Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I need clarification of this, I was told that a flamer could NOT be used in over watch and on pg 13 in snap fire of the rule book says I can't. But page 52 in the rule book under template weapons says I CAN. Lol so I can?

Template weapons inflict D3 hits when overwatching, but they cannot normally be snapfired, i'd assume this is whats confusing you

They can't be snap fired, but they make use of the Wall of Death rule when used in Overwatch.

Flamer is the only template weapon that can be used in overwatch check up Wall of death in the rulebook.

Correct, but I've been told adamently that they couldn't, till I just read that part. So wall of death is only exception.

phatonic wrote:
Flamer is the only template weapon that can be used in overwatch check up Wall of death in the rulebook.

Any template weapon can be used for Overwatch using Wall of Death (assuming the model is allowed to fire Overwatch).

I'm not sure where you are getting the 'only' part.BRB p52 is pretty clear.

"Flamers and other Template Weapons..."

"Template weapons can..."

etc

edit : ninja'd by a happyjew

Yeah, flamers are specifically mentioned, presumably due to being the most common template weapons, but the rule quite clearly applies to all template weapons.

Can anyone think of a non-standard teardrop-flamer-template weapon that is mounted on a model that can fire overwatch?

Something like the Death Ray on a DoomScythe, but on something that can fire overwatch.

Well said flamer as in the missle launchers CAN snap shot krak thus they have to snap shot those.

Just wanted everyone's opinion. Like I said I played a game vs a tyranid yesterday and I had a squad of crisis suits with dual flames not to. And would of wiped them out depending on my roles. He said that they couldn't and swore up and down that I couldn't said it would be too op.

 ruthlessgamer wrote:
He said that they couldn't and swore up and down that I couldn't said it would be too op.

Show him p52. Be polite about it, but insist that you play it correctly from now on.

Lol gladly, if I see him again, but now I know for future references. Thanks

 ruthlessgamer wrote:
Lol gladly, if I see him again, but now I know for future references. Thanks

The argument presented to him could run along the lines of "General rules vs. Specific exceptions".

The General rule states that Template weapons cannot Snap Fire, the Specific exception is that in the case of Overwatch a Template weapon CAN fire using the Wall of Death rule.

A similar situation is;

The General rule states that passengers cannot assault after disembarking, the Specific exception states that in the case of Open Topped vehicles passenger CAN assault after disembarking.


Should the person in question insist that the rule of page 13 should ALWAYS apply, then he also states that passengers can NEVER assault after disembarking (Open Topped), or that a unit can NEVER assault after firing Rapid Fire weapons (Relentless) or that an assaulting unit should ALWAYS gain +1 from charging (Rage and/or Defensive Grenades or.....





...

That's the whole point of wall of death.

Oh god there charging right at us! Everyone Fire! Fire! Fire! whoa you flamer guy you can't fire you have a template weapon its too powerful....

Burna boys love a good overwatch

foolishmortal wrote:
Can anyone think of a non-standard teardrop-flamer-template weapon that is mounted on a model that can fire overwatch?

What do you mean by non-standard? There's a ton of Template weapons, some of which are quite odd. Tyranid Acid Spray is Torrent, which adds precisely nothing to Wall of Death, but can still use it. Shattershard is about as non-standard as Template weapons get. Then there's neuroshredders (and the Necron equivalent).

foolishmortal wrote:
Something like the Death Ray on a DoomScythe, but on something that can fire overwatch.

That's not a (flame) Template weapon at all; if it were on a model that could overwatch, it would be unable to fire that weapon, as it can neither use Wall of Death nor snapshot.

Pyrian wrote:
What do you mean by non-standard?

Something that does not use the GW teardrop shaped 8.5-9" long (I forget exactly) template. Something that is refereed to in the rules as a Template weapon, but uses some other means of determining area of effect, number of hits, etc

I know the Death Ray was a poor place to start from, but it was the first thing that popped into my flawed little head. Sorry

I'm asking (not stating), is there a Weapon in 40k that is a Template weapon, but does not use the 9" elongated teardrop shaped thing?

Ignore for now the Apocalypses big teardrop template and weapons that use the 9" teardrop, but have other rules for placement, like the IG Hellhound or the GK DreadKnight.

foolishmortal wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
What do you mean by non-standard?

Something that does not use the GW teardrop shaped 8.5-9" long (I forget exactly) template. Something that is refereed to in the rules as a Template weapon, but uses some other means of determining area of effect, number of hits, etc

I know the Death Ray was a poor place to start from, but it was the first thing that popped into my flawed little head. Sorry

I'm asking (not stating), is there a Weapon in 40k that is a Template weapon, but does not use the 9" elongated teardrop shaped thing?

Ignore for now the Apocalypses big teardrop template and weapons that use the 9" teardrop, but have other rules for placement, like the IG Hellhound or the GK DreadKnight.

Wall of Death deals with Template weapons. Template weapons always use the teardrop-shaped template marker. If it does not use the template, it is not a Template weapon.

EDIT: What Happyjew said. There are no Template weapons that don't use the flame template.

 Happyjew wrote:
Wall of Death deals with Template weapons. Template weapons always use the teardrop-shaped template marker. If it does not use the template, it is not a Template weapon.

Is there a rules citation for this, or is it from inductive reasoning?

BRB p6 is the best I can come up with, and its pretty clear. Is there another entry I should be looking at?

I just can't shake the nagging feeling that I read about "non-standard templates" somewhere. Perhaps it was in one of the old FAQ entries and has since been removed.

While strictly speaking there's nothing absolutely preventing GW from writing a weapon which has the Template rule, but doesn't use said Template, no such weapon exists and it would probably be simpler to just give the non-Template weapon the Wall of Death rule outright (which also has never happened).

Template, as defined within the 40k ruleset, means only the teardrop-shaped sucker.

The round ones, within the context of the 40k rules, are Blast Markers and Large Blast Markers, although within the broader (non GW-specific) meaning, those could be described as being templates as well.

Sometimes people misapply the word "template" to refer to other things which hit everything under them (like lines), as the rules are kind of similar, in that you've got a geometric shape under which things are hit, but within a rules set it's important to use the words as they're defined in those rules.

foolishmortal, pg 6 tells you what a "template" is (the 8" teardrop shaped marker). Page 52, gives you the rules for Template weapons.

 ruthlessgamer wrote:
Just wanted everyone's opinion. Like I said I played a game vs a tyranid yesterday and I had a squad of crisis suits with dual flames not to. And would of wiped them out depending on my roles. He said that they couldn't and swore up and down that I couldn't said it would be too op.

In situations like this, if you don't know the rule that allows you to do something then you can't do it...

In order to utilize the wall of death rule a weapon needs to have "template" as it's range.