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I'm staring to play Grey Knights for the first time and I would like some help making army lists, I Already have my HQ Kaldor Draigo and need input of how to progress through learning/building my army, I was told by a few friends that I could just run 2 sets of 5 paladins and that would be my cheapest way to start out, which I would like to know if they were right or not. I want to know the best list for 1,000p, 1,500, and 2,000p or at least close to those point values, my friends don't mind playing amounts like 1,300 or 1,600.

What kind of army do you want to do? The codex is so diverse that there are loads of ways you could run GK. So a basic outline of how you would like to play would be needed before anybody could help you.

I would get a Coteaz as he is really good w Paladins. Then you can find some cheap bolter troops to take or hold objectives. I think Warrior Acos are 5pts each w/ bolters or 4 points each w/ las pistols and chain swords. Since Paladins are so expensive it is good to have some cheap troop units to hold objectives.

Get and Inq or just use Coteaz and run 3 Plasma cannon Servitors w/ him and maybe a Jokearo. That is a very strong shooting unit to back Paladins up.

You might want a Chimera to put those 3 PC Serv in.

Everyone uses the Dreadnoughts w/ the auto cannons w/ psybolt but I have never had much sucess w/ them.

Get an aegis for flyer defense too. You can put the quad gun or las cannon on it.

A dread knight is a whole lot of fun w/ teleporter and incinerator.

I have such a wide range of opponents at the shop I play at, we have someone playing every faction and some playing more than one(the one played most is space marines which tends to be how it is everywhere) so I need to be able to stand up against a wide range of factions, consistency is key where I play at. I need to be able to hold my own against every faction so unfortunately I know I wont get one answer that's best but that's why I'm looking for lots of input on what everyone thinks REALY works well and I would use that knowledge as I continue to play GK.

It still really depends on which style of play you want.
Each will be able to hold their own but will suit some people more than others: it just depends on your personal preference.

I want a good list for learning to play, I like being hard to kill and I like to have a lower unit counts so it's less moving pieces, does that help?

Well, if you want low model counts, you came to the right army! As far as being hard to kill, sheeesh, we all want that!!! But sounds like Paladins are what your looking for! Think about the Stormraven... our why not 2, one for each squad?

Dagger wrote:
Well, if you want low model counts, you came to the right army! As far as being hard to kill, sheeesh, we all want that!!! But sounds like Paladins are what your looking for!

ok so I was told right then? I'm doing my first set of paladins all melee, apothecary, Justicar with duel falchion, standard bearer, one with a hammer, and the fifth will be using a regular sword.

the second 5 will be using all heavy ranged weapons? does that sound like a good set up?

 darkinstinct wrote:

Dagger wrote:
Well, if you want low model counts, you came to the right army! As far as being hard to kill, sheeesh, we all want that!!! But sounds like Paladins are what your looking for!

ok so I was told right then? I'm doing my first set of paladins all melee, apothecary, Justicar with duel falchion, standard bearer, one with a hammer, and the fifth will be using a regular sword.

the second 5 will be using all heavy ranged weapons? does that sound like a good set up?

Unless you buy the whole 10 man squad, and then split them into combat squads, you'll only get one "Heavy" per... I'd give a Banner guy a PsyCan in each, get psybolts, and just go with Swords for weapons and take the 4+ inv save for even more survivability... dunno, just mho?


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Id like to see an entire squad of paladins with the Banner and the falchions tho! Something like 45+ force weapon attacks!


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If you do build the 10 man squads, its cheaper/more logical to buy Psy ammo for the whole unit, and then you could build it more like your thinking, with an "choppy sqd" (banner, apothecary etc...) and a "shooty squad" (2x PsyCan)?

Dagger wrote:

 darkinstinct wrote:

Dagger wrote:
Well, if you want low model counts, you came to the right army! As far as being hard to kill, sheeesh, we all want that!!! But sounds like Paladins are what your looking for!

ok so I was told right then? I'm doing my first set of paladins all melee, apothecary, Justicar with duel falchion, standard bearer, one with a hammer, and the fifth will be using a regular sword.

the second 5 will be using all heavy ranged weapons? does that sound like a good set up?

Unless you buy the whole 10 man squad, and then split them into combat squads, you'll only get one "Heavy" per... I'd give a Banner guy a PsyCan in each, get psybolts, and just go with Swords for weapons and take the 4+ inv save for even more survivability... dunno, just mho?


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Id like to see an entire squad of paladins with the Banner and the falchions tho! Something like 45+ force weapon attacks!


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If you do build the 10 man squads, its cheaper/more logical to buy Psy ammo for the whole unit, and then you could build it more like your thinking, with an "choppy sqd" (banner, apothecary etc...) and a "shooty squad" (2x PsyCan)?

I was thinking of having a banner in each of the 5 man squads, one melee squad and one ranged, they all have something ranged because they are GK and have it wielded the left arm so I would have the melee squad to run through the lines and then a heavy ranged squad coming in behind them or in cover laying down fire over them with draigo as the HQ but I have never played them so I don't know if having them all with one kind of weapon is better than a mix, hammer/sword/ duel falchion kind of mix and the ranged out have 2 psycannons or something like that, I have 3 choices because each set comes with one of each so that means 2 psycannon, 2 psilencer, and 2 incinerators to put on my figs.

Just buy psycannons on eBay... A 10 man unit with 4 psycannons, banner and (if you so wish) apothecary will be the base of your list with coteaz and draigo. Then take a smaller unit (depending on points) which could even be a solodin, then fill out the list with support.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Just buy psycannons on eBay... A 10 man unit with 4 psycannons, banner and (if you so wish) apothecary will be the base of your list with coteaz and draigo. Then take a smaller unit (depending on points) which could even be a solodin, then fill out the list with support.

what would you suggest buying for supports? thank you for the tips on buying them on ebay I will look into that for sure.

Most people running draigowing seem to swear by psyflemen dreadnoughts (dreadnoughts with 2 sets of twin-linked autocannons and pegging ammo) but personally I prefer henchmen (in my case crusaders, but others don't like them), dreadknights, assassins (especially the vindicare), and possibly even stormravens (unless you're playing against tau or vendetta spam). With regards to dreadknights, most people use grand strategy to make them scoring, however I find it better to (if you get first turn) give them scout, and use the scout move to teleport shunt to within charge range.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Most people running draigowing seem to swear by psyflemen dreadnoughts (dreadnoughts with 2 sets of twin-linked autocannons and pegging ammo) but personally I prefer henchmen (in my case crusaders, but others don't like them), dreadknights, assassins (especially the vindicare), and possibly even stormravens (unless you're playing against tau or vendetta spam). With regards to dreadknights, most people use grand strategy to make them scoring, however I find it better to (if you get first turn) give them scout, and use the scout move to teleport shunt to within charge range.

So many good choices, without knowing anything about the need for vehicle destruction that the Psyfleman dreadnoughts bring to the table I was already planning to purchase a Dreadknight because I saw it at the shop and it looked glorious. the Ravenwing I think im going to hold off on until I get the basics of my army down but that's always on the list for every army that can use them eventually. I haven't seen the assassin or henchmen though, what do they bring to the table that made you suggest them?

The tip on first turn is a great idea too, that could really push things into the GK favor having a dreadknight on top of them right from the start then roll through them with paladins >.< omg that sounds like it should happen in a movie haha!

yeah the DK can mop up any MC (riptides etc) that don't have eternal warrior with S10 force weapons...
Henchmen are cheap troops and can be kitted out for almost anything
Assassin isn't very survivable but is a great way of dealing with LR etc first turn with 4D6 + 3 armour pen (average of 16) and for removing invulnerable saves from characters

Everyone is right saying you should definitely get Paladins since they are a more bad mother version of a Terminator. Dragio is a must with this army since it makes them troops. If you need the mobility to move around i suggest a storm raven or land raiders right now i would go with a land raider and land raider crusader your main "assault force" or the guys you prefer to be in Close combat can fit in it with Dragio. the Land raider is also an assault vehicle. if the points don't allow you to have the two squads and two land raiders bring the basic land raider the twin-linked lascannons have good ranged for dealing with armor that may be able to whittle down them pallies. I suggest the land raider simply because the storm raven doesn't always preform and if the enemy has an Aegis D.L. it can get shot down quick and then your guys suffer strength 10 hits from crashing. also having an Aegis D.L with coteaz and some Inq. Hench can be good at sitting back shooting stuff up and holding an objective depending on the game like emperors will. this will be a great start for your grey knights and as you play you will figure out what else you want like a vindicare assassin and other units that can sit back and shoot or just wreak opponents in general.

I would strongly disagree with the above poster, as a land raider will drastically limit the size of unit you can take. Furthermore, using a storm raven should be entirely in support role, as you do NOT want your paladins off the board and likely to die when they turn up. Keep Coteaz with the Paladins so that he can buff them, and use a 10 man squad so that you can take 4 psycannons. Most henchmen are NOT good at holding objectives, with the exception of large crusader squads (but they can't shoot, so not a good idea). If you REALLY want land raiders then my suggestion would be Death Cult Assassins (12 of them, maybe swapping out 2 or 3 for crusaders to bear the overwatch) so that you have a high initiative, AP3, many many attacks unit. Otherwise don't bother.


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Also btw ignore my comment about scout-shunting the DK into charge range, as I have since been informed it's illegal :L

Tactical_Genius wrote:
I would strongly disagree with the above poster, as a land raider will drastically limit the size of unit you can take. Furthermore, using a storm raven should be entirely in support role, as you do NOT want your paladins off the board and likely to die when they turn up. Keep Coteaz with the Paladins so that he can buff them, and use a 10 man squad so that you can take 4 psycannons. Most henchmen are NOT good at holding objectives, with the exception of large crusader squads (but they can't shoot, so not a good idea). If you REALLY want land raiders then my suggestion would be Death Cult Assassins (12 of them, maybe swapping out 2 or 3 for crusaders to bear the overwatch) so that you have a high initiative, AP3, many many attacks unit. Otherwise don't bother.


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Also btw ignore my comment about scout-shunting the DK into charge range, as I have since been informed it's illegal :L

I'm still leaning toward the idea of two 5 man groups of paladins to start my army then get more and try 2 groups of 10 paladins ( that's what your saying to do right?) and getting a raven wing seemed like the better idea just for the air support too, the paladins will always be on the board getting buffed I would never risk them crashing just to be moved. so after I get 2 five man paladins and Draigo put together what should my next buy be? a Dreadnought or a Dreadknight?

If you want to run a 10 man unit of paladins you could drop Draigo for a standard GM with Psycannon. He can make the pallys scoring. You can then take Cotaez as your second HQ and take a few cheep scoring units of henchmen. You can usually make up henchmen for guardsman mixed a few bitz from fantasy armys. Any left over bitz from your terminators or strike squad boxed sets can also go a long way.

Grand Strategy is probably more useful to just let you re-roll ones rather than using it to do something that Draigo does already.
10 man squads are better because they mean you can take 4 psycannons, and take the most advantage of divination and/or grand strategy.
Coteaz + henchmen are great but Draigo is still a great buy, why not use both?
Personally I prefer DK w. Personal Teleporter rather than a dreadnought due to the simple reason that GK don't get drop pods. And also heavy incinerators or heavy psycannons are fun
If i were you, get a 10 man squad then a smaller unit (possibly a Solodin), then some henchmen. If you need more scoring units then combat squad the 10 man (4 psycannons in a unit of 5 is nothing to complain about!)

Paladins need Draigo to be effective. Paladins are also best in 10 man blocks. They rely on being able to absolutely demolish whatever they shoot at or completely blow away anything that gets into combat with them. Without the critical mass of 7-8 paladins they start dropping off in effectiveness very quickly.

In regards to your cc vs shooty paladins:

Paladins are good at cc and absolutely fantastic at shooting and should be played as such. Mostly shooting with some cc thrown in when you need to mop up units.

How to kit out paladins

Falchions aren't really worth the upgrade cost.

2 - 4 hammer and the rest halberds. It is acceptable to tak a sword or two as well as a warding stave but generally I find it a waste of points/equipment spot. The 4++ save is only in cc and if you're in cc with something that you need to e making lot of invulnerable saves then you're already in trouble. Halberd vs hammers. Halberds allow you to go first in most situations. With coteaz Draigo and the squad you're already at s7 anyways. Here's how combat with a full 10 man squad of regular terminators goes. Assume you have a full 10 man squad with bro banner, apothecary, 7 halberds, 2 hammers, Draigo, coteaz.

You shoot at them and kill 4-5. Then you charge. Challenge the sergeant with Draigo. He might pop the sergeant. Your halberds go killing 3-4. He's got 1-2 guys left who might kill 1-2 guys. But then die to your hammer attacks. (Just ran the math hammer on this)

Here's how a squad with hammers goes: you shoot and kill 4-5. Charge. Draigo chalenges the sergeant and might pop him. The his terminators go and pop 4-5 of your paladins.

You still wipe the squad but you lose a lot more. And if you're against monstrous creatures you only need to do 1 wound and its dead to your auto pass force weapons.

Apothecary is really only worth it in a full 10 man squa with Draigo. A single fnp pass on Draigo completely pays for the apothecary upgrade cost.

Bro banner is meh in a squad of less than 10.

I prefer the dreadknight over dreadnoughts. Prices your opponent to direct some high strength fire away from your paladins and onto the dreadknight. Don't leave home without the Greatsword and heavy incinerator. The teleporter is a great option but not 100% neccesarry. Just very very good.

Aegis lines are meh for grey knights. You glance most flyers with your bolters anyway and any av12 flyer the aegis doesn't do much to anyways. If you're taking a jokaro list then it's good.

Like everyone is saying, paladins are very solid. But they melt like butter to ap 2. Draigo helps mitigate this. Draigo plus coteaz is better than a GM and an inquisitor with a psycannon. (For use with paladins)

Tactical_Genius wrote:
give them scout, and use the scout move to teleport shunt to within charge range.

This is illegal: you may not shunt with your scout redeployment. (Shunting is a move, scout is a deployment.)
Second time in the past week that someone's advocated this illegal tactic!


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Let's say you're set on Paladins (which you seem to be). Do you want them to be troops or not?

Draigo is 275pts, and then the Pals are troops; this satisfies the FOC. But if you take Coteaz + 2 three-man warrior squads, that's 124pts to satisfy the FOC. With Coteaz, the Pals aren't scoring, but they'll still kill things, and it leaves enough room (on the savings from Draigo) to fit in a Psyfleman or Vindicare.

Exidur wrote:
Paladins need Draigo to be effective. Paladins are also best in 10 man blocks. They rely on being able to absolutely demolish whatever they shoot at or completely blow away anything that gets into combat with them. Without the critical mass of 7-8 paladins they start dropping off in effectiveness very quickly.

In regards to your cc vs shooty paladins:

Paladins are good at cc and absolutely fantastic at shooting and should be played as such. Mostly shooting with some cc thrown in when you need to mop up units.

How to kit out paladins

Falchions aren't really worth the upgrade cost.

2 - 4 hammer and the rest halberds. It is acceptable to tak a sword or two as well as a warding stave but generally I find it a waste of points/equipment spot. The 4++ save is only in cc and if you're in cc with something that you need to e making lot of invulnerable saves then you're already in trouble. Halberd vs hammers. Halberds allow you to go first in most situations. With coteaz Draigo and the squad you're already at s7 anyways. Here's how combat with a full 10 man squad of regular terminators goes. Assume you have a full 10 man squad with bro banner, apothecary, 7 halberds, 2 hammers, Draigo, coteaz.

You shoot at them and kill 4-5. Then you charge. Challenge the sergeant with Draigo. He might pop the sergeant. Your halberds go killing 3-4. He's got 1-2 guys left who might kill 1-2 guys. But then die to your hammer attacks. (Just ran the math hammer on this)

Here's how a squad with hammers goes: you shoot and kill 4-5. Charge. Draigo chalenges the sergeant and might pop him. The his terminators go and pop 4-5 of your paladins.

You still wipe the squad but you lose a lot more. And if you're against monstrous creatures you only need to do 1 wound and its dead to your auto pass force weapons.

Apothecary is really only worth it in a full 10 man squa with Draigo. A single fnp pass on Draigo completely pays for the apothecary upgrade cost.

Bro banner is meh in a squad of less than 10.

I prefer the dreadknight over dreadnoughts. Prices your opponent to direct some high strength fire away from your paladins and onto the dreadknight. Don't leave home without the Greatsword and heavy incinerator. The teleporter is a great option but not 100% neccesarry. Just very very good.

Aegis lines are meh for grey knights. You glance most flyers with your bolters anyway and any av12 flyer the aegis doesn't do much to anyways. If you're taking a jokaro list then it's good.

Like everyone is saying, paladins are very solid. But they melt like butter to ap 2. Draigo helps mitigate this. Draigo plus coteaz is better than a GM and an inquisitor with a psycannon. (For use with paladins)

this is awesome and now i need to take apart the 5 paladins I just put together xD

" Assume you have a full 10 man squad with bro banner, apothecary, 7 halberds, 2 hammers, Draigo, Coteaz." what is bro banner? the standard bearer? so to make a 10 man unit use( 7 halberds+ 2 hammer+ 1 apothecary =10) plus Draigo and then a Dreadknight? I dont know if I want to use Coteaz everyone hates him and calls him the easy button of 40K or that he is unfair and stuff like that :/ I will probably buy him just to see why everyone hates playing against him but not till I'm better with GK.

Coteaz or better known as cocheeze has garnered much hate from players everywhere but really it's mostly just hate towards grey knights in general. He's a fantastic model for 100 points but is nowhere near op. he has no invulnerable save! Unless you roll it on the chart. People just hate what he makes your units capable of. 2 rolls on the divination chart is fantastic. When you get the power that forces your opponent to re roll all his PASSED saving throws and combine that with twin linking a 10 man squad of paladins.. Well. People will be upset. I've been expecting you is a great rule but really only good against opponents that do something silly to begin with. If you're really worried about your opponents getting upset then playing a paladin list is probably a bad idea. Even though I have better results with my strike squad oriented lists people have an undying hatred for paladins that's been carried over from 5th Ed.

Bro banner is the standard bearer yes.

And just remember. Paladins require critical mass so don't expect amazing was from 5 man squads. But sounds like you've got the gist!! Paladins are definitely a lot of fun to play with.. Until you go up against a guard army with 9 vendettas.


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Also, I typically put the bro banner on the apothecary. That way you can keep two of the important upgrades hidden in the middle of the squad a lot easier o keep him safe from shooting and keep him safe from cc by keeping him out of base contact in cc with smart charge movement. It's all about the positioning!

Exidur wrote:
Coteaz or better known as cocheeze has garnered much hate from players everywhere but really it's mostly just hate towards grey knights in general. He's a fantastic model for 100 points but is nowhere near op. he has no invulnerable save! Unless you roll it on the chart. People just hate what he makes your units capable of. 2 rolls on the divination chart is fantastic. When you get the power that forces your opponent to re roll all his PASSED saving throws and combine that with twin linking a 10 man squad of paladins.. Well. People will be upset. I've been expecting you is a great rule but really only good against opponents that do something silly to begin with. If you're really worried about your opponents getting upset then playing a paladin list is probably a bad idea. Even though I have better results with my strike squad oriented lists people have an undying hatred for paladins that's been carried over from 5th Ed.

Bro banner is the standard bearer yes.

And just remember. Paladins require critical mass so don't expect amazing was from 5 man squads. But sounds like you've got the gist!! Paladins are definitely a lot of fun to play with.. Until you go up against a guard army with 9 vendettas.


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Also, I typically put the bro banner on the apothecary. That way you can keep two of the important upgrades hidden in the middle of the squad a lot easier o keep him safe from shooting and keep him safe from cc by keeping him out of base contact in cc with smart charge movement. It's all about the positioning!

Ok I was wondering why that added up too 11 and not 10 man. That's a great idea I will have to do that for sure. I think I will wait until after I get my Dreadknight before I buy Coteaz then, everyone in GK loves him so I will need him just to have in my collection even if I don't play him against people that hate him for the sake of "just for fun" games.

any other tips for units? or even armies to go into after GK? or good armies to have ally with GK?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529343.page

Check out that thread I've got a couple long posts talking more generally about GKs.

Once you get going you'll want to pick up some strike squads. They're one of the best units in the game.

Neurons make fantastic allies for grey knights. Tey have cheap models that fill in some of the holes in the grey knight army. If you don't want to take night scythes then ghost are pretty darn close to just as good. I'm going to be picking some up soon to start allying in. The problem I run into with allies is grey knights are so expensive that when you start bringing in allies it gets very easy to start diluting the potency of grey knight units. You have to make sure that you're picking units that shore up a weakness in your list, not just taking stuff willy nilly. Unless you like fluffy "just for fun" games.

Tau and eldar also make good allies and expect that will be doubly true once the new eldar codex comes out.

Exidur wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529343.page

Check out that thread I've got a couple long posts talking more generally about GKs.

Once you get going you'll want to pick up some strike squads. They're one of the best units in the game.

Neurons make fantastic allies for grey knights. Tey have cheap models that fill in some of the holes in the grey knight army. If you don't want to take night scythes then ghost are pretty darn close to just as good. I'm going to be picking some up soon to start allying in. The problem I run into with allies is grey knights are so expensive that when you start bringing in allies it gets very easy to start diluting the potency of grey knight units. You have to make sure that you're picking units that shore up a weakness in your list, not just taking stuff willy nilly. Unless you like fluffy "just for fun" games.

Tau and eldar also make good allies and expect that will be doubly true once the new eldar codex comes out.

When building my figs do I put a halberd+ psycannon ? or do the Psy cannon users need to have the hammers?