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Trying to do a wrath army supported by warp spiders. Wraiths are tough but only a 3+ armour and short ranged guns is a weakness. I am worried by the low model count in this list. However utilising the near unkillable Wave Serpents for a turn 1 rush will put them where they hurt most. Supported by the torrent S7 fire of the now almost mandatory Warp Spiders for a short ranged fire power army:

Farseer: witnessing, warding, Spirit Stone, spear 145
Spiritseer 70

5 Wraithguard: Wave Serpent: Bright Lance, holofields, cannon 305
5 Wraithguard: D-Scythes - Wave Serpent: Bright Lance, holofields, cannon 355
5 Wraithblades: Ghost axes - Wave Serpent: Bright Lance, holofields, cannon 305

10 Warp Spiders 190
10 Warp Spiders 190
10 Warp Spiders 190

1750

What do you think?

No guide on Farseer?

This list is made with the new codex, so you don't buy the powers anymore, but randomly roll for them, although if i recall correctly guide is the primaris power.

Well as guide is a primaris power I'll probably take it. Though prescience will probably be my go to.

 masquerade81 wrote:
This list is made with the new codex, so you don't buy the powers anymore, but randomly roll for them, although if i recall correctly guide is the primaris power.

Ah yes well that would explain it.

Not sure I really fancy the idea of SUCH an elite/short-ranged army. But it could very well work - I think it might be better to swap a unit of warp spiders and the farseer for a 4th wraith unit+transport - after all the game is won by objective claiming in most missions.

My main concern with this army is what will happen if you come up against a full assault force? While well armoured, only 5 models have any real punch. Relatively few low-ap weapons (whether melee or ranged) will be enough to take out a chunk of your troops.

I would suggest triming the Spiders down a bit so you can fit a unit of Jetbikes (ideally two) into this list. You also don't need Warding or Witnessing so you can trim a few points there as well. The only Farseer upgrades that are worth considering are Jetbike, Singing Spear and the one per army Spirit Stone which lets you drop all the ML2 powers down to ML1. Losing your Rune Armour for a turn is very rarely going to be an issue, you shouldn't be tanking shots with a Farseer even with Fortune up anyway. Warding is completely pointless because you will already be Denying on a 4+ against most things anyway, and the most powerful/popular powers are blessings that you can't Deny in the first place.

Witnessing I want to keep Warding was because I had a spare 15 points.

I'm not dropping any Warp Spiders at all they are the biggest winners of this book. I like the JBs but this list is Wraith Heavy so no room for them.

I think I have enough scoring. Those Wraithguard are tough and I wont commit them unless they are in position for maximum damage and minimum reprisals. Hopefully the Spiders will take most of the flakes early on.

So . . . you're just chinning off peoples' feedback on the grounds that in fact the list is fine already? Why did you ask for feedback in the first place?

Although warp spiders are good, I agree with Powerguy that you could lose some for scoring jetbikes. 3 5-model units which all have to go forward to engage the enemy are not really much scoring. And I definitely agree about the farseer upgrades.

Ghost axe WG are coll looking but awful IMO.

The winners of that book are the GJB. Kelly loves forcing people into taking one troop choice.

17 pts for a unit that can go anywhere on the table in one turn and has a marines profile except the strength but higher initiative HoW and a twin links pseudo rending weapon is stupidly under priced.

The unit has SO many perks its silly. Did I mention they are 17pts?

They seriously need to have Kelley's head checked after that one.

WOW, jetbikes do seam unbalanced now.

I am telling you right now that your list will fall harder than an all guardian list. Small groups of WG are never a smart idea and should always take a max of 10. Blades are the same way. It's nice that you are thinking of a way to get them up the field faster, but they would be lacking in firepower, survive ability, and scare factor.

Right now your list is centered around WS and NOT WG. Unless that is how you want it, you might want to change your list up a lot.

Red corsair you say the GJBs are 17 points well the spiders are 19 almost as mobile and get +2 S +3 against most vehicles (when S7 makes a difference) and rend to AP1 (further increasing their vehicle stopping power). For me they are the biggest winners of the codex. The bikes a close second (scorpion exarchs in 3rd). But as I said I'm not interested in putting GJBs into this list.

Gtka666 please explain how the 10s have more fire power than my 5s. Given my 5s are cheaper and will all get to shoot whilst 10s walk slowly forward with their 12" gun probably shooting turn 3 with 3-4 guys. Now that you can have 5s as troops and how tough Wave Serpents are in turn 1 that just seems the best way to utilise them.

Though I agree that the Wraithblades seem like they will probably prove to be lacklustre like the Lycheguard and Preatorians of the Necrons. I will probably swap them for another unit of standard Wraithguard. I could use the sword guys but AP3 concerns me but on the flip side they don't want to ever be fighting terminators anyway. Even the axe guys will struggle, though on the charge they are favourite against anything but TH/SS terminators with no assault vehicle getting the charge is nigh impossible without getting lucky.

AP1 comes into play when rolling to wound, not armor penetration rolls. They are not ap1 against vehicles. While Warp Spiders can take down vehicles do not rely on AP1.

The d scythes appear very expensive and one shot. Granted, I havenot used the new codex yet, but that was my initial impression.

Good point on the Ap1. The spiders are still excellent S7 spam. Short ranged but with the mobility to mitigate that.

The D-Scythes are pretty brutal and they're not just 1 shot they're also great assault deterrent stick them in front of an elite assault unit and dare them to charge you. Making sure any ID wounds go on characters. Even with the Scythes the unit is still just Terminator points. 210 doesn't seem that steep for what they can achieve.

But this is all theory hammer. I can see it going both ways 10 points is a lot. So until I get them on the table I can't know for sure.

Fair point regarding using d scythes as an assault deterrent.

I think all the wraithguard weapons are a waste of time except D-scythes. They ignore armor, they ignore cover, the only thing that doesn't get eaten alive is stormshield termies. Ghost axes are OK, but it's even tougher to get WG into assault than it is to get those D-scythes into range without your transport being popped.

Warp spiders are indeed sweet in the new book, but they don't make an army by themselves. 30 is just too many. Your army is too short ranged and too fragile. Not to mention how you're completely helpless against flyers and flying monstrous creatures. No thanks.

17 pts for a unit that can go anywhere on the table in one turn and has a marines profile except the strength but higher initiative HoW and a twin links pseudo rending weapon is stupidly under priced.

Well, small units break too easily. One casualty and the unit might be gone.

Warp Spiders will not make it into my competitive lists since in my local meta Helldrakes are everywhere.

If you take Scatterlasers and Cannons on the serpents you will have decent anti-air, the twin linked Scatters have a reasonable chance to make the Cannon and the s7 shield shots twin-linked.

Good Idea I'll make that change. Hadn't even thought about that with the Serpents. Sure wish you could put Warlocks into Wraith units...