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They don't have it yet at my FLGS, curse GW logistics!

Just from what I've seen, this codex seems to have some decent balance in some respects. The really powerful units are suitably expensive in order to prevent spamming, and the cheaper units have some really nice buffs that makes taking them, and more importantly finding effective ways to use them, more appealing.

Now for the scary part (for non-Eldar players anyway). The sheer amount of ranged AP2 or better is crazy. The Scorpions claw not being unwieldy makes Striking Scorpions an auto-include. People that say the WK is overcosted apparently didn't read the battle report from the last WD. The suncannon/scatter laser combo can easily wipe out a squad per turn, and with a T8, 6 wounds, and a 3+/5++ save, you have a very survivable unit that is generally going to get your points back pretty quickly. Warpspiders, which were already good, got so much better and got cheaper. Monofilimant makes them S7 against non-walker vehicles, and grants psuedo-Rending.

Basically, the entire army is a big middle finger to MEQ/TEQ armies, but also is pretty potent against MC heavy armies as well, with all the auto wound and high strength ranged weapons.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Just from what I've seen, this codex seems to have some decent balance in some respects. The really powerful units are suitably expensive in order to prevent spamming, and the cheaper units have some really nice buffs that makes taking them, and more importantly finding effective ways to use them, more appealing.

Now for the scary part (for non-Eldar players anyway). The sheer amount of ranged AP2 or better is crazy. The Scorpions claw not being unwieldy makes Striking Scorpions an auto-include. People that say the WK is overcosted apparently didn't read the battle report from the last WD. The suncannon/scatter laser combo can easily wipe out a squad per turn, and with a T8, 6 wounds, and a 3+/5++ save, you have a very survivable unit that is generally going to get your points back pretty quickly. Warpspiders, which were already good, got so much better and got cheaper. Monofilimant makes them S7 against non-walker vehicles, and grants psuedo-Rending.

Basically, the entire army is a big middle finger to MEQ/TEQ armies, but also is pretty potent against MC heavy armies as well, with all the auto wound and high strength ranged weapons.

Generally speaking though, Eldar have always been a massive middle finger to Space Marines.

On the other hand, I think the only army that's actually squishier than Eldar are the Dark Eldar. So sure, while they can delete whole MEQ/TEQ squads piecemeal, if they do get hit in return they'll fall flat like the little girls they are!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Just from what I've seen, this codex seems to have some decent balance in some respects. The really powerful units are suitably expensive in order to prevent spamming, and the cheaper units have some really nice buffs that makes taking them, and more importantly finding effective ways to use them, more appealing.

Now for the scary part (for non-Eldar players anyway). The sheer amount of ranged AP2 or better is crazy. The Scorpions claw not being unwieldy makes Striking Scorpions an auto-include. People that say the WK is overcosted apparently didn't read the battle report from the last WD. The suncannon/scatter laser combo can easily wipe out a squad per turn, and with a T8, 6 wounds, and a 3+/5++ save, you have a very survivable unit that is generally going to get your points back pretty quickly. Warpspiders, which were already good, got so much better and got cheaper. Monofilimant makes them S7 against non-walker vehicles, and grants psuedo-Rending.

Basically, the entire army is a big middle finger to MEQ/TEQ armies, but also is pretty potent against MC heavy armies as well, with all the auto wound and high strength ranged weapons.

Generally speaking though, Eldar have always been a massive middle finger to Space Marines.

On the other hand, I think the only army that's actually squishier than Eldar are the Dark Eldar. So sure, while they can delete whole MEQ/TEQ squads piecemeal, if they do get hit in return they'll fall flat like the little girls they are!

Eldar can be quite survivable. Think about ''speed is their armor''. Serpents are playable again. Iyanden is very durable. Some combos can improve survivabilty. In toto, I think that Eldar ist quite playable in the new edition.

Another fun rule I found, Illic joins 10 d-scythe wraithguard and deploys 1" away from the enemy. Go ahead and charge that, or don't and die even worse.

Now that wraithguard/blades can be taken as troops without having to be the maximum squad size, I see a lot of potential for a wraith army, since you can now stick them in transports and have them were they need to be by turn 3 at the latest. Also, 10 wraithblades with Forceshields and Ghost-axes babysat by a spiritseer that manages to get the protect and conceal powers are going to be impossible to shift from an objective. And if a Farseer manages to cast Fortune on them...

I can't help but feel that will be FAQ'd out, it's ridiculously unfluffy, ridiculously powerful and it just feels like they haven't really thought it through.

Im sure it will be FAQ'd to read "unit of patherfinders/rangers".

Because as is you can infiltrate a unit right in front of some so close that they cant use template weapons. Mwahahahahaha.

I don't see why they would FAQ it his cover boosts to the unit right? 2+ cover wraithguard first turn in some shrubs behind that one dangerous tank/ super unit every codex has!

Its more that he can infiltrate them 1" away from the enemy.

Charging the unit is suicide and shooting at it with a 3+ cover save just isn't good. So you are basically going to take D-scythes to the face.

Ally with baron so you have a 70% chance of going first.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Another fun rule I found, Illic joins 10 d-scythe wraithguard and deploys 1" away from the enemy. Go ahead and charge that, or don't and die even worse.

This doesn't work, Illic has Infiltrate, only in the deployment phase does he grant Infiltrate to any unit he joins, at this stage (you've already attached him to a unit and deployed) you can no longer infiltrate.
You can however choose to keep the unit in reserves and Outflank.

Its the same as shrike, it works.

It does work (IC joins squad at deployment in reserve, squad infiltrates at the beginning of turn 1, thats how it works). Also, Karandras offers the same opportunity (albeit without the point-blank infiltrate). Good catch on Baron btw, makes the combo even more dirty.

There does seem to be a load of these tricks hidden in the book, took some time to get over the WTF I CAN'T SPAM FORTUNE TO WIN to realise that there is a lot more finesse to the new book that forcing insane durability on a deathstar.

the heavy weapons platform being a model (with a profile) is kind of a nerf for guardians.. can be targeted by precision shots, removed due to closest model wound allocation, et cetera.

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
It does work (IC joins squad at deployment in reserve, squad infiltrates at the beginning of turn 1, thats how it works).

Infiltrate is done at the end of deployment before scouts are done. So it actually doesn't work unless GW specifically FAQs saying an IC can join and then that squad can infiltrate.

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
It does work (IC joins squad at deployment in reserve, squad infiltrates at the beginning of turn 1, thats how it works). Also, Karandras offers the same opportunity (albeit without the point-blank infiltrate). Good catch on Baron btw, makes the combo even more dirty.

There does seem to be a load of these tricks hidden in the book, took some time to get over the WTF I CAN'T SPAM FORTUNE TO WIN to realise that there is a lot more finesse to the new book that forcing insane durability on a deathstar.

That's really it, so many people are butt hurt over the psychic powers getting nerfed they don't realize that you get powers and abilities for free built in, scatter lasers are awesome examples of this. I was debating getting a farseer with guide and the divination primis power for "double guide" but I noticed most of my list rerolls its hits anyway and the BS4 makes it pretty redundant. The illic bomb wont be popular but its fun to bust out at least once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 elphilo wrote:

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
It does work (IC joins squad at deployment in reserve, squad infiltrates at the beginning of turn 1, thats how it works).

Infiltrate is done at the end of deployment before scouts are done. So it actually doesn't work unless GW specifically FAQs saying an IC can join and then that squad can infiltrate.

Explain how shrike does it then.

The FAQ gives shrike explicit permission to do it. That said, it also implies that characters join units prior to deployment

I like the idea ofa ten man ranger group plus the HQ guy who gives them a great buff (when you spend the points. Just a fun ally group.

Exactly, and the infiltrator rules says "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule"

Why the hell would they write that if it wasn't meant to pass to the unit?

Anyone notice that pathfinders have shrouded and stealth while nightspear - their supposed leader - has no stealth?

Not looking at the Codex from a 'relative power' viewpoint, but from a 'makes sense in the fluff' perspective, I feel that it is really poorly thought out.

Spiritseers make Wraithguard and Wraithblades Troops. OK, good, so far. This allows you to field an Iyanden-themed army, but then Wraithlords and Wraithknights both remain Heavy Support, so Iyanden armies have the same level of access to Wraithlords and Wraithknights as every other Craftworld?

Phoenix Lords don't affect the force organization, so a Phoenix lord showing up in a battle doesn't in any way increase the total number of Aspect Warriors from his shrine that show up?

Eldar Missile Launchers now have ammunition to target fliers, but almost all units which can take EML can't take that ammunition.

Banshees are an acrobatic Aspect focused on decisive melee assaults at speed. They aren't equipped with grenades, so their vaunted speed disappears when assaulting units in cover.

Eldar Warlocks and Farseers walk a Path for years, decades, or centuries, developing and honing their psychic abilities. Farseers view the future and intervene in pivotal battles which turn the tide of fate to protect the Eldar. They all randomly generate their psychic powers, so the precognitive Eldar don't know what psychics will be present in the army until deployment.

Wraithguard, Wraithblades, and Wraithlords do not see as mortals do, and in fact, aren't even equipped with eyes or visual sensors, but instead, view the shifting warp energies around us. They are still blinded by the bright flashes of light generated by Wraithknight shields.

Wraithlords have a wide variety of weapon systems available to be mounted on their chassis. Wraithknights, the elite, rare, exceptional wraith construct, have significantly less options.



Game balance and properly designed codexes are important (no matter what GW thinks), but your rules need to reflect the 'reality' you want to present. Balance the stuff through points costs and force organization limitations, but for all that's holy, if something should work a particular way, make sure it works that way. If something makes sense, then make sure it happens in game. Dumb little stuff like this makes Warhammer 40,000 much less interesting as a shared universe, and much more like a really expensive, really poorly balanced board game.

I might be one of the few people to say this but I enjoyed my WraithKnihgt [Paco be his name] He managed to wreck a riptide which was awesome and even then managed to kill MORE Tau because they decided to camp in the back.

Also weapons- Sweet warhost of Khaine while the necrons can say "Our most basic gun can kill your most complicated tank." The Eldar can say "Our most basic of guns can kill your best troops."

Da Butcha wrote:
Spiritseers make Wraithguard and Wraithblades Troops. OK, good, so far. This allows you to field an Iyanden-themed army, but then Wraithlords and Wraithknights both remain Heavy Support, so Iyanden armies have the same level of access to Wraithlords and Wraithknights as every other Craftworld?

Iyanden supplement.

Da Butcha wrote:
Phoenix Lords don't affect the force organization, so a Phoenix lord showing up in a battle doesn't in any way increase the total number of Aspect Warriors from his shrine that show up?

Biel Tan supplement. Guaranteed.

Da Butcha wrote:
Banshees are an acrobatic Aspect focused on decisive melee assaults at speed. They aren't equipped with grenades, so their vaunted speed disappears when assaulting units in cover.

Not uncommon from GW lately. Tyranids have some of the most ferocious melee troops in the game and almost army wide lack assault grenades. Seems GW wants melee specialists to still have some situational issues with melee.

Da Butcha wrote:
Eldar Warlocks and Farseers walk a Path for years, decades, or centuries, developing and honing their psychic abilities. Farseers view the future and intervene in pivotal battles which turn the tide of fate to protect the Eldar. They all randomly generate their psychic powers, so the precognitive Eldar don't know what psychics will be present in the army until deployment.

So does every army in the game. Deal with it.

Da Butcha wrote:
Wraithlords have a wide variety of weapon systems available to be mounted on their chassis. Wraithknights, the elite, rare, exceptional wraith construct, have significantly less options.

It's almost as if they're different units!

Da Butcha wrote:
Game balance and properly designed codexes are important (no matter what GW thinks), but your rules need to reflect the 'reality' you want to present. Balance the stuff through points costs and force organization limitations, but for all that's holy, if something should work a particular way, make sure it works that way. If something makes sense, then make sure it happens in game. Dumb little stuff like this makes Warhammer 40,000 much less interesting as a shared universe, and much more like a really expensive, really poorly balanced board game.

You're missing Supplements from your conclusion. GW don't want to give you all of the potential army lists in the codex, they want to sell you supplements that let you make those alternate armies.

 Sasori wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Just glancing through mine now and Im sure glad I didn't open the wraithknight because that think is crap for 300pts, I'd rather take 2 wraithlords.

besides that:
- Farseers: terrible, I rolled it out a bunch of times and sometimes got Doom fortune, the other powers just blow. I even rolled Eldrad and managed it a few times. If I cant rely on them getting good powers they are a waste of points.

-Warlocks: also terrible, seriously you cant rely on a solid battle plan with these things unless you are getting shrouding, and they cant even join wraithguard!

-Spiritseer: cheaper then I expected but otherwise good, 2 rolls on that table is better then one, still random but its better then nothing.

-Wraithguard/blades: No battle trance is a bummer, but I think having a unit of D scythes will be a combat deterrent unless your enemys want to lose half a unit on the way in. Overall happy with these guys.

-Wraithknight: Waste of points, 280pts for 3 s6 plasma cannon shots? Next.

-Jetbikes: Sweet Jesus, why are the models so bad because these things are busted.

Warpspiders: 6 + 2D6 + D6 + shoot + 2D6 move? Holy feth balls!! and they are S7 against vehicles and everything i3 and lower? Give me 30.

I think Farseers may be best served not taking the default lore, there are just too many bad powers there. Divination and Telepathy are both great though, I see no reason not to roll on those.

I think ideally you have the Farseer roll at least once on the RoF table to try and get Fortune. If not Guide then take your rolls on the BRB.

Actually its 6 plasma cannon shots. Considering that a Plasma Sponson Leman Russ Executioner only gets 5 for 240 and can Gets Hot!, it actually isnt such a bad buy. Also the Wraithknight will easily tower over an ADL or other low terrain negating cover.

Warlocks role has changed for certain but you can always take your roll and then default to conceal. I think Warlocks are a lot better than people think.

I can see why some are happy with the codex and others are not. I'd bet most Saim-Hann and Iyanden players are happy with it. I'm not so happy. My favorite unit, the foot seer council, got ruined. The combination of random powers, casting off Ld 8, insta-death perils, and no wave serpent option makes them a very poor use of points. Leadership 8 really? In their own description it says they were aspect warriors (Ld 9) who develop their psychic powers and become leaders in the military. If anything, it should go up from Ld 9.

I think warlocks can still be very powerful on bikes but I hate the jetbike models and I don't want to ruin my foot warlocks to make them. I refuse to buy the current bikes which are unfortunately the unit the probably got the best buff.

It seems the book is full of missed opportunities too. Swooping Hawks being able to attack flyers in some way. Banshee masks stopping overwatch. Exarch powers on Autarchs. Missile launchers getting flakk on more than just walkers. No way to have an assault vehicle. No shifts in the organization chart.

There are a few WTF things in there also. Nightvision and precision shot as upgrades for the Avatar? Crushing Blow for the Fire Dragon exarch? Runes of Warding? Banshees not being able to assault into cover at initiative? Some of the point costs (Autarch)?

I have to admit that some of the stuff is cool though. The way Warp spiders move now. The lance option on the fire prism. Swooping hawks not scattering. The madiblasters, even though it isn't as strong. Laser lock on scatter lasers. War walkers are still great. Vypers are better than they were. Cheaper star cannons and bright lances.

It's going to take some time for me to get used to. I play my first game with the codex tomorrow. I'm using a slightly modified list that I've used a few times before against this friend, both games were very close. I'm curious to see how well it works against him.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Exactly, and the infiltrator rules says "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule"

Why the hell would they write that if it wasn't meant to pass to the unit?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/530974.page

Here is a YMDC thread about it.


As of now, RAW you cannot Use Illics rule to infiltrate anyone, that does not already have the infiltrate rule. Feel free to hash it out there.

How exactly does the laser lock rule work? I'm curious as to if it would work with battle brother allies.

Can you split Psyker rolls between different disciplines? I thought you couldn't but I've seen several people mention it.

Regarding Laserlock, you fire that weapon first. if it hits, any other shooting attacks by THAT MODEL re-roll to hit. It's not useful for most things.

 shamikebab wrote:

Regarding Laserlock, you fire that weapon first. if it hits, any other shooting attacks by THAT MODEL re-roll to hit. It's not useful for most things.

Yeah I just found this out on a different site. Shame I was hoping to use it with my Tau

Seems cool enough. More interested in it than I am in whatever variety of marines came before it at any rate (was it spiky marines, or emo marines? I forgot).. Though I can't say whether or not it's balanced or not, I'm no veteran Eldar player.