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Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 uk_crow wrote:
I'm talking about this in relation to the so called war on terror, why can't they join stop the war coalition? I'm talking about how the overwhelming majority of this country can protest peacefully and democratically, whilst whenever a perceived slight is made against Islam. Eg Dutch cartoon of Muhammad and the Innocence of Muslims films, there are worldwide protests over something so trivial. which resulted in the case of the Innocence of Muslim protests resulted in over 50 deaths. All I want is the answer to that question? What is wrong with asking that?



Perhaps it is because our country and Sweden haven't been invaded by a coalition of foreign powers , working on false evidence, who occupied the countries for nearly a decade and directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands of people.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 uk_crow wrote:
I'm talking about this in relation to the so called war on terror, why can't they join stop the war coalition? I'm talking about how the overwhelming majority of this country can protest peacefully and democratically, whilst whenever a perceived slight is made against Islam. Eg Dutch cartoon of Muhammad and the Innocence of Muslims films, there are worldwide protests over something so trivial. which resulted in the case of the Innocence of Muslim protests resulted in over 50 deaths. All I want is the answer to that question? What is wrong with asking that?



Perhaps it is because our country and Sweden haven't been invaded by a coalition of foreign powers , working on false evidence, who occupied the countries for nearly a decade and directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands of people.



Blaming America for all of this already?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





 djones520 wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 uk_crow wrote:
I'm talking about this in relation to the so called war on terror, why can't they join stop the war coalition? I'm talking about how the overwhelming majority of this country can protest peacefully and democratically, whilst whenever a perceived slight is made against Islam. Eg Dutch cartoon of Muhammad and the Innocence of Muslims films, there are worldwide protests over something so trivial. which resulted in the case of the Innocence of Muslim protests resulted in over 50 deaths. All I want is the answer to that question? What is wrong with asking that?



Perhaps it is because our country and Sweden haven't been invaded by a coalition of foreign powers , working on false evidence, who occupied the countries for nearly a decade and directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands of people.



Blaming America for all of this already?


Last time I checked America wasn't a coalition of foreign powers, and the false evidence came from an Iraqi and was compiled by the Brits.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 djones520 wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 uk_crow wrote:
I'm talking about this in relation to the so called war on terror, why can't they join stop the war coalition? I'm talking about how the overwhelming majority of this country can protest peacefully and democratically, whilst whenever a perceived slight is made against Islam. Eg Dutch cartoon of Muhammad and the Innocence of Muslims films, there are worldwide protests over something so trivial. which resulted in the case of the Innocence of Muslim protests resulted in over 50 deaths. All I want is the answer to that question? What is wrong with asking that?



Perhaps it is because our country and Sweden haven't been invaded by a coalition of foreign powers , working on false evidence, who occupied the countries for nearly a decade and directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands of people.



Blaming America for all of this already?


No. I'm just saying that an important difference between the western population and the Islamic one is that we haven't experienced an invasion and occupation recently.

It does tend to influence people's attitudes.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 uk_crow wrote:
I'm talking about this in relation to the so called war on terror, why can't they join stop the war coalition? I'm talking about how the overwhelming majority of this country can protest peacefully and democratically, whilst whenever a perceived slight is made against Islam. Eg Dutch cartoon of Muhammad and the Innocence of Muslims films, there are worldwide protests over something so trivial. which resulted in the case of the Innocence of Muslim protests resulted in over 50 deaths. All I want is the answer to that question? What is wrong with asking that?



Perhaps it is because our country and Sweden haven't been invaded by a coalition of foreign powers , working on false evidence, who occupied the countries for nearly a decade and directly or indirectly killed hundreds of thousands of people.



Blaming America for all of this already?


No. I'm just saying that an important difference between the western population and the Islamic one is that we haven't experienced an invasion and occupation recently.

It does tend to influence people's attitudes.



Well... by all accounts these people were born as British citizens, so... your point is?

And when did we invade Dagestan? Or Saudi Arabia? Etc...

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Think back to when the Twin Towers were attacked. Didn't you burn with anger and a desire for revenge on the perpetrators?

You don't now, and you aren't rioting in the streets or seeking for Muslims to destroy. (I hope!)

Some Muslims have that feeling of anger, even though it is from our point of view misguided, and put it into this kind of action.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Oh... didn't know this...

Evidently they had a gun(s) too.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-beheading-recap-live-updates-1904508
Eyewitness Joe Tallant, 20, saw one man holding a gun and a knife, and another holding two knives.

That's a big difference... but they wanted to send a statement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 16:36:27


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Kilkrazy is talking sense.
Nobody "deserves" to get murdered, but at the same time, soldiers go "over there" and kill people, and have been doing so for a decade. If they can "come over here" and do the same, I don't think it's that hard to understand the motivation. Even if "coming over here" is by methods like radicalising idiotic British youths.

As for the whole "Wargh, Muslims!" thing, I bet the IRA killed a lot more people with terrorist acts in the UK than any muslims but I don't see many people claiming that Catholicism is a religion that engenders terrorism or claiming that all Irish people secretly have the seed of terrorism in their hearts. Is that because of familiarity combined with cultural and racial similarity? If you're a british person with no problem with Irish Catholics, it's worth thinking about why your perception of Muslims might be different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 17:33:41


   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Da Boss wrote:
As for the whole "Wargh, Muslims!" thing, I bet the IRA killed a lot more people with terrorist acts in the UK than any muslims but I don't see many people claiming that Catholicism is a religion that engenders terrorism or claiming that all Irish people secretly have the seed of terrorism in their hearts. Is that because of familiarity combined with cultural and racial similarity? If you're a british person with no problem with Irish Catholics, it's worth thinking about why your perception of Muslims might be different.

Or maybe it was because the IRA didn't often make religious statements, or acknowledge religion as a major motivation? Their goal was politically, not theologically, driven (not that it makes what they did right)

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Splitting hairs, but perhaps a hair worth splitting.

   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Da Boss wrote:
Splitting hairs, but perhaps a hair worth splitting.


I don't know if I'd say splitting hairs. But it is the main difference between the two.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 djones520 wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Splitting hairs, but perhaps a hair worth splitting.


I don't know if I'd say splitting hairs. But it is the main difference between the two.

Thank you, you stole the words right from under my keyboard

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Well, it is a good point, but I think my point still has some validity to it, too.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

The what, the wut?

o.O

Troops advised not to wear uniform outside bases.

Unless order'ed not too... feth that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 17:48:57


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Da Boss wrote:
Well, it is a good point, but I think my point still has some validity to it, too.


Bar the fact that one is a theologically driven terrorist group, whereas the other is politically driven.
Also, you left out the Free Presbyterian Church which; "For many outside the church, political and religious opposition to the Roman Catholic Church, considered by the Free Presbyterians to be a Protestant Reformation principle, represents the single most distinctive characteristic of this denomination, not least because this is a distinctive characteristic of Ian Paisley's own theological outlook."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Presbyterian_Church_of_Ulster

And yes, a great many of them believe that being a Catholic is a mortal sin

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 17:50:43


 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Whembly: My brother used to have to get a "civilian" style haircut before coming home on leave and was advised to keep what he did for a living a secret when he was in the Royal Marines. My dopey sister told people anyhow, and he was given a lot of grief and had a few people start fights with him over it. The British armed forces generally have to be fairly careful about this sort of stuff, even at home. They've been dealing with domestic terrorism for a good long while now.

Edit: I'm aware of Paisley's lot, but again, I'm not seeing how it completely invalidates my point? The reaction to muslims is rooted in more than just a distaste for the religion, it is also encouraged by a (perfectly human and normal) distaste for the "other" that more familiar groups wouldn't engender. I am trying to point out that reflecting on that feeling and being aware of it can help to calm down the situation and prevent people getting angry at entire groups, which solves nothing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 17:54:58


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Da Boss wrote:
Whembly: My brother used to have to get a "civilian" style haircut before coming home on leave and was advised to keep what he did for a living a secret when he was in the Royal Marines. My dopey sister told people anyhow, and he was given a lot of grief and had a few people start fights with him over it. The British armed forces generally have to be fairly careful about this sort of stuff, even at home. They've been dealing with domestic terrorism for a good long while now.

Okay... I'm just a red-neck 'Murrican.

That stinks the high heavens man.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Think back to when the Twin Towers were attacked. Didn't you burn with anger and a desire for revenge on the perpetrators?

You don't now, and you aren't rioting in the streets or seeking for Muslims to destroy. (I hope!)

Some Muslims have that feeling of anger, even though it is from our point of view misguided, and put it into this kind of action.


Islam is a religion. The terrorists on 9/11 attacked a country. Not seeing where you're going with this.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

 whembly wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Whembly: My brother used to have to get a "civilian" style haircut before coming home on leave and was advised to keep what he did for a living a secret when he was in the Royal Marines. My dopey sister told people anyhow, and he was given a lot of grief and had a few people start fights with him over it. The British armed forces generally have to be fairly careful about this sort of stuff, even at home. They've been dealing with domestic terrorism for a good long while now.

Okay... I'm just a red-neck 'Murrican.

That stinks the high heavens man.


Shrug. Comes with the territory if you're an Irishman who decides to join the British army. We've plenty of songs about it

Edit: Btw, the point about radicalisation in prisons is a good one. Funny thing is, institutionally, these days, the UK is really really inclusive. It's one of the more impressive aspects of the system. Individuals are a bit xenophobic, but it's not an intolerant society on the whole at all. Perhaps we only notice the incidences of radicalisation and not those of normalisation?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 18:01:29


   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Da Boss wrote:
Edit: I'm aware of Paisley's lot, but again, I'm not seeing how it completely invalidates my point? The reaction to muslims is rooted in more than just a distaste for the religion, it is also encouraged by a (perfectly human and normal) distaste for the "other" that more familiar groups wouldn't engender. I am trying to point out that reflecting on that feeling and being aware of it can help to calm down the situation and prevent people getting angry at entire groups, which solves nothing.

Because it shows that even with similar cultural identity (leaving race out as Islam is a religion, not a race) people can preach hatred, not just against some "other" with a darker skin, different language and customs.

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Aha, with you now.

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Frazzled wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Think back to when the Twin Towers were attacked. Didn't you burn with anger and a desire for revenge on the perpetrators?

You don't now, and you aren't rioting in the streets or seeking for Muslims to destroy. (I hope!)

Some Muslims have that feeling of anger, even though it is from our point of view misguided, and put it into this kind of action.


Islam is a religion. The terrorists on 9/11 attacked a country. Not seeing where you're going with this.


Where I am going is that the terrorists had a motivation. They didn't just think, "We haven't got anything to do next weekend, so let's attack the USA for the lulz."

The motivation was not being muslims. There are a billion muslims in the world, including several million US citizens, and nearly two million British citizens. Almost none of them did these attacks.

If you blame all muslims for being muslims, you will alienate the ones who are on the same side as us.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Oberstleutnant





Back in the English morass

The victim has been named, Drummer Lee Rigby. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22644857

RegalPhantom wrote:
If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel







You know the thought that struck me as a Former member of the British Armed Forces...

"Those two culprits wouldn't have lived more than 1minute 30 seconds, if they had done that to an American Soldier in uniform, on the busy streets of a city in the United States of America" rather than than the 20mins the Media are quoting as the response time. Nevermind the Police all being routinely Armed, the Citizenry also having the right to bare Firearms, someone would have intervened and shot them. It wouldn't have saved the Soldier, but it would have stopped or limited the inhuman desecration of his body and spared the family the knowledge of what those animals did to him. Those two should never have been taken alive, and quite right to.

This was deliberately targeted illegal attack against a Lawful Combatant obeying the law in his own Country. Their normal rights can be waved as an Illegal Combatant.

This means we do not have to do anything, and may with no recourse or legal appeal execute said individuals.

"If civilians directly engage in hostilities, they are considered 'unlawful' or 'unprivileged' combatants or belligerents (the treaties of humanitarian law do not expressly contain these terms). They may be prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action"

If the culprits are UK Citizens - Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for treason in the UK has been life imprisonment.

I wish they had been killed, despite the argument against Martyrdom, it deny's months of Legal wrangling and the extra Media Coverage these dogs will get from a barbaric act.

Don't blame Islam, blame dicks who interpret it badly, just like the westboro baptist church doesn't represent Christianity these fools don't represent Islam.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/05/23 19:45:16


Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest! 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas


Don't blame Islam, blame dicks who interpret it badly, just like the westboro baptist church doesn't represent Christianity these fools don't represent Islam.



I like that.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Its the fact that its Islam which has allowed this to happen, would they have done this if they were not muslim?



This is from a couple pages back, but I wanted to make a brief comment: Religions, including Islam, don't "allow" things to happen. They aren't free agents that determine what people do or don't do. The responsibility lies with the people who made their own choices and perpetrated the attack, not on a collection of religious teachings which could be interpreted and focused on in a variety of ways.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Frazzled wrote:

Don't blame Islam, blame dicks who interpret it badly, just like the westboro baptist church doesn't represent Christianity these fools don't represent Islam.



I like that.

little nit pick here: Westboro folks don't butcher their opponents.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 mwnciboo wrote:
Don't blame Islam, blame dicks who interpret it badly, just like the westboro baptist church doesn't represent Christianity these fools don't represent Islam.
How many members of the Westborough Baptists have gone out and murdered someone in the name of Jesus? How many "badly interpreting Islam" dicks have murdered someone in the name of Mohammed or Allah? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the first question is "zero". So, please stop making apples & oranges comparisons to justify political correctness. Given all the incidents worldwide where Muslims (dicks or otherwise) are murdering others in the name of Islam, it cannot be considered the actions of a "fringe" element even if it the majority doesn't do it.


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 Breotan wrote:
 mwnciboo wrote:
Don't blame Islam, blame dicks who interpret it badly, just like the westboro baptist church doesn't represent Christianity these fools don't represent Islam.
How many members of the Westborough Baptists have gone out and murdered someone in the name of Jesus? How many "badly interpreting Islam" dicks have murdered someone in the name of Mohammed or Allah? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the first question is "zero". So, please stop making apples & oranges comparisons to justify political correctness. Given all the incidents worldwide where Muslims (dicks or otherwise) are murdering others in the name of Islam, it cannot be considered the actions of a "fringe" element even if it the majority doesn't do it.



It's not Westboro, but there are quite a few examples of militant Christians bombing abortion clinics and engaging in violence.

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Not to mention ethnically cleansing muslims in the Balkans, and so on.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
 
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