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Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm questioning what would be the point in taking valu's wrath platforms which make elder much more stationary as opposed to the fire prisms which are seeming the GO TO choice for pretty much everything it looks like. Heck, I think they are better than hammerheads from Tau now lol

Fire prisms are much better with holo fields and spirit stones then vwp imo, specially with the new lance mode.

I'm looking at Pathfinders as real winners in the new codex. Illic may be mandatory but he is hardly a tax with the potential to one shot most anything in the game.

For Pathfinders though, all their shots are precision which is just beyond huge for taking out enemy characters and weapons.

With stealth and shrouded they get a 4+ cover in the open and will be almost guaranteed to have a 2+ in any cover. I'm seeing them as the perfect backfielders and well worth the cost over rangers.

Night Spinners are better as well, they lost the Dangerous Terrain rule (which is fine since Dangerous Terrain is completely useless in this edition) but gained S8 against vehicles (hitting side armour remember). They also will end up S8 against Necron Wraiths and IG blobs (including the attached Marine character) which are two very popular builds atm that they can cause issue ID on.

@sudojoe. For a slower Eldar army i.e on that uses Wraithguard as its core the Platforms are actually a reasonable buy. Shadow Weavers are still pretty average and D Cannons are a tad expensive (but offer a nice area denial weapon) but the Vibrocannons are fairly reasonable for 90pts. You average S8 AP3 hits per turn, jumping to S9 AP2 if everything hits. If you compare that to Marines units with Missile Launchers they are actually the exact same cost as Long Fangs to get the same number of S8 AP3 hits on average, on a more durable unit. They obviously can't get the same volume of shots, but getting S9 AP2 makes up for that somewhat.

Incidentally (and related to the early topic of discussion) I'm really digging that a Fire Dragon Exarch + Fast Shot is 2 points less than buying another Dragon. If you're really tight on points, you can basically get another dragon (while upgrading "two" of them) to BS5... but at the cost of having one less wound to play with in the unit.

Vaul's Wrath = Multiple Shadow Weavers = Thunderfire Cannons on Crack.

A 3-gun battery of Shadow Weavers gives you 3 S6+ large blast barrage weapons, all artillery. So 6 T7 3+ with 6 crew to go with it. That can be joined by a Warlock for Shrouding.

Three sets of these, and you're looking at IG platform spam, only without needing Forgeworld to do it.

Veskrashen wrote:
Vaul's Wrath = Multiple Shadow Weavers = Thunderfire Cannons on Crack.

A 3-gun battery of Shadow Weavers gives you 3 S6+ large blast barrage weapons, all artillery. So 6 T7 3+ with 6 crew to go with it. That can be joined by a Warlock for Shrouding.

Three sets of these, and you're looking at IG platform spam, only without needing Forgeworld to do it.

Check the FAQ, they changed Shadow Weavers back to being small blast.

Check the FAQ, they changed Shadow Weavers back to being small blast.

hence I'm just not getting very excited by them over the fire prism

Don't have the codex myself and won't for awhile but from what I've seen I have a couple questions.

With the new equipment options and cheaper rangers is there a more usefull way to run a ranger autarch then there was last edition? I know it'll never be the best choice but it's for a friend using a fluff based autarch.

2 What is this relic sniper rifle you speak of?

I know no one has said it yet on this thread at least, but the wraithknight! Now let me clarify, I play dark eldar, and I plan on making an allies list at the moment (I'm slowly going to bring myself back to eldar). So what my detachment of craftworlders is going to look like is, Illic, and a squad of 5 pathfinders (I love the fact that they all have precision strike). I'll use them to pick off hq and other important characters hidden in squads. Also I am going to bring a 330 point wraithknight!!! I know that is a lot of points. But he is huge, and I'll have him kitted out to take out squads. The suncannon and scattershield, a scatter laser and a star cannon. Use the scatterlaser to get laser lock on the squad and then twinlink my 3 blast templates into whichever unlucky unit happens to meet my ire that turn.
For my dark eldar army, I'll have the duke in a raider with 6 incubi, and 10 wyches in a raider, and then 2 5 man squads of wyches in venoms, and then a void raven, and a razorwing jetfighter. Not sure if this is the most viable list (I know for the points (1850) I can make a pretty fast and nasty de army by itself). But I really like everything Illic and his boys bring, and the wraithknight is just badass. I can't wait to get one and start painting it. Airbrush anyone?

CrimsonKing wrote:
I know no one has said it yet on this thread at least, but the wraithknight! Now let me clarify, I play dark eldar, and I plan on making an allies list at the moment (I'm slowly going to bring myself back to eldar). So what my detachment of craftworlders is going to look like is, Illic, and a squad of 5 pathfinders (I love the fact that they all have precision strike). I'll use them to pick off hq and other important characters hidden in squads. Also I am going to bring a 330 point wraithknight!!! I know that is a lot of points. But he is huge, and I'll have him kitted out to take out squads. The suncannon and scattershield, a scatter laser and a star cannon. Use the scatterlaser to get laser lock on the squad and then twinlink my 3 blast templates into whichever unlucky unit happens to meet my ire that turn.
For my dark eldar army, I'll have the duke in a raider with 6 incubi, and 10 wyches in a raider, and then 2 5 man squads of wyches in venoms, and then a void raven, and a razorwing jetfighter. Not sure if this is the most viable list (I know for the points (1850) I can make a pretty fast and nasty de army by itself). But I really like everything Illic and his boys bring, and the wraithknight is just badass. I can't wait to get one and start painting it. Airbrush anyone?

I have an awesome image of a DE corrupted Wraithknight in my head now!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately saw the Laughing Jetarch combo only I also give him a Banshee Mask. Sadly to make full use of him I would have to be able to field more models than I own :/

I am also saddened by the nerf, yes NERF for the Harlequins. The Veil of Tears has been remade in 4th Editions image only now, it requires a psychic test and you can only use it once per turn... really? With no assault vehicles, Harlequins will be hard pressed to survive long enough to assault anything without being shot to hell first.

I love the changes to the Fire Prism and Night Spinner. With the Dispersed profile becoming AP3 and with the addition of the S9 Lance, I am more than willing to pay 10 more points for all that and a slightly weaker Focused profile.

The Night Spinner on the other hand is actually useable. The Doom Weaver is S7 now, in both modes. Mono-filament has been updated to be another 'I can't believe its not Rending' ability which is fine with me. It's Dispersed is a Large Blast now and has a new Focused torrent that absolutely devours infantry, especially Necrons. tasty tasty Necrons. Make a wall of Dire Avengers to block assaults and watch the world burn, BURN I say!

S.K.Ren wrote:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately saw the Laughing Jetarch combo only I also give him a Banshee Mask. Sadly to make full use of him I would have to be able to field more models than I own :/

I am also saddened by the nerf, yes NERF for the Harlequins. The Veil of Tears has been remade in 4th Editions image only now, it requires a psychic test and you can only use it once per turn... really? With no assault vehicles, Harlequins will be hard pressed to survive long enough to assault anything without being shot to hell first.

I love the changes to the Fire Prism and Night Spinner. With the Dispersed profile becoming AP3 and with the addition of the S9 Lance, I am more than willing to pay 10 more points for all that and a slightly weaker Focused profile.

The Night Spinner on the other hand is actually useable. The Doom Weaver is S7 now, in both modes. Mono-filament has been updated to be another 'I can't believe its not Rending' ability which is fine with me. It's Dispersed is a Large Blast now and has a new Focused torrent that absolutely devours infantry, especially Necrons. tasty tasty Necrons. Make a wall of Dire Avengers to block assaults and watch the world burn, BURN I say!

Harlies are probably better, not worse. Veil is a blessing you have to cast once and then everything that attempts to shoot has to roll, not just a single unit. Veil was a powerful ability in 5th and their average threat range is still the same (6+D6"+6 vs 6+ 2D6 with a re-roll). Considering that you can still walk them through terrain freely they are harder to deal with now, you have to roll to see them in the first place and then they probably get 4+ cover on top of that. Throw in a Spiritseer and they get the best of both worlds, 2+ cover and roll to see is going to really frustrate people.

Agree that the Prism and Spinner look like the goto choices for heavy (although everything apart from Falcons look pretty good actually).The Night Spinner is S8 against vehicles hitting side armour, which makes it great for getting rid of annoying Manticores hiding at the back of the board, and will break up Guard parking lots quite nicely. I didn't even click to uses for the torrent profile until you mentioned it, the S8 pie plate against Wraiths is nice but they usually are able to spread out quite well to avoid them (which is fine of Eldar anyway since they can isolate units more easily), but the Torrent template will catch people out as the get up close.

Huh, I guess I misunderstood the power then. Then Harlequins are fine, provided the Shadow Seer doesn't roll perils. Also I believe I got ahead of myself claiming the Doom Weaver would eat Necrons. It will only be marginally better due to the S8 compared to anything else as the AP 1 on a 6 applies to everyone.

What is our best anti air options at the moment?

Slayer222 wrote:
What is our best anti air options at the moment?

The Crimson Hunter. As long as you come in after their Flyers, You should be able to wreck them with ease, thanks to Skyhunter, which allows you to reroll the pen roll, if it failed to pen/glance. All with 4 Strength 8 shots.

I think it has vector dancer too, so I think??? (not sure) that lets you move all crazy like and not bound by the 90 turning radius.

CrimsonKing wrote:
I think it has vector dancer too, so I think??? (not sure) that lets you move all crazy like and not bound by the 90 turning radius.

It does have Vector Dancer as well. The only problem is it is paper-thin. It really needs to come on after your enemy flyers, and things with interceptor and Skyfire will crush it.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm considering running both.

A unit of 6 Fire Dragons in a Scatter Falcon - quite an effective double whammy.

A ten man troops choice WG squad with Cannons to take the mid board objective - no one will want to go near this. Could be better to split them up and take them in fives with a spiritseer in a Scatter Serpent.

Two squads of five Scythe Guard in Scatter Serpents to go eradicate infantry.

Add Jetbikes and whatever else to taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Heavy Support... the one I don't like is the Knight. It just doesn't put enough hurt out for it's points cost.

Puscifer wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Yeah, Fire Dragons and WG are close enough that it just could come down to personal preference and the needs of the rest of the army. Which is great, really.

I'm considering running both.

A unit of 6 Fire Dragons in a Scatter Falcon - quite an effective double whammy.

A ten man troops choice WG squad with Cannons to take the mid board objective - no one will want to go near this. Could be better to split them up and take them in fives with a spiritseer in a Scatter Serpent.

Two squads of five Scythe Guard in Scatter Serpents to go eradicate infantry.

Add Jetbikes and whatever else to taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Heavy Support... the one I don't like is the Knight. It just doesn't put enough hurt out for it's points cost.

Well, I'd consider mounting both Wraithguard and Fire Dragons into Serpents with scatter laser, underslung shuricannon, and holofield.
Here you need to plan ahead since a transport can only move 6'' if the unit wants to disembark.

how did muagen ra fair changes wise

Totally agree wuestenfux.

Pretty much stated the same.

In terms of the FD and WG debate, I'd be inclined to run a larger FD unit (without Exarch) in a Serpent.
The reason is that with an improver armor save, such a unit may no longer be a one-hit wonder.
Otherwise, a 5 men WG unit with wraithcannons could also get the job done.
Moreover, I think there is no need fielding Wraithblades since an Eldar army should have enough fire power to deal with any kind of enemy units, like bladestorm, scatter lasers making weapons twin linked.

So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

I may go all in on swooping hawk suicide squads. No scatter on DS and packing haywire grenades. You can also drop a large blast with ignores cover on a blob that is out of LOS and shoot another target. Not bad at 96 pts for 6.

 Iranna wrote:
So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

That's overkill. Eldar has so much units with decent fire power that such a unit will not be necessary. Take a Spiritseer and some Wraithguard units in Serpents. They should work well.

 Iranna wrote:
So far, I've been running a squad of 10 Wraithguard supported by a Spiritseer, Eldrad and Baron Sathonyx from Dark Eldar.

The squad has a 66% of getting Fortune and if it does it is really hard to take down thanks to a combination of:

T6, Stealth, Shrouded, Fearless, Baron's 2++, Hit and Run and Defensive Grenades.

Even without Fortune, the unit is still pretty beastly.

Iranna.

Not to mention that the spiritseer could, with its second warp charge, bump the squad up to a 2+ armor save.

Ok in someone completely unfamiliar with Eldar, could someone explain to me the attraction to Seer Councils?

I think farseers, purely as a support casters, got less expensive now that they do not need to buy spells, stones, or even the wards for that matter. However, they are in some ways less valuable on the whole too due to the heavy competition that now exists in the HQ category.

I feel like the double force org option may get its highest use yet from eldar players maximizing their spell-base. Spiritseers and farseers together provide amazing spell versatility! Two of each would be a blessing.

Not to mention the value of Illic..

I think the standard WL loadout may still be viable but it almost seems better to use double BL now. It would make them even more effective at hunting armor and at a lower cost than before. Some anti-horde would be sacrificed of course, but I think that the loss of a single small blast is pretty minor. I can't recall ever using that function before - not with the double flamers available.