously referring to planets and not buildings by the figures involved, you are claiming you thought that my use of the term "hives" meant individual hive cities, so that you can claim I made a mistake, but I didn't, it was obvious I was talking about "hives" in planetary terms, because if individual cities had 300 billion in, then a planet with several of them on would then contain trillions.

But I digress, the issue is now boring for me, you, and everyone reading, so lets draw a line under the issue. The underlying point I was making was not about the number of humans in our fictional galaxy, but that the sheer size of a galaxy seems to make it an absurd suggestion that the nids could actually consume a whole one, let alone 13 or what have you.

Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, and then they would contact the rest, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

 mattyrm wrote:


Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, physically telling the rest that they found another galaxy to scran, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Regarding this, as the fluff never progresses, it has been stated that the vast majority of the Tyranids are still outside the Galaxy, not just the few hive-fleets that have entered the fluff, meaning there could indeed be untold trillions or more of them.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:


Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, physically telling the rest that they found another galaxy to scran, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Regarding this, as the fluff never progresses, it has been stated that the vast majority of the Tyranids are still outside the Galaxy, not just the few hive-fleets that have entered the fluff, meaning there could indeed be untold trillions or more of them.

Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

Hive = a single city. Which could only have a few billion at most.

Now a Hive World will have multiple Hive Cities, anywhere from two or three to the entire planet being covered(like Terra)

According to the 5th edition rulebook. The Hive World Minea has a population of 154 billion. Ichar IV has a population of 500 billion. Coronis Agathon has 120 billion. and Scintilla has 25 billion.

 mattyrm wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:


Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, physically telling the rest that they found another galaxy to scran, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Regarding this, as the fluff never progresses, it has been stated that the vast majority of the Tyranids are still outside the Galaxy, not just the few hive-fleets that have entered the fluff, meaning there could indeed be untold trillions or more of them.

Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

And the Tyranid species is mind bendingly vast and old. The Tyranids are possibly older than even the Old Ones and Necrons at several billion years of age. Given how quickly they can go through our galaxy, the only reason why twelve is a minimum (at their present rate, they could have gone through hundreds of thousands) given their looooong time in the universe would be traveling in between galaxies.

Ultimately the point of the Tyranids is that they are a force who outnumbers every last living thing in our galaxy and that only if absolutely everyone puts aside their differences and undergoes crippling levels of militarization will the galaxy stand even the smallest chance of survival when the full force arrives. Yes that means the Orks, Necrons, Chaos, Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, and every minor faction would have to band as one and arm absolutely everyone they can if they want to have even a small chance to survive. This is stated in the foreword of the Tyranid codex.

No one else poses a threat of this magnitude. Everyone else with a shot of conquering the galaxy is split by factionalism (Necrons, Chaos, Orks, even Abaddon, Szarekh, and Ghazghkull can't really get them to stop fighting themselves as a whole) or is already at the absolute end of their logistical rope (the Imperium).

 mattyrm wrote:
Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

Not to mention the even more mindbendingly colossal distances between them... The tyranids don't seem to have any FTL capability so it would take them literally millions of years to cross from one galaxy to the next. All that would reach the target galaxy would be dead hulks and crews long since turned into frozen dust.

Spetulhu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

Not to mention the even more mindbendingly colossal distances between them... The tyranids don't seem to have any FTL capability so it would take them literally millions of years to cross from one galaxy to the next. All that would reach the target galaxy would be dead hulks and crews long since turned into frozen dust.

Umm...yes the Tyranids *explicitly* have FTL abilities. It's actually more reliable than warp travel and causes natural disasters on target planets. It's a little slower than warp travel on average, but it has none of the hiccups and complexities involved with warp travel. Essentially specialized Tyranid ships create a massive gravity beam that locks onto a gravitational signal, typically one corresponding to a beacon set up by a genestealer cult, then the hive fleet shoots towards that planet in formation.

Given that Hive Fleet Kraken reached the center of the galaxy within a few years of it's arrival, Tyranid FTL is *plenty* fast.

 Kain wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:


Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, physically telling the rest that they found another galaxy to scran, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Regarding this, as the fluff never progresses, it has been stated that the vast majority of the Tyranids are still outside the Galaxy, not just the few hive-fleets that have entered the fluff, meaning there could indeed be untold trillions or more of them.

Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

And the Tyranid species is mind bendingly vast and old. The Tyranids are possibly older than even the Old Ones and Necrons at several billion years of age. Given how quickly they can go through our galaxy, the only reason why twelve is a minimum (at their present rate, they could have gone through hundreds of thousands) given their looooong time in the universe would be traveling in between galaxies.

Ultimately the point of the Tyranids is that they are a force who outnumbers every last living thing in our galaxy and that only if absolutely everyone puts aside their differences and undergoes crippling levels of militarization will the galaxy stand even the smallest chance of survival when the full force arrives. Yes that means the Orks, Necrons, Chaos, Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, and every minor faction would have to band as one and arm absolutely everyone they can if they want to have even a small chance to survive. This is stated in the foreword of the Tyranid codex.

No one else poses a threat of this magnitude. Everyone else with a shot of conquering the galaxy is split by factionalism (Necrons, Chaos, Orks, even Abaddon, Szarekh, and Ghazghkull can't really get them to stop fighting themselves as a whole) or is already at the absolute end of their logistical rope (the Imperium).

Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there, they probably are the biggest threat to the imperium thanks to their numbers, although seeing as GW have never really told us there is no way to know for sure..

I'm just saying I think its beyond the realms of possibility that they could eat galaxies, as many people have mentioned, there are just too many factors that make the whole idea silly. A galaxy is just too large for anything that could conceivably be classed as mortal to actually consume regardless of their numbers. I mean, 3 trillion planets and countless sextillions of miles? How many of them would there need to be!?

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:


Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, physically telling the rest that they found another galaxy to scran, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Regarding this, as the fluff never progresses, it has been stated that the vast majority of the Tyranids are still outside the Galaxy, not just the few hive-fleets that have entered the fluff, meaning there could indeed be untold trillions or more of them.

Absolutely, I was just saying, in my opinion it seems a bit daft to say they can eat galaxies, GW can say what they like and thats how it is cos its their fluff, I'm was just saying it seems a bit silly to me because galaxies are mind bendingly colossal!

And the Tyranid species is mind bendingly vast and old. The Tyranids are possibly older than even the Old Ones and Necrons at several billion years of age. Given how quickly they can go through our galaxy, the only reason why twelve is a minimum (at their present rate, they could have gone through hundreds of thousands) given their looooong time in the universe would be traveling in between galaxies.

Ultimately the point of the Tyranids is that they are a force who outnumbers every last living thing in our galaxy and that only if absolutely everyone puts aside their differences and undergoes crippling levels of militarization will the galaxy stand even the smallest chance of survival when the full force arrives. Yes that means the Orks, Necrons, Chaos, Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, and every minor faction would have to band as one and arm absolutely everyone they can if they want to have even a small chance to survive. This is stated in the foreword of the Tyranid codex.

No one else poses a threat of this magnitude. Everyone else with a shot of conquering the galaxy is split by factionalism (Necrons, Chaos, Orks, even Abaddon, Szarekh, and Ghazghkull can't really get them to stop fighting themselves as a whole) or is already at the absolute end of their logistical rope (the Imperium).

Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there, they probably are the biggest threat to the imperium thanks to their numbers, although seeing as GW have never really told us there is no way to know for sure..

I'm just saying I think its beyond the realms of possibility that they could eat galaxies, as many people have mentioned, there are just too many factors that make the whole idea silly. A galaxy is just too large for anything that could conceivably be classed as mortal to actually consume regardless of their numbers. I mean, 3 trillion planets and countless sextillions of miles? How many of them would there need to be!?

Not really all that many with the way they operate. Theres the norn queen on a space-faring ship (forgetting the imperial name for it) who spawns the lesser gribblies. that's it. During space travel they are liquefied for "fuel" and when the ship reaches a nutrient-dense world it uses the last of the "Fuel" to make all the gribblies they can and start to tyrannoform the planet. After all defences are removed they send out rippers, who eat everything that the nids can use as "fuel" and jump into the nearest digestion pool, then get sucked up a giant space straw to the overhanging ship. once all life is gone the ship moves to the next. So theres never more griblies made than the number It takes to overrun the planet. And they eat their dead so they don't really lose anything if there was heavy resistance on the planet, unless they are wiped out there will always be more fuel for the ship.

 mattyrm wrote:
Galaxies are simply too vast for a mind to easily comprehend, and if there were enough nids to eat one, you wouldn't simple get a few billion rocking up into the milky way and getting beaten by the Ultramarines, you would get literally trillions of them turning up, and then they would contact the rest, and then so many would turn up, they would be everywhere all at once!

Gw seems to agree with you.

Thus far, only their vanguard has reached this galaxy, the greater mass is still on its way. And the Hive Mind hungers...

So yes, there are far, far more Tyranids than we've encountered so far. What has reached the Milky Way so far could be likened to how Tyranids find prey worlds themselves - send out vanguards (GW's exact words for the current hive fleets) and test to see if there's life worth consuming.

And it appears there is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Not really all that many with the way they operate. Theres the norn queen on a space-faring ship (forgetting the imperial name for it) who spawns the lesser gribblies. that's it. During space travel they are liquefied for "fuel"

Not all - at the very least, Tervigons and Termagants are kept as 'wardens' of the hibernating ships.

There was something in the old Eldar codex IIRC. About outcasts joining fleets going to investigate 'the unexplored vistas of open space'. Some did return with treasures 'n sht.