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So, what would happen if Terra fell?
I mean, destroyed. Maybe the Tyranids finally reach it, maybe an Eldar or Necron.. hell, Ork battlefleet manages to breach the defences and completely flatten Terra and its nearby planets.
What would the Imperium do? I don't know of any "backup planet" or second in command. Who would lead the Imperium? Would it be crippled, and collapse under disorganisation and struggles for power?

Golden throne goes bye-bye then the Imperium loses and meaningful FTL and Daemons start pouring through from the immaterium

That would possible lead to the destruction of the emperor therefore nothing holding back the warp. hell would break loose. The imperium would proably try and reclaim it or if not stay on mars

One thing for sure, Abaddon would throw a hissy fit that someone/thing beat him to it.

Another Eye of Terror would erupt, centered on Terra. Most every other faction would eventually fall themselves, being unable to compete with the immortal legions of Chaos.

I agree. While Imperium would probably shatter to tinier, more localised fragments (like Roman empire did) it still will be able to defend themselves. Creating a dozens smaller versions of astronomican will once more allow effective warp travel on more local level.
Chaos of course will grow to superpower's status, taking many Imperial worlds using chaos, created by the fall of Terra. On the other hand, it will mean that chaos might become a new punching bag in this galaxy due to their new-found exposure to the galaxy.

How would they create dozens of smaller versions of the Astronomican? They don't know how it works now, and they rely on the God-Emperor to direct it. Without Him, there's no Astronomican.

Local Warp travel is permitted because you generally know where you're going and where you're starting... in a sense, the Navigator can already see the destination, even if it's ten thousand light-years away, and so the ship can just hop over to it. When you're trying to go ten million light-years, though, you need a third point to triangulate from (the Astronomican, for example).

 Psienesis wrote:
How would they create dozens of smaller versions of the Astronomican? They don't know how it works now, and they rely on the God-Emperor to direct it. Without Him, there's no Astronomican.

Local Warp travel is permitted because you generally know where you're going and where you're starting... in a sense, the Navigator can already see the destination, even if it's ten thousand light-years away, and so the ship can just hop over to it. When you're trying to go ten million light-years, though, you need a third point to triangulate from (the Astronomican, for example).

Well, if the astronomican is a giant psychic beacon, perhaps it'd be possible to hook up multiple psykers together to create a smaller, weaker version. The breaking up of the Imperium would definitely result in the breaking up of the AdMech and without anyone to really enforce rules, someone is bound to get curious and experimental.

I'm pretty sure that I have read somewhere that miniature versions of astronomican are being established there Emperor's light cannot guide astropaths any longer. In any way, I cannot provide proof, that is just a rumor that I have heard.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
How would they create dozens of smaller versions of the Astronomican? They don't know how it works now, and they rely on the God-Emperor to direct it. Without Him, there's no Astronomican.

Local Warp travel is permitted because you generally know where you're going and where you're starting... in a sense, the Navigator can already see the destination, even if it's ten thousand light-years away, and so the ship can just hop over to it. When you're trying to go ten million light-years, though, you need a third point to triangulate from (the Astronomican, for example).

Well, if the astronomican is a giant psychic beacon, perhaps it'd be possible to hook up multiple psykers together to create a smaller, weaker version. The breaking up of the Imperium would definitely result in the breaking up of the AdMech and without anyone to really enforce rules, someone is bound to get curious and experimental.

On a long enough time-line, I can see that happening, but I don't think the loss of Terra will permit low-ranking AdMech scrubs to start getting creative and inventive enough to replace the Astronomican.... or anything else that Mars is directly responsible for. Losing the Solar System means losing Mars, and that means losing the AdMech... as well as the Grey Knights.

Desperation do wonders for humanity. Just shake those cyborgs enough and they might "share" some knowledge from their vaults with other forge-worlds. Only Omnissiah alone knows that ancient and apocalyptic weaponary have been rediscovered only to be hidden away again in the Mars.

People, you're forgetting something... ULTRAMAR, the Empire of 500 planets (or were 50... don't remember, though they were 500 IIRC). Better back up than that...

By the way, if Terra fall, the GT will be fethed up, then the Emprah could finally die and reincarnate or become a full God.

Oh yeah, it's strange but it seems like if the Emprah dies the Imperium could have a chance. You know, a God helping you beat the crap outta chaos or a new Emprah (which, mind you, is literally the Anathema of the Chaos Gods), a fuckawesome leader in term of combat and psy prowess.

So, yeah.

 Psienesis wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
How would they create dozens of smaller versions of the Astronomican? They don't know how it works now, and they rely on the God-Emperor to direct it. Without Him, there's no Astronomican.

Local Warp travel is permitted because you generally know where you're going and where you're starting... in a sense, the Navigator can already see the destination, even if it's ten thousand light-years away, and so the ship can just hop over to it. When you're trying to go ten million light-years, though, you need a third point to triangulate from (the Astronomican, for example).

Well, if the astronomican is a giant psychic beacon, perhaps it'd be possible to hook up multiple psykers together to create a smaller, weaker version. The breaking up of the Imperium would definitely result in the breaking up of the AdMech and without anyone to really enforce rules, someone is bound to get curious and experimental.

On a long enough time-line, I can see that happening, but I don't think the loss of Terra will permit low-ranking AdMech scrubs to start getting creative and inventive enough to replace the Astronomican.... or anything else that Mars is directly responsible for. Losing the Solar System means losing Mars, and that means losing the AdMech... as well as the Grey Knights.

Eh. All it takes is one deviant (Arch)Magos to get the ball rolling. One deviant Magos with a forgeworld (and perhaps a hiveworld or two) at his fingertips. Not arguing, but I think the loss of Sol would definitely allow deviance to arise. Certainly there will be those adherent to the rules, but like I said, it only takes one deviant Magos to get this ball rolling (and in a population easily numbering in the trillions, there's bound to be these deviants). Hell, could be a radical Inquisitor putting a gun to the head of a Magos.

Terra can't fall without taking the whole system and most of the Imperial forces with it. A threat to the home, the throne world, isn't taken lightly.

So if it fell, most of the humans are already on the path of the " full circle" , GW once had instead of the "end times" , the rise and fall of civilizations and empires, even species. A reboot of small mini-empires is not going to happen.

The problem with the AdMech is its inertia. Sure, you have some radical ArchMagos who suddenly decides that, no, 10mm of steel *isn't* great armor on a tank, and why the feth aren't we *sloping* the sides of these things!? and all that... but he's going to need underlings and help in order to make his plans come to fruition. Any one of these guys might decide that this ArchMagos is a here-tek and just melta his metal ass one day.

There's also the fact that, even if this latter scenario doesn't play out, there's a time-to-production for new designs, as well as production costs associated with building anything. With Warp travel out of commission, Hive Worlds are going to start starving, Forge Worlds are going to run out of materials, and so forth and so on.

Humanity might survive in places like Ultramar, but it will not be able to handle Tyranids, Orks, Tau and Daemons alone.

Doubt Warp Travel would be out of commission. Slowed down certainly. But I'd imagine the Imperium would take a more Tau like approach and play the skipping stone game.

The Tau can afford to spend a few thousand years slowly expanding their empire, they don't have an Enemy From Beyond howling for their blood and actively tracking them down.

Betting on the ultimate irony, the God-Emperor's soul would be released from his body and would either neutralize the warp of Chaos or have the God-Emperor be reborn, leading to a new Terra.

 DrownedRat117 wrote:

maybe an Eldar...

I highly doubt the Eldar would be the one to deal the deathblow to the Imperium. Surely some Farseer would foresee the dangers of letting the Emperor die, the Astronomicon to go out, and allowing daemons to run rampant through real space. It would doom their own race as Slaanesh finally claims his due.

 Ernestas wrote:
I'm pretty sure that I have read somewhere that miniature versions of astronomican are being established there Emperor's light cannot guide astropaths any longer. In any way, I cannot provide proof, that is just a rumor that I have heard.

You heard wrong.

The Emperor made the Golden Throne, and no one else knows how it works.

The Emperor gave Dorn the plans to convert it to a life support machine and the astronomican, which is guided by him. Dorn had the alterations carried out - but that doesn't mean him or the people who did it actually understand it. You don't need to understand something to follow intricate guidelines.

The Golden Throne is breaking, and no one has the knowledge to fix it.

The only person with the knowledge to build it is little more than a corpse with a lighthouse bulb in his head. No one left alive even has the foggiest idea how to fix it, let alone build a new one.

Humans didn't even have technology like it during the Age of Technology, it's height of technological mastery. It's a one off creation made by the greatest mind humanity has ever had.

Losing Terra would be the end of the Imperium, and the end of human long distance warp travel.

In any way, certainly, it's in eldar's every wish to help Imperium survive. We can see it in their actions during Black crusades which I want to think, ruined Abbadons plans for decisive defeat of Imperium. Now he is overstretched and shall be crushed by Imperium counter-attacks then rest of their reinforcements will arrive. Certainly, we all know that Imperium practically have drained its defenses dry and focused almost everything they have onto eye of Terror. I would like to think that few more Imperium speaheads are speeding to help Imperium from edges of galaxy which will cut through over-stretched and reserveless Abbadon's forces.


But I digress, that I wanted to say is that humanity is engineered-like good race to serve as a meat shield. Only orks can arguably fulfill this role better. In all sources that I have read, it's agreed that humans are like stubborn roaches. They will keep resisting and fighting you despite all odds. If they are left unchecked, they will multiply very fast. Only way to really hit them is not killing individuals, which rarely matters in grand scheme of things, but to take away their breeding grounds, their precious planets. That is the only way to make a true impact on humanity, any other way will result in their quick recovery.
Due to that, there is quite high chance for eldars actually helping humanity with creation of new astromicanum. It's in their every interest to have humanity as their meat-shield in order to survive. In truth, there actually is no viable alternatives right now. Orks are too disorganised to actually take a crown of galactic dominance in time to grow strong enough to face all threats that universe can throw at them. Humans on the other hand are intelligent and persistent enough to get job done in any form (like actually paying attention to necrons and exterminating them).



Also, Imperium is just too vast to be exterminated. It's like WW2 Russia. You can invade as much as you wish, but your immense progress will look insignificant compared to its sheer size. Even if Terra falls and Imperium is exhausted from defending it+chaos running rampant, it still would require just too much time for it to be consumed. Same goes with Tyranids. They might be an unstoppable monsters from your nightmares, but their movement speeds are simply too slow to pose any threat of extinction in near future.

As the homeworld of the Imperium splits apart and the anchor of humanity is destroyed a new order forms from the old.

Being finally released from the mortal plain the Emperor is reborn as the God he always aspired to be. The Chaos Pantheon is forced back into the darkest recesses of the warp as the holy light of the God Emperor burns like a billion suns, spreading through the immaterium, calming its roiling tides.

The impact on Psykers is catastrophic, as the sudden awakening of the Emperor brings forth their true power, incinerating their minds and causing this force to be released like a super nova, the impact of this is felt by every race but none suffer as much as the Eldar.

As the Emperors new form comes into full awareness and the psykers numbers gradually dwindle to nothing stability is bought back once more to the Galaxy, nothing like this has been seen since the darkest early days of the Imperium. There is hope however for mankind, with the calming of the warp inter stellar travel is more possible than ever and communications with distant worlds is quickly re established. The home of the new Imperium is set up in the Realm of Ultramar.

Other races have faired better however, the rising Tau empire, due to it's non existent connection with the warp, have dispatched vessels into numerous once held Imperium territories uncontested. Finding the populations there all too happy to embrace a new master after the terrors bought forth by the falling of the last.

The Orks seemingly unaffected and more eager than ever to wage their mighty Waaaghs across the planets now in turmoil and more Necron Tombworlds awake from their slumber looking to take back what they deem as theirs.

 Psienesis wrote:
Another Eye of Terror would erupt, centered on Terra. Most every other faction would eventually fall themselves, being unable to compete with the immortal legions of Chaos.

Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids all disagree with you. Heck an Ork warboss cut a swathe through the eye of terror and shattered multiple daemon worlds. And Gork and Mork are still more powerful than all four chaos gods combined, and the hive mind is arguably also more powerful a force than the gods.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Ernestas wrote:
I'm pretty sure that I have read somewhere that miniature versions of astronomican are being established there Emperor's light cannot guide astropaths any longer. In any way, I cannot provide proof, that is just a rumor that I have heard.

You heard wrong.

The Emperor made the Golden Throne, and no one else knows how it works.
<snip>

Humans didn't even have technology like it during the Age of Technology, it's height of technological mastery. It's a one off creation made by the greatest mind humanity has ever had.

Er, it has been said the the Horus Heresy books that the Emperor found the core of the golden throne as a relic from the Dark Age of Technology, granted he added parts to it with the assistance of Mars. As for localised warp beacons, they are mentioned in "The Lion" from "The Primarchs" black library book. They are used were the Astronomican was too weak to be used.

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Another Eye of Terror would erupt, centered on Terra. Most every other faction would eventually fall themselves, being unable to compete with the immortal legions of Chaos.

Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids all disagree with you. Heck an Ork warboss cut a swathe through the eye of terror and shattered multiple daemon worlds. And Gork and Mork are still more powerful than all four chaos gods combined, and the hive mind is arguably also more powerful a force than the gods.

Gork and Mork don't do anything directly to the other Chaos Gods unless and until one of the Chaos Gods does something directly to them.

If Chaos starts defeating the Orks in large numbers... who cares? Either the Orks 'ard up and get back to da fightin', or they're not worthy of being called Orks. Gork and Mork simply do not care.

The Hive Mind has never tangled directly with a Chaos God, and has never attempted to enter the Eye of Terror. Tyranids also seem to lack any capability to enter the Warp, though we have seen them mutate due to the effects of Chaos. In this event, the Hive Fleets will become their own enemy.

Necrons piss their robotic selves fighting Daemons, because all of their hyper-dimensional shenanigans are, as their own Codex puts it, "merely new flavors of Reality to twist and corrupt".

 Pilau Rice wrote:
A
As the Emperors new form comes into full awareness and the psykers numbers gradually dwindle to nothing stability is bought back once more to the Galaxy, nothing like this has been seen since the darkest early days of the Imperium. There is hope however for mankind, with the calming of the warp inter stellar travel is more possible than ever and communications with distant worlds is quickly re established. The home of the new Imperium is set up in the Realm of Ultramar.

Woah, someone that remember fething Ultramar! Seriosly guys, no one gives a damn about it? I don't like the Ultras too much, but they did a helluva job there. And with the EMPRAH (it needs to be written in Caps Lock) becoming a full God and the Mankind amplifing its psy-nature, maybe the fall of Terra is the best thing that could happen to mankind

While that's a possibility (and there is a Radical faction of the Inquisition that believes it) it's a gamble the Imperium is not willing to take. There's no concrete evidence to suggest that, were the God-Emperor's body to fully, completely die that he would be reborn in the Warp as a rival to the Great Four. Thus, allowing the Emperor to fully die might be humanity's only hope... or it might be the death-knell of their entire civilization.

 Psienesis wrote:
and there is a Radical faction of the Inquisition that believes it

There's a radical faction of the Inquisition that believes everything.

Indeed! That's... why they call them Radicals.

Puritans tend to believe that everything that goes on in the Imperium is directly a result of the Emperor's Will, and anyone who resists how the Imperium does things is thus opposing the Emperor's Will, and is thus a heretic and a blasphemer, and is thus fit for servitor-hood, at best, or a long and painful death otherwise.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Another Eye of Terror would erupt, centered on Terra. Most every other faction would eventually fall themselves, being unable to compete with the immortal legions of Chaos.

Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids all disagree with you. Heck an Ork warboss cut a swathe through the eye of terror and shattered multiple daemon worlds. And Gork and Mork are still more powerful than all four chaos gods combined, and the hive mind is arguably also more powerful a force than the gods.

Gork and Mork don't do anything directly to the other Chaos Gods unless and until one of the Chaos Gods does something directly to them.

If Chaos starts defeating the Orks in large numbers... who cares? Either the Orks 'ard up and get back to da fightin', or they're not worthy of being called Orks. Gork and Mork simply do not care.

The Hive Mind has never tangled directly with a Chaos God, and has never attempted to enter the Eye of Terror. Tyranids also seem to lack any capability to enter the Warp, though we have seen them mutate due to the effects of Chaos. In this event, the Hive Fleets will become their own enemy.

Necrons piss their robotic selves fighting Daemons, because all of their hyper-dimensional shenanigans are, as their own Codex puts it, "merely new flavors of Reality to twist and corrupt".

1. An Ork still repeatedly defeated Daemons in their own turf.

2. Daemons are terrified of the shadow in the warp, and the mortal followers of Chaos have been handed several humiliating defeats by the Tyranids.

3. Pylons.