New Nids rules proposal

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**fartherthanfar**

Hi,
I love Nids but I think that alot of the most iconic dudes (Warriors and Genestealers come to mind) are not very competitive, here are a few rule changes that I think could push them to being able to fight better without making them overkill

Overall changes

Shadow in the warp
All LD test (psykic test too) are to be taken with an extra D6 taking out the lowest as long as at least 1 model with Shadow in the warp is on the table, if a psykic test is taken within 6" of a model with Shadow in the warp he doesnt take out the lowest dice.

This rule was ok but didnt give off the feel that the codex gave, where anyone in the whole world fighting nids (especially psykers) were feeling like their brains were getting torn inside out.

Regeneration
at the end of any turn the creature with Regeneration would has been killed roll a dice, on a 5+ he comes back to life with 1 wound, cannot regenerate more that turn.

I love the idea of a regenerating massive Nid monster but no one ever uses this option since it tends to always be wasted points which don't do a thing across the game so, this would give them an option to come back after getting shot to death and go on another little rampage

Creatures

Swarmlord
- lose flanking rerolls but gets 2+ArSv and Bs4 for 310pts (+30pts)

Nids are capable of getting both Bs4 and a 2+ArSv, no reason for the Ultra Legendary Swarmlord to not get it, I dont think this really makes him any stronger since he is already kinda too expensive and most of what has a chance at harming him will already have ap2 but this is for the Fluff more than anything.

Tyrant Guards
- lose 1Ws, 1Str and 2 Ini as well as Blind Rampage but reduces cost to 45pts a piece (-15pts) can exchange Rending Claws for BoneClaws (+1Ws & Str ap2 Unwieldy) @ 15pts

Tyrant Guards really seem expensive to me at 60pts a piece, I figure giving the Tyrants a slightly cheaper and less offensive option would be nice.

Tervigon
- Can Spawn Gaunts only twice per game and its always 12 that come out.
- Can choose to be carrying Hormagaunts instead of Termagaunts but this cost 15pts his Brood progeniture ability affects hormagaunts instead, Crushing claw @ 20pts (-5pts)

The Crushing Claws were a tad too expensive and I like the idea of spawning Hormagaunts too, hormagaunts are a bit better so I am making cost a bit more for it, also I heard some people being weirded out by the fact that Tervigons can sometimes sprout out 40 to 60 gaunts which is just too much.

Doom of Malantai
- 100pts (+10pts)

The Doom is vulnerable to Str8+ shots but damn is he good, giving him a point upgrade rounding him up to 100pts is a good idea

Zoanthropes
- 55pts (-5pts)
I really like the Zoan but I felt they are a bit too expensive

Ymgarl Genestealers
- 21pts (-2pts)

once again, good but too expensive for their worth

Lictors
too much to do... getting ap3, a 4+Arsv and Shrouded while taking out the crap pheromone trail would be a good start probably with a point increase of 10pts but I dont know if I want to get into these guys

Deathleaper
- +20pts (160pts) Eternal Warrior, Feel no pain, ap3 , 4+ArSv and lose Pheromone Trail, Character

I love the idea of these stealth assassins and Deathleaper is awesome with his psychological aspect rules, his main problem was that he was too squishy and not that lethal so he had very few things he could threaten. given how expensive he was I felt some upgrades to make him be able to do his job properly (at a price) were a good idea. I might be overdoing it with him tho

Warriors and Shriekes
- +1 Toughness -1 Wounds
- Toxin Sac 3pts (-2pts) Adrenal Glands 2pts (-3pts)
- Shriekes can get a 4+ArSv @ 3pts

I love this change, it allows them to survive a str 8 hit without exploding but doesnt require a point increase since they do lose a wound, also the upgrades were too expensives.

Genestealers
- Ini 5 (-1Ini ) lose Flanking but get a 4+ArSv, option to get Flanking and Stealth @ 3pts

The genestealers were always getting owned by bolters and flamers, giving them a 4+ArSv goes far in helping them and I feel losing flanking and 1 Ini is a slightly expensive but worthwhile exchange.

Hormagaunts
- AG and TS upgrade become 1 pts a piece
- Can run and then charge but as regular units only rolls 1 dice to run.

2 pts per upgrades was ridiculous for a 6pts model

Guargoyles
7pts each (+1pts)

these guys were just a bit too good I think

Raveners
- 38pts (+8pts) Eternal Warrior and 4+ArSv

problem with these guys was that they were just dying too fast before they would be able to do anything, I kindof like the idea of Raveners being eternal warriors, maybe im going to far with this one

Trygon
- Regeneration 30pts (+5pts), Trygon Prime 30pts (-10pts)

Carnifex
- 135pts (-25pts) Regeneration 20pts (-5pts)

Carny was just plainly too expensive for his worth.

Tyranofex and pyrovore
-dont get me started on these

I know I left a few units alone that could stand to get a boost but I mostly touched up the guys I like which I felt needed a bit of a boost and downgraded some of the dudes that were a bit too strong.

Also wouldnt mind the option of a 5++ warpfield for the Hive tyrant @ 25pts and maybe a 25pts upgrade to get an additionnal psykic level, but the hive tyrant are already good enough so I'm only adding it as an afterthougth

what do you guys think, some of these are too much?
constructive criticism please

**Valkyrie**

So you think the Swarmlord should be made better?

**Kain**

Valkyrie wrote:
So you think the Swarmlord should be made better?

A 2+ save at a higher cost isn't really all that unreasonable. A walkrant without AS strikes me as odd really for a pinnacle of the Hive Tyrant genus. Heck I'd also give him Regeneration for a further 15 points and assault grenades for five more points.

**Valkyrie**

No. Just no.

**BrotherOfBone**

Valkyrie wrote:
No. Just no.

-_- Why?

**fartherthanfar**

Constructive critism please Valkyrie.

In regards to the Swarmlord as mentionned I dont think this makes him better since I am proposing him costing 30pts more on an already expensive model, and also as mentionned on the OP most of what can harm him is already ap2, this is much more for the fluff of it, as Kain said the Swarmlord is the pinnacle of the Hive Tyrant genus, which is the pinnacle of the Nid army.
if I would propose those changes being for free then yes that would be making him stronger but as they are at a cost it makes him different, not better, in some circomstances, yes better, in others it makes him worst. Dark eldars for example only have dark lances which are ap2 they will chew through that armor exactly the same way as before, yet I paid 30pts more for him, the additionnal BS wont be worth 30pts thus worst vs dark lances... and lascannon, and monstrous creatures hits and powerfists and most of what you would normaly throw at him.

Actually, I am mostly interested in how to make these changes better, example: if you think I underpointed or overpointed a change, the reason why and what you think is a better pointing for it.
or if you think a change breaks the spirit of the unit and what could be a better patch.
or maybe just different upgrade options or better pricing for them.

basicly constructive criticism please
the naysayers can just pass by quietly for everyones benefit

**Valkyrie**

Ok, here's my constructive input:

- You want to take one of the deadliest CC-monsters in the game: A WS9, Monstrous Creature with a boatload of special rules, and you think that he needs Regeneration and a 2+ armour save in conjunction with his 5 wounds, Toughness 6, and the ability to boost it to T9 via Biomancy powers, for only 30 points? You really can't see the problem with that.

He's meant to go down to Lascannons and Dark Lances etc, of which a 2+ save will mean absolute jack against these just like a 3+. You want him to survive for longer, just buy a Tyrant Guard.

**BrotherOfBone**

fartherthanfar wrote:
Constructive critism please Valkyrie.

x) My point exactly

**Valkyrie**

BrotherOfBone wrote:
fartherthanfar wrote:
Constructive critism please Valkyrie.

x) My point exactly

Of which I have done. Was this post necessary?

**fartherthanfar**

thank you valkyrie, so your post was specifically about the Swarmlord then,
as you are mentionning its not really making him any better, (I didnt propose the regeneration) since lascannon and darklances will kill him just as easily, I was proposing the changes for fluffs sake more than wanting him to really be tougher since he is only situationally tougher and yet always more expensive.
I could easily do with not having that change though

do the other changes also bother you as much or was the swarmlord change the only one you dislike?

**Valkyrie**

fartherthanfar wrote:
Hi,
I love Nids but I think that alot of the most iconic dudes (Warriors and Genestealers come to mind) are not very competitive, here are a few rule changes that I think could push them to being able to fight better without making them overkill

Overall changes

Shadow in the warp
All LD test (psykic test too) are to be taken with an extra D6 taking out the lowest as long as at least 1 model with Shadow in the warp is on the table, if a psykic test is taken within 6" of a model with Shadow in the warp he doesnt take out the lowest dice.

This rule was ok but didnt give off the feel that the codex gave, where anyone in the whole world fighting nids (especially psykers) were feeling like their brains were getting torn inside out.

Regeneration
at the end of any turn the creature with Regeneration would has been killed roll a dice, on a 5+ he comes back to life with 1 wound, cannot regenerate more that turn.

I love the idea of a regenerating massive Nid monster but no one ever uses this option since it tends to always be wasted points which don't do a thing across the game so, this would give them an option to come back after getting shot to death and go on another little rampage

Creatures

Swarmlord
- lose flanking rerolls but gets 2+ArSv and Bs4 for 310pts (+30pts)

Nids are capable of getting both Bs4 and a 2+ArSv, no reason for the Ultra Legendary Swarmlord to not get it, I dont think this really makes him any stronger since he is already kinda too expensive and most of what has a chance at harming him will already have ap2 but this is for the Fluff more than anything.

Tyrant Guards
- lose 1Ws, 1Str and 2 Ini as well as Blind Rampage but reduces cost to 45pts a piece (-15pts) can exchange Rending Claws for BoneClaws (+1Ws & Str ap2 Unwieldy) @ 15pts

Tyrant Guards really seem expensive to me at 60pts a piece, I figure giving the Tyrants a slightly cheaper and less offensive option would be nice.

Tervigon
- Can Spawn Gaunts only twice per game and its always 12 that come out.
- Can choose to be carrying Hormagaunts instead of Termagaunts but this cost 15pts his Brood progeniture ability affects hormagaunts instead, Crushing claw @ 20pts (-5pts)

I can see that change working but I don't know if you'd average more Gaunts through this or the standard 3D6 method.

The Crushing Claws were a tad too expensive and I like the idea of spawning Hormagaunts too, hormagaunts are a bit better so I am making cost a bit more for it, also I heard some people being weirded out by the fact that Tervigons can sometimes sprout out 40 to 60 gaunts which is just too much.

Doom of Malantai
- 100pts (+10pts)

The Doom is vulnerable to Str8+ shots but damn is he good, giving him a point upgrade rounding him up to 100pts is a good idea

Zoanthropes
- 55pts (-5pts)
I really like the Zoan but I felt they are a bit too expensive

It's not really necessary, Zoanthropes are still one of the most competitive choices in the book.

Ymgarl Genestealers
- 21pts (-2pts)

once again, good but too expensive for their worth

Lictors
too much to do... getting ap3, a 4+Arsv and Shrouded while taking out the crap pheromone trail would be a good start probably with a point increase of 10pts but I dont know if I want to get into these guys

Deathleaper
- +20pts (160pts) Eternal Warrior, Feel no pain, ap3 , 4+ArSv and lose Pheromone Trail, Character

I love the idea of these stealth assassins and Deathleaper is awesome with his psychological aspect rules, his main problem was that he was too squishy and not that lethal so he had very few things he could threaten. given how expensive he was I felt some upgrades to make him be able to do his job properly (at a price) were a good idea. I might be overdoing it with him tho

Seems good, although Eternal Warrior seems a bit odd.

Warriors and Shriekes
- +1 Toughness -1 Wounds
- Toxin Sac 3pts (-2pts) Adrenal Glands 2pts (-3pts)
- Shriekes can get a 4+ArSv @ 3pts

I love this change, it allows them to survive a str 8 hit without exploding but doesnt require a point increase since they do lose a wound, also the upgrades were too expensives.

Genestealers
- Ini 5 (-1Ini ) lose Flanking but get a 4+ArSv, option to get Flanking and Stealth @ 3pts

The genestealers were always getting owned by bolters and flamers, giving them a 4+ArSv goes far in helping them and I feel losing flanking and 1 Ini is a slightly expensive but worthwhile exchange.

Hormagaunts
- AG and TS upgrade become 1 pts a piece
- Can run and then charge but as regular units only rolls 1 dice to run.

Sounds like a good idea

2 pts per upgrades was ridiculous for a 6pts model

Guargoyles
7pts each (+1pts)

these guys were just a bit too good I think

Raveners
- 38pts (+8pts) Eternal Warrior and 4+ArSv

problem with these guys was that they were just dying too fast before they would be able to do anything, I kindof like the idea of Raveners being eternal warriors, maybe im going to far with this one

Again, if they're dying too quickly then change your tactics, they don't need Eternal Warrior

Trygon
- Regeneration 30pts (+5pts), Trygon Prime 30pts (-10pts)

Carnifex
- 135pts (-25pts) Regeneration 20pts (-5pts)

Carny was just plainly too expensive for his worth.

Also remove the rule that all Carnis must be identical, and may operate independantly

Tyranofex and pyrovore
-dont get me started on these

Make the Flamespurt Ap3 and Torrent. Fin.

I know I left a few units alone that could stand to get a boost but I mostly touched up the guys I like which I felt needed a bit of a boost and downgraded some of the dudes that were a bit too strong.

Also wouldnt mind the option of a 5++ warpfield for the Hive tyrant @ 25pts and maybe a 25pts upgrade to get an additionnal psykic level, but the hive tyrant are already good enough so I'm only adding it as an afterthougth

what do you guys think, some of these are too much?
constructive criticism please

**fartherthanfar**

Also I just want to point out the fact that my philosiphy is that there isnt anything that is too strong as long as it is pointed appropriately, which is why I am mostly interested in what people think of the point value of the changes I made.
And of the spirit of it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a general question, is there any Nid player here that also feels that Zoanthrope could take a 5pts drop without becoming too strong.
I feel they are good but still a tad expensive.
anyone else?

**Kain**

Acid spray should also be AP3. I have several ideas for fixing rupture cannon Tfexes, first is that the rupture cannon should be AP2-1. Secondly is that the Tfex should get some more LRAT options like HVCs (which also should lose the -1 penalty on the vehicle damage chart) or Impaler cannons to replace the thorax swarm and cluster spines.

**Amoras**

Shadow in the warp
All LD test (psykic test too) are to be taken with an extra D6 taking out the lowest as long as at least 1 model with Shadow in the warp is on the table, if a psykic test is taken within 6" of a model with Shadow in the warp he doesnt take out the lowest dice.

This rule was ok but didnt give off the feel that the codex gave, where anyone in the whole world fighting nids (especially psykers) were feeling like their brains were getting torn inside out.

we don't really need this but its okey.

Regeneration
at the end of any turn the creature with Regeneration would has been killed roll a dice, on a 5+ he comes back to life with 1 wound, cannot regenerate more that turn.

I love the idea of a regenerating massive Nid monster but no one ever uses this option since it tends to always be wasted points which don't do a thing across the game so, this would give them an option to come back after getting shot to death and go on another little rampage

Na comming back should remain a Necron thing Nids stay dead they yust go down hard . Regen yust beign 5+ would fit better.
Creatures

Swarmlord
- lose flanking rerolls but gets 2+ArSv and Bs4 for 310pts (+30pts)

Nids are capable of getting both Bs4 and a 2+ArSv, no reason for the Ultra Legendary Swarmlord to not get it, I dont think this really makes him any stronger since he is already kinda too expensive and most of what has a chance at harming him will already have ap2 but this is for the Fluff more than anything.

I agree with the 2+ if the tyrant can have it so should the big guy, no need for the BS.

Tyrant Guards
- lose 1Ws, 1Str and 2 Ini as well as Blind Rampage but reduces cost to 45pts a piece (-15pts) can exchange Rending Claws for BoneClaws (+1Ws & Str ap2 Unwieldy) @ 15pts

They should keep Blind Rampage even if yust for flavor. Lowering the wounds would be counterproductive for something that is made exactly for the purpose of protecting someone.
More options is always good.

Tervigon
- Can Spawn Gaunts only twice per game and its always 12 that come out.
- Can choose to be carrying Hormagaunts instead of Termagaunts but this cost 15pts his Brood progeniture ability affects hormagaunts instead, Crushing claw @ 20pts (-5pts)

The Crushing Claws were a tad too expensive and I like the idea of spawning Hormagaunts too, hormagaunts are a bit better so I am making cost a bit more for it, also I heard some people being weirded out by the fact that Tervigons can sometimes sprout out 40 to 60 gaunts which is just too much.

Agree on the hormagaunts, claws are fine to. The set 12 spawn im not sure off.

Doom of Malantai
- 100pts (+10pts)

The Doom is vulnerable to Str8+ shots but damn is he good, giving him a point upgrade rounding him up to 100pts is a good idea

Agreed

Zoanthropes
- 55pts (-5pts)
I really like the Zoan but I felt they are a bit too expensive

Not needed there fine now

Ymgarl Genestealers
- 21pts (-2pts)

once again, good but too expensive for their worth

Seems fine

Deathleaper
- +20pts (160pts) Eternal Warrior, Feel no pain, ap3 , 4+ArSv and lose Pheromone Trail, Character

I love the idea of these stealth assassins and Deathleaper is awesome with his psychological aspect rules, his main problem was that he was too squishy and not that lethal so he had very few things he could threaten. given how expensive he was I felt some upgrades to make him be able to do his job properly (at a price) were a good idea. I might be overdoing it with him tho

No Eternal warrior Make him T5 instead, keep pheromone trail for sure.

Warriors and Shriekes
- +1 Toughness -1 Wounds
- Toxin Sac 3pts (-2pts) Adrenal Glands 2pts (-3pts)
- Shriekes can get a 4+ArSv @ 3pts

I love this change, it allows them to survive a str 8 hit without exploding but doesnt require a point increase since they do lose a wound, also the upgrades were too expensives.

Agree on most but feel the sacks and glands should yust remain at 5.

Genestealers
- Ini 5 (-1Ini ) lose Flanking but get a 4+ArSv, option to get Flanking and Stealth @ 3pts

The genestealers were always getting owned by bolters and flamers, giving them a 4+ArSv goes far in helping them and I feel losing flanking and 1 Ini is a slightly expensive but worthwhile exchange.

3 points is to cheap for those options. The save is good.

Hormagaunts
- AG and TS upgrade become 1 pts a piece
- Can run and then charge but as regular units only rolls 1 dice to run.

2 pts per upgrades was ridiculous for a 6pts model

Agree on the points. Unsure about the charge,

Guargoyles
7pts each (+1pts)

these guys were just a bit too good I think

They are fine as they are gaining speed but losing scoring and tervigon interaction compared to Termagaunts.

Raveners
- 38pts (+8pts) Eternal Warrior and 4+ArSv

problem with these guys was that they were just dying too fast before they would be able to do anything, I kindof like the idea of Raveners being eternal warriors, maybe im going to far with this one

No eternal warrior. rather make themm T5 keep there wounds at 3 but a 6+ save.

Trygon
- Regeneration 30pts (+5pts), Trygon Prime 30pts (-10pts)

Nowone takes regen why make it even more points?

Carnifex
- 135pts (-25pts) Regeneration 20pts (-5pts)

Carny was just plainly too expensive for his worth.

True, but iv seen better suggestions ( see the carnifex tread )

Also wouldnt mind the option of a 5++ warpfield for the Hive tyrant @ 25pts and maybe a 25pts upgrade to get an additionnal psykic level, but the hive tyrant are already good enough so I'm only adding it as an afterthougth

He could get the warpfield as an option aslong as it excludes him from having wings. Both seems to much.

**Amoras**

Amoras wrote:
Shadow in the warp
All LD test (psykic test too) are to be taken with an extra D6 taking out the lowest as long as at least 1 model with Shadow in the warp is on the table, if a psykic test is taken within 6" of a model with Shadow in the warp he doesnt take out the lowest dice.

This rule was ok but didnt give off the feel that the codex gave, where anyone in the whole world fighting nids (especially psykers) were feeling like their brains were getting torn inside out.

we don't really need this but its okey. Wouldn't do it if we are getting improvements on other places aswell.

Regeneration
at the end of any turn the creature with Regeneration would has been killed roll a dice, on a 5+ he comes back to life with 1 wound, cannot regenerate more that turn.

I love the idea of a regenerating massive Nid monster but no one ever uses this option since it tends to always be wasted points which don't do a thing across the game so, this would give them an option to come back after getting shot to death and go on another little rampage

Na comming back should remain a Necron thing Nids stay dead they yust go down hard . Regen yust beign 5+ would fit better.
Creatures

Swarmlord
- lose flanking rerolls but gets 2+ArSv and Bs4 for 310pts (+30pts)

Nids are capable of getting both Bs4 and a 2+ArSv, no reason for the Ultra Legendary Swarmlord to not get it, I dont think this really makes him any stronger since he is already kinda too expensive and most of what has a chance at harming him will already have ap2 but this is for the Fluff more than anything.

I agree with the 2+ if the tyrant can have it so should the big guy, no need for the BS.

Tyrant Guards
- lose 1Ws, 1Str and 2 Ini as well as Blind Rampage but reduces cost to 45pts a piece (-15pts) can exchange Rending Claws for BoneClaws (+1Ws & Str ap2 Unwieldy) @ 15pts

They should keep Blind Rampage even if yust for flavor. Lowering the wounds would be counterproductive for something that is made exactly for the purpose of protecting someone.
More options is always good.

Tervigon
- Can Spawn Gaunts only twice per game and its always 12 that come out.
- Can choose to be carrying Hormagaunts instead of Termagaunts but this cost 15pts his Brood progeniture ability affects hormagaunts instead, Crushing claw @ 20pts (-5pts)

The Crushing Claws were a tad too expensive and I like the idea of spawning Hormagaunts too, hormagaunts are a bit better so I am making cost a bit more for it, also I heard some people being weirded out by the fact that Tervigons can sometimes sprout out 40 to 60 gaunts which is just too much.

Agree on the hormagaunts, claws are fine to. The set 12 spawn im not sure off.

Doom of Malantai
- 100pts (+10pts)

The Doom is vulnerable to Str8+ shots but damn is he good, giving him a point upgrade rounding him up to 100pts is a good idea

Agreed

Zoanthropes
- 55pts (-5pts)
I really like the Zoan but I felt they are a bit too expensive

Not needed there fine now

Ymgarl Genestealers
- 21pts (-2pts)

once again, good but too expensive for their worth

Seems fine

Deathleaper
- +20pts (160pts) Eternal Warrior, Feel no pain, ap3 , 4+ArSv and lose Pheromone Trail, Character

I love the idea of these stealth assassins and Deathleaper is awesome with his psychological aspect rules, his main problem was that he was too squishy and not that lethal so he had very few things he could threaten. given how expensive he was I felt some upgrades to make him be able to do his job properly (at a price) were a good idea. I might be overdoing it with him tho

No Eternal warrior Make him T5 instead, keep pheromone trail for sure.

Warriors and Shriekes
- +1 Toughness -1 Wounds
- Toxin Sac 3pts (-2pts) Adrenal Glands 2pts (-3pts)
- Shriekes can get a 4+ArSv @ 3pts

I love this change, it allows them to survive a str 8 hit without exploding but doesnt require a point increase since they do lose a wound, also the upgrades were too expensives.

Agree on most but feel the sacks and glands should yust remain at 5.

Genestealers
- Ini 5 (-1Ini ) lose Flanking but get a 4+ArSv, option to get Flanking and Stealth @ 3pts

The genestealers were always getting owned by bolters and flamers, giving them a 4+ArSv goes far in helping them and I feel losing flanking and 1 Ini is a slightly expensive but worthwhile exchange.

3 points is to cheap for those options. The save is good.

Hormagaunts
- AG and TS upgrade become 1 pts a piece
- Can run and then charge but as regular units only rolls 1 dice to run.

2 pts per upgrades was ridiculous for a 6pts model

Agree on the points. Unsure about the charge,

Guargoyles
7pts each (+1pts)

these guys were just a bit too good I think

They are fine as they are gaining speed but losing scoring and tervigon interaction compared to Termagaunts.

Raveners
- 38pts (+8pts) Eternal Warrior and 4+ArSv

problem with these guys was that they were just dying too fast before they would be able to do anything, I kindof like the idea of Raveners being eternal warriors, maybe im going to far with this one

No eternal warrior. rather make themm T5 keep there wounds at 3 but a 6+ save.

Trygon
- Regeneration 30pts (+5pts), Trygon Prime 30pts (-10pts)

Nowone takes regen why make it even more points?

Carnifex
- 135pts (-25pts) Regeneration 20pts (-5pts)

Carny was just plainly too expensive for his worth.

True, but iv seen better suggestions ( see the carnifex tread )

Also wouldnt mind the option of a 5++ warpfield for the Hive tyrant @ 25pts and maybe a 25pts upgrade to get an additionnal psykic level, but the hive tyrant are already good enough so I'm only adding it as an afterthougth

He could get the warpfield as an option aslong as it excludes him from having wings. Both seems to much.

**fartherthanfar**

thx Amoras

I really appreciate the comments

for Regeneration I still really like the classic scene of the regenerating beast coming back from being dead when your back is turned, who else here feels that regenerating on a 5+ is a better patch? (necrons can repair, Nids can regenerate?)

(btw the Trygons regeneration is more expensive due to me proposing making it better)

the extra BS on the Swarmlord is for his relatively unlikely potential psykic attacks which I dont like the idea of him failing to hit more than half the time due to psyckic test and deny the witch coupled with a low Bs3. he is the main dude, if Zoan can have Bs4 so can the Swarmlord.
once again reafirming that these changes to him arent meant to making him better, just more fluffy and in spirit with the story and his true badassness, if you guys think that 30pts more and losing an ability (flanking rerolls) is to cheap for these upgrades then let me know.

for Tyrant guard I never mentionned lowering wounds so im not sure where you are getting that

Deathleaper seems like a loner to me and the pheremone trails seem kinda useless as they dont help him deepstrike as he isnt on the board when tryin so seems kinda silly due to more than +1 on reserve roll doesnt do a thing in 6th and we already have 2 good ways to get it with the swarmlord and the hive comander tyrants, which would start on the board so not a 33% chance of it not being useable.

you would really pay 5pts per warrior for a potential +1 str... I wouldnt.

for genestealers Flanking and stealh option how much do you think should be the price for it so people would still want to use it over putting them in a mycetic spore or coming out behind a Trygon.

Guargoyles gain acid sting and become jump infantry over termagaunts, jump infantry is usually 4,5,10pts for infantry, guargoyles are getting this plus an additionnal ability for 1 pts, sure they are losing scoring (in most missions) but the tervigon interaction is pointed from the tervigon and potential drawbacks of it. making it cost 2 pts for this I feel is fair considering the other upgrades im proposing on the army.
It cant all be good.

for the Raveners changes I like that option your proposing (i assume thay are to stay at 30pts base) but them being digger makes me think they should have a slightly decent ArSv to support the rough terrain. meh I suppose the 5t can mean they can handle it.

I never consider the Carny but I suppose I did go a bit simple with him, the other threads do have it better

for the Hive tyrants potential upgrade with the 5++ do you think that making the upgrade more expensive then 25pts could make it more acceptable or just that having a 5++ when being a FMC is too much,
I personnaly dont think so since a bloodthirster could have 6wounds with a 3+arSv, a 5++, it will not die, and even a 4+ feel no pain = way tougher while being a FMC.

**Kain**

Tyrant guard should get an option for 2+ saves, or perhaps just 2+ saves by default. The fluff goes on and on about how well armored they are and how they can shrug off anti-tank weapons...yet a krak missile blows right through them.

Wut?

**fartherthanfar**

meh I find that for a relatively cheap model, having T6 2 W and a 3+ArSv is pretty freaking tough and well armored, and yes they can take a lascannon hit in the face and then chew your genitals off so I think they are ok in terms of toughness.

**Amoras**

fartherthanfar wrote:
t
for Tyrant guard I never mentionned lowering wounds so im not sure where you are getting that

I misread the lose 1WS for 1W. My bad.

**fartherthanfar**

its all good bro

**chrisrawr**

Personally, I'm fine with seeing Swarmlord at 300-350 points with 2+ Armour or a 4+ Invuln.

People who think T9 Swarmlord with an actual save is gross have never fought Chaos Daemons and can honestly not complain about high T, good-save creature... with 6+ wounds.

**Kain**

fartherthanfar wrote:
meh I find that for a relatively cheap model, having T6 2 W and a 3+ArSv is pretty freaking tough and well armored, and yes they can take a lascannon hit in the face and then chew your genitals off so I think they are ok in terms of toughness.

The fluff is incongruous with a 3+, which describes them as having no eyes so they can have even more armor. And look at the thing, it's almost 90% armor plating as thick as a guard'sman's foot. Armored shell should at least be an option.

Wings on Tyrant guards would also be nice so they can follow flyrants, although the mental image of the living bowling ball that is the TG flying through the air makes me giggle.

**Hoernakex**

I agree that if anything in the codex should have a 2+ armor save, it should be the Tyrant Guard.

Also, yes, Warriors should be T5 with 2 wounds. That'd be great

All I feel that genestealers need is the ability to assault straight out of an outflank.
Or give all genestealers the deployment option of Ymgarls, for a moderate increase in points.

Carnifexes should be made into a more rampagey powerhouse. Better amor save, or more wounds, and they should have It Will Not Die.

**fartherthanfar**

The Tyrant Guards massive armor is taken into account not only from the 3+ ArSv (which is the equivalent of Space marine Power armor... which is insanely good armor, its the same armor a Hive Tyrant, Tervigons, Trygons and Carnifexs have but on the body of a something thats 1/6th to 1/12th their size so yeah, he is mostly just armor plating with a small body inside)
It also takes into account his extremely high Toughness of 6, if you look at the model they really aren't that big, having T6 is huge for a model of that size, can you think of anything else that would be their size that has 6 of Toughness... ok there is Mephiston but everyone knows that he's cheating.
my point being that their general stats do reflect the fluff and the story of them and they are very tough so they can do their job of bodyguard well enough.
I personnaly prefer keeping the 2+ ArSv for the biggest and baddest of the Nids, its suppose to be something special I think.
Also Tyrant guards are expensive enough as it is and im not looking to make them more expensive, giving them a much better Armor or wings seems a bit overkill.... I guess more options are always fun but we would have to remember that those are very good upgrades and would be expensive to add, I figure 20pts for wings and 15pts for 2+ ArSv (not possible to combine with wings)

**Kain**

Armored Shell and Wings aren't compatible on Tyrants anyway, so that'd be an acceptable trade off. Perhaps regen would also be good for a pricey but usable upgrade to further aid in it's duty as the most glorious meatshield of the swarm.

But again, the sight of a killer armadillo like the Tyrant Guard flying through the air may cause some double takes. Which would be good for the shock factor if nothing else.

**fartherthanfar**

oh yeah, Wraith guard have T6 too...
but Wraithbone is also kinda over the top good material.