Quilon [TAU flier]

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**Peregrine**

Miri wrote:
Make the Drones in the racks count against the Fast Attack FOC and you have to actually pay for them since Peregrine is having issues with it. That way if you field a Quilon with drone rack 2 of your 3 Fast Attack slots are already filled.

This is probably the way to go with it, but in a simpler way: remove the pulse bomb from the bomber, add 6 transport capacity that can only be used to carry drones. Drop the rest of the changes.

**Furyou Miko**

Why not just make it a dedicated transport? Lol. Been thinking of a few more things;

Quilon-B DSACS (Elites) (150 points)

BS 5 FA11 SA11 RA10 HP 3

- Vehicle, Flyer
- Turreted defensive Smart Missile System
- Networked Drone Controller
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- May take Vehicle Battle Systems

Defensive Smart Missile System
This SMS has the Interceptor special rule.

Networked Drone Controller
When the Quilon-B enters the board, all Drone Squadrons, Heavy Drone Squadrons and Remora Drone Fighters must immedtately take a Leadership test (Remoras have Ld 10). If this test is passed, they gain the stubborn rule and may use the Quilon-B's Ballistic Skill as long as it remains in combat airspace.

Sky Shark lifter (100 points)
A Sky Shark is a dedicated transport option for a Piranha squadron or an XV-88 Broadside Battlesuit squad.

BS 3 FA 11 SA 11 RA 10 HP 3

- Flyer, Hover Mode
- Chin turret with Burst Cannon
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- May add up to 4 additional Sky Sharks to the squadron
- May exchange Burst Cannon for two Pulse Carbines
-May take Vehicle Battle Systems

A Sky Shark may carry 1 Pirahna or XV-88 Battlesuit, or up to 4 drones.

Remora-D Suppression Drone (points as Remora)

Stats as Remora

-Flyer
- Strafing Run
- Stealth Generator
- 6 twin-linked Pulse Carbines
- 4 Photon Bombs

- May add up to 2 Remora-Ds to form a squadron
- May take Vehicle Battle Systems

Photon Bomb;
RNG - S 2 AP - Heavy 1, Blast, Blind, 1-use-only

Aerial Assault Frame (30 points)

Crisis Suits may exchange their Jet Packs for and AAP. AAP equipped Crisis Suits are Flying Monstrous Creatures, although they do not gain the Smash rule. At the end of any turn an AAP Crisis Suit is Swooping, roll a D6 for the unit. On a roll of a 1 or 2, the AAP's limited fuel has been exhausted and the battlesuit becomes an Infantry model for the rest of the game.

**Valkyrie**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Why not just make it a dedicated transport? Lol. Been thinking of a few more things;

Quilon-B DSACS (Elites) (150 points)

BS 5 FA11 SA11 RA10 HP 3

Why BS5 when every other Flyer is BS3?

- Vehicle, Flyer
- Turreted defensive Smart Missile System
- Networked Drone Controller
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- May take Vehicle Battle Systems

Defensive Smart Missile System
This SMS has the Interceptor special rule.

Networked Drone Controller
When the Quilon-B enters the board, all Drone Squadrons, Heavy Drone Squadrons and Remora Drone Fighters must immedtately take a Leadership test (Remoras have Ld 10). If this test is passed, they gain the stubborn rule and may use the Quilon-B's Ballistic Skill as long as it remains in combat airspace.

What possible use is Stubborn going to have on a vehicle squadron?

Sky Shark lifter (100 points)
A Sky Shark is a dedicated transport option for a Piranha squadron or an XV-88 Broadside Battlesuit squad.

BS 3 FA 11 SA 11 RA 10 HP 3

- Flyer, Hover Mode
- Chin turret with Burst Cannon
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- May add up to 4 additional Sky Sharks to the squadron
- May exchange Burst Cannon for two Pulse Carbines
-May take Vehicle Battle Systems

A Sky Shark may carry 1 Pirahna or XV-88 Battlesuit, or up to 4 drones.

Can't see this being used that much since XV-88s are usually taken in larger units. Also, a Flyer transporting a Skimmer is a stupid idea.

Remora-D Suppression Drone (points as Remora)

Stats as Remora

-Flyer
- Strafing Run
- Stealth Generator
- 6 twin-linked Pulse Carbines
- 4 Photon Bombs

You realise that you're never going to be able to fire all weapons at once? 1 Photon Bomb means you can fire 3 Pulse Carbines before you have to Snap-Shot. Also, why 6 Twin-Linked Pulse Carbines?

- May add up to 2 Remora-Ds to form a squadron
- May take Vehicle Battle Systems

Photon Bomb;
RNG - S 2 AP - Heavy 1, Blast, Blind, 1-use-only

Aerial Assault Frame (30 points)

Crisis Suits may exchange their Jet Packs for and AAP. AAP equipped Crisis Suits are Flying Monstrous Creatures, although they do not gain the Smash rule. At the end of any turn an AAP Crisis Suit is Swooping, roll a D6 for the unit. On a roll of a 1 or 2, the AAP's limited fuel has been exhausted and the battlesuit becomes an Infantry model for the rest of the game.
That's the last thing that Battlesuits need, to become FMCs. Imagine a Farsight Bomb flying round in such a manner...

**Furyou Miko**

BS5 because it's based off the Fire Warrior Sharp Shooter from the Sniper Drone squad, rather than the codex fliers.

Stubborn won't affect the Remoras, but it will affect the regular and heavy Drone Squadrons - they're jetbikes.

Sky Sharks come in squadrons so that a squadron of Sky Sharks can carry a squadron of Piranhas or a squad of Broadsides between them - Broadsides come in squads of 1-3 + 0-6 drones, so a squadron of 5 Sun Sharks (the max squadron size) can carry all of them.

As for Piranhas, the Piranha isn't a flying skimmer really - it's more like a jeep or humvee. I doubt they can keep up with true fliers, which means that to deploy them in support of airdropped infantry, you need to attach them to fliers.

Remora-D - I need to state that the Carbines fire as a single weapon system then, like Hurricane Bolters (which is where I got the idea) - they're Carbines specifically because of the Pinning effect, the idea of the Remora-D is that it isn't killy so much, but it gets the enemy heads down and prevents them from reacting properly.

Aerial Assault Frames are mostly a nod to veritechs and gundams, an attempt to represent the idea of a bolt-on wing pack to enhance the aerial capability of battle suits.

**Valkyrie**

Furyou Miko wrote:
BS5 because it's based off the Fire Warrior Sharp Shooter from the Sniper Drone squad, rather than the codex fliers.

Stubborn won't affect the Remoras, but it will affect the regular and heavy Drone Squadrons - they're jetbikes.

Sky Sharks come in squadrons so that a squadron of Sky Sharks can carry a squadron of Piranhas or a squad of Broadsides between them - Broadsides come in squads of 1-3 + 0-6 drones, so a squadron of 5 Sun Sharks (the max squadron size) can carry all of them.

What if then, for example, on of the Sharks is destroyed and the XV88 survives? Going by the closest comparable thing, the Sky Talon, this means that just destroying one of the squadron forces the whole unit of battlesuits to disembark.

As for Piranhas, the Piranha isn't a flying skimmer really - it's more like a jeep or humvee. I doubt they can keep up with true fliers, which means that to deploy them in support of airdropped infantry, you need to attach them to fliers.

Fair enough, but even then you'd need something bigger than a Sunshark-sized vehicle to lift a Pirahna.

Remora-D - I need to state that the Carbines fire as a single weapon system then, like Hurricane Bolters (which is where I got the idea) - they're Carbines specifically because of the Pinning effect, the idea of the Remora-D is that it isn't killy so much, but it gets the enemy heads down and prevents them from reacting properly.

Aerial Assault Frames are mostly a nod to veritechs and gundams, an attempt to represent the idea of a bolt-on wing pack to enhance the aerial capability of battle suits.

Ok, but what if, like the explanation above, one of the suits runs out of fuel? Does he make a new unit, or are the rest of the unit forced to slug along with him? Spending 90pts to upgrade a unit of 3 like this is worthless if just one unit failing means everyone has to slog along with him?

**ImotekhTheStormlord**

Peregrine wrote:
Kain wrote:
And Peregrine seems to dislike a vast portion of the fluff, from the World Eaters, to reality warping chaos, to the Tyranids existing, to the Orks being funny and having ramshackle tech that works, to Space Marines being a thing, and again, anything that isn't tacticool IG and Tau.

Which is completely false. Space marines are fine, as long as they're viewed as their tabletop effectiveness (elite shooting-based infantry, not invincible gods of combat), not the wildly exaggerated Imperial propaganda the fluff likes to use. Orks are great because they're comic relief and you aren't meant to take their ridiculous "technology" seriously. Tyranids, on the other hand, are incredibly stupid realism-wise and have no character fluff-wise. So no, I don't think that a fanboy army made by someone who failed biology 101 deserves to be in the game.

Your claim of 'Completely False' is almost immediately contradicted by you admitting that you strongly dislike Nids.

If part of his statement is true then obviously you cant dub it completely false.

On top of that, you say that the Space Marine gods of war fluff (which admittedly is pretty stupid) is not good.

Yet again reinforcing his statement as the space marines= kool fluff is a MASSIVE part of 40k.

**Furyou Miko**

Imotekh, this thread is for discussing my Tau units, not Peregrine's tenuous grasp on suspension of disbelief. Thanks.

Valkyrie - well, if one of tyhe sharks is destroyed, they'll have to find somewhere to drop their load because that's what happens when vulnerable transports get shot at!

I'll let you know once I've built my Piranha how the fit works, but the Sky Shark doesn't have drone docks or weapon systems in the drone nacelles, it's got extra engines.

When I wrote the rules out for the Frame, I wrote it that the whole unit makes a single test at the end of the Swooping turn. ^^;

Points are tricky - too low and Monat suits become godly, too high and teams become worthless. What would you suggest?

**Valkyrie**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Imotekh, this thread is for discussing my Tau units, not Peregrine's tenuous grasp on suspension of disbelief. Thanks.

Valkyrie - well, if one of tyhe sharks is destroyed, they'll have to find somewhere to drop their load because that's what happens when vulnerable transports get shot at!

Well that's pretty ridiculous then isn't it, I can make your whole plan go tits-up just by destroying a single transport. Also, who on earth would really spend many turns transporting an XV88, would be a fool to waste that many turns not shooting.

I'll let you know once I've built my Piranha how the fit works, but the Sky Shark doesn't have drone docks or weapon systems in the drone nacelles, it's got extra engines.

When I wrote the rules out for the Frame, I wrote it that the whole unit makes a single test at the end of the Swooping turn. ^^;

Points are tricky - too low and Monat suits become godly, too high and teams become worthless. What would you suggest?

**Furyou Miko**

The same kind of person who takes Sky Talons to transport their Drop Sentinels, which can deep strike of their own accord: Someone building a theme army for the sake of it rather than someone making a list to play.

**Valkyrie**

Furyou Miko wrote:
The same kind of person who takes Sky Talons to transport their Drop Sentinels, which can deep strike of their own accord: Someone building a theme army for the sake of it rather than someone making a list to play.

Still does nothing about the *major* holes in the rules created by these proposals.

**Furyou Miko**

Well, what do you suggest?

**SoloFalcon1138**

leave it alone and try the flyers you got in the new codex?

**Furyou Miko**

Solo... you really don't get it, do you?

The point of this thread is not to make a new uber unit to replace the codex fliers.

The point of this thread is not to try and show up the GW codex writers.

The point of this thread is to take the quite cool Razor/Sunshark model and see what else we can do with the basic chassis. For fun. I don't even play Tau!

Comments like, "try the fliers you got in the new codex" or "it sucks no-one will take it" are not helpful or conducive to anything except me getting frustrated. Please don't make me frustrated, it impedes my enjoyment of the hobby and you haven't really gained anything either.

**Valkyrie**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Solo... you really don't get it, do you?

The point of this thread is not to make a new uber unit to replace the codex fliers.

The point of this thread is not to try and show up the GW codex writers.

The point of this thread is to take the quite cool Razor/Sunshark model and see what else we can do with the basic chassis. For fun. I don't even play Tau!

Comments like, "try the fliers you got in the new codex" or "it sucks no-one will take it" are not helpful or conducive to anything except me getting frustrated. Please don't make me frustrated, it impedes my enjoyment of the hobby and you haven't really gained anything either.

If constructive criticism is getting you frustrated, then proposing new rules probably isn't the best idea then.

If you don't play Tau, then don't come over as hostile when we criticise such ideas. Frankly, it's a bit ridiculous and there's major parts of the rules that would have to be rewritten in order to accomodate such things. Like Solo said, as it stands there's no reason whatsoever to take these over the flyers in the Codex

**Savageconvoy**

It's hard to balance a unit for Tau if you don't play with them. Things like giving a flyer a drone controller that gives all drones across the field BS5 really cause a huge imbalance in the army.

I agree with what Peregrine said earlier. Take off the bomb generator and add in racks for about 4-6 drones that deepstrike without scatter.

The most I could see for upgrades from the standard flyers would be replacing the ion weapons with rail rifles, but the codex ones are just a weird set up. The fighter is a better bomber and the bomber is better equipped to take on flyers.

**Peregrine**

Valkyrie wrote:
If constructive criticism is getting you frustrated, then proposing new rules probably isn't the best idea then.

This. Part of proposing rules on a forum is a two-way discussion, and that's going to include criticism. If all you want to do is make up rules and have everyone ignore them then why post?

Furyou Miko wrote:
The point of this thread is to take the quite cool Razor/Sunshark model and see what else we can do with the basic chassis. For fun. I don't even play Tau!

You don't even play Tau, so you're never going to use these rules. What is your goal here then? If you want to make cool conversions then why don't you just build the model and put it on your display shelf? Why does it need to have rules?

Furyou Miko wrote:
Valkyrie - well, if one of tyhe sharks is destroyed, they'll have to find somewhere to drop their load because that's what happens when vulnerable transports get shot at!

The point is that you have a rules mess where part of a unit is aboard a transport and part is on the table. This is a bad thing to have.

I'll let you know once I've built my Piranha how the fit works, but the Sky Shark doesn't have drone docks or weapon systems in the drone nacelles, it's got extra engines.

It won't fit in any reasonable way. The Piranha isn't that much smaller than the flyers, so there's no way you're going to have a flyer plausibly hauling one around. If the awkward mess could even get off the ground without crashing it would almost certainly be slower than just bringing two Piranhas and having them fly themselves to the destination.