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BlaxicanX wrote:

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

Which was my point. The unit gains infiltrate rule, but it is too late to use it.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

All Infiltrate on an IC does is confer the ability to Outflank from reserve, or to be able to Infiltrate with a squad of Infiltrators.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

IC can confer infiltrate to the unit only after the unit is already deployed

That's impossible. You can't infiltrate after deployment.

All Infiltrate on an IC does is confer the ability to Outflank from reserve, or to be able to Infiltrate with a squad of Infiltrators.

This.

Tho the rule says "a unit with one or more models containing..." The IC is not a part of the unit until he is deployed within coherency. If the IC has infiltrate, he is deployed last and the unit without infiltrate cannot delay their own deployment to be placed at the infiltration stage.

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Honestly I'd rather put the Farseer in a unit and have him be throwing out repeated guide + presciences than have him on a MantleBike. Not enough attacks to do the damage, and no way to reliably get doom (2 rolls on the table max if you still want prescience). I've begun taking a 5x Harlie squad with just a shadowseer so that the Farseer can sit in the back without even being able to be targeted.

Edited for synonyms.

Yeah but a farseer with MotLG has the rerollable 2+ cover save, the amount of effort trying to shift that is pretty huge, short of sending a flying MC just to deal with it, and it makes for a more mobile army.

Tested a Wraith Army in 750 points vs Orks.

Learnt a lot from the game, even though it was a loss.

Lost 5-3 on vp in Big Guns Never Tire. Went down to the Warboss and a Wraithlord slugging it out. If it went another turn, I would have won as his Warboss only had one wound left and his biker nobz were all dead.

Things to note...

Wraithguard just don't die even to mass Firepower. One unit took a 28 strong Shoota Boyz unit with two Big Shootas worth of shooting and it didn't lose a single model. Next turn, roughly same amount of shooting, only lost one.

Wraithlord don't like being tarpitted. One spent all game chipping away at the big Shoota unit. They just wouldn't fail a morale check. Two lots of Snake Eyes in two turns kept them around. Wraithlord also make great fire platforms. I should have taken dual EML. Multi Purpose and work really well. You should take Wraithlord with Anti Infantry ranged weapons as WG need the AI support and they can butcher vehicles in cc.

As for WG configs... Dscythes. My WG made it up into point blank range with Battle Focus and Wraithcannons. They can manage to get up there with Dscythes. I think Dscythe WG in Scatter Serpents supported by Anti Tank WL will work really well together.

As for Conceal, I didn't miss it. I never needed to take a cover save, but if I do, I'll get them from walking behind my WL's.

I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Puscifer wrote:

As for WG configs... Dscythes. My WG made it up into point blank range with Battle Focus and Wraithcannons. They can manage to get up there with Dscythes. I think Dscythe WG in Scatter Serpents supported by Anti Tank WL will work really well together.

No Battlefocus for Wraithunits. I have thought about running a D-Scythe unit in a serpent. I think I'll play a few more games before I purchase them though.

He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

 Ravenous D wrote:

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Honestly I'd rather put the Farseer in a unit and have him be throwing out repeated guide + presciences than have him on a MantleBike. Not enough attacks to do the damage, and no way to reliably get doom (2 rolls on the table max if you still want prescience). I've begun taking a 5x Harlie squad with just a shadowseer so that the Farseer can sit in the back without even being able to be targeted.

Edited for synonyms.

Yeah but a farseer with MotLG has the rerollable 2+ cover save, the amount of effort trying to shift that is pretty huge, short of sending a flying MC just to deal with it, and it makes for a more mobile army.

Noise marines ignore cover, and are Str 8 if I recall. And they are rather popular, at least where I am. That means one failed save and my super expensive Farseer suddenly gets instagibbled. Or a squad of HYMP Broads with a multispec. Too many things that just outright ignore cover, and no EW means I cringe at every 2xT wound on my lonesome seer. It's not situational enough to warrant not worrying about something like that.

---
To add to the growing list of anecdotal help, I just finished a 500 point game against Space Marines. He had Calgar, and 2x 5 man squads in Rhinos. I had Avatar, 2x 3 man WRJ, a Fire Prism, and a warlock. Warlock failed to cast his power once the entire game (9s, 10s, and 11s 5 times in a row), and Avatar died in a glorious 1v1 with Calgar. That 5++ is pretty bad to work with if he isn't fortuned. Also, Disarming Strike was only useful for reducing C's number of attacks by 1 since he has two PFs; I learned that DS is way better against the hidden PF sarge. Fire Prism killed a rhino, and then the squad inside next turn, but by turn 3 I only had a lone jetbike and the FP left. Turn 4 saw the WRJ die, and Calgar corner and assault the FP for a tabling.

Also remember the farseer would have 3+ armour from the bike and his 4++. I think its worth considering considering 1/36 wounds actually do damage. Not to mention his speed can keep him away from most things while still supporting forward elements.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Also remember the farseer would have 3+ armour from the bike and his 4++. I think its worth considering considering 1/36 wounds actually do damage. Not to mention his speed can keep him away from most things while still supporting forward elements.

I didn't mention the 3+ because AP3 is sort of part and parcel with a lot of weapons that ID T4 but yeah its up to how you play it.

Markerlights can also remove cover. The character on a jetbike still has a 4+ invo if a farseer and a 3+ armor, but will go down quick to tau s5/s6/s7/s8 shooting.

Vector strikes also squash mantle of the laughing god. Ap3 s7 no cover. Nids, deamons, and hell turkeys can all wound the character with ease.

I'm grinding through some options for troop choices at the moment. I've loved the jetbike squads since I started, and so am inclined to keep using them. Thus, I began wondering: is it better to have as many small units as possible or max out a few squads. For example:
6x 3-Man Windriders is 306 points
vs.
3x 9-Man Windriders, 3x SC is 549 points

The latter option puts out, if my math is right, 10.1 wounds with 2.7 of them at AP2. A lot more durable too. But it's a lot of points...

Thoughts on troop choice?

 xlEternitylx wrote:
I'm grinding through some options for troop choices at the moment. I've loved the jetbike squads since I started, and so am inclined to keep using them. Thus, I began wondering: is it better to have as many small units as possible or max out a few squads. For example:
6x 3-Man Windriders is 306 points
vs.
3x 9-Man Windriders, 3x SC is 549 points

The latter option puts out, if my math is right, 10.1 wounds with 2.7 of them at AP2. A lot more durable too. But it's a lot of points...

Thoughts on troop choice?

Depends, if you just want/need the Bikes to score then 6 x 3 is fine, its cheap, surprisingly durable and incredibly mobile. Just reserve them and you should have some scoring units left at the end of the game. Going first in this case is obviously harder, but still doable. If you actually want the Jetbikes to achieve something then 6 man units are the smallest I would go. A 6 man unit with 2 Cannons is surprisingly cheap and effective (JSJ at 24" until you have to commit to 12"), and 9 man units make good bunkers for a Farseer (usually you run Warlocks in the big squads as well to get more out of their buffs).

Also 549pts is not really that many points in troops, most lists I see tend to average around the 600 mark for 1750-1850pts.

 Ravenous D wrote:
He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

I should have mentioned that. Yes... I am using Codex Iyanden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Yeah, definitely. You have to footslog with this army in small games. No other option or you'll have even a smaller amount of units than you should. What have you been running in 500 points?

I've not seen a Riptide in my Meta, but if any army can take it out in one turn of shooting, it's Eldar.

My first victory with the Eldar against a so-so Tau list. Thoughts on the units I took:

Farseer - buffed the surrounding units all game (I took two, one had Guide, Prescience and Doom. The other had Prescience, Precognition and Forewarning)

Scorpions - hard to judge against an army so useless in combat really.

Jetbikes - Amazing. The new Bladestorm rule meant they ripped apart two Crisis suit squads (inc Commander) and barely took any casualties all game. Can't see myself picking a list without at least two squads.

Warp Spiders - Very impressive, so manoeuvrable. S7 against I3 or below is just devastating.

Swooping Hawks - Didn't do much for me, both their blasts scattered and did nothing.

Fire Prisms - Took two, I pretty much had the same experience as I did in 5th. They're devastating against infantry but just not great against vehicles. One of them spent 4 turns shooting at a Hammerhead but 4+ jink on both sides meant that the only damage was 1 hull point from him.

War Walkers - Amazing, outflanked and killed a fire warrior squad, a Hammerhead and partly killed the second Hammerhead. The 5+ save is incredibly useful and SL/SC is a great combo. Even with snap shots one turn they still put out an impressive amount of damage.

Puscifer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
He mentions he didn't miss conceal which means he is using the Iyanden book already

I should have mentioned that. Yes... I am using Codex Iyanden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I did a 500pt game against guard and just waltz'd across the table.

The true test will be at 1500pts or higher as riptides seem to be stupid popular, and 2 marker light hits counter conceal.

Yeah, definitely. You have to footslog with this army in small games. No other option or you'll have even a smaller amount of units than you should. What have you been running in 500 points?

I've not seen a Riptide in my Meta, but if any army can take it out in one turn of shooting, it's Eldar.

Just started an escalation league at the store, my 500pt army is 2 units of 5 d-scythes and a spirit seer, thus far Im seeing the problems of essentially not being effective for 3 turns before you bring the pain.

I run an all wraith army at 750-1000, and if i cant get the Iyanden supplement i will be quite annoyed... my $0.02 is that wraith are chunky as all hell, as in, they will never die, last game i had a farseer with fortune, and a couple of other spells, and a spiritseer who rolled protect. that rerollable 2+ was amazing and all i can say is, they beat face like nothing else, 2 units of wraithguard, one 10 man wraithcannon and one 5man d-scythe units to sit on the home objective, two wraithlords, on with glaive and SC, on with SL and brightlance, both have flamers, they wreack face againt charging units and defending units and were fociussed on much more so than my guard, which ended up taking the two objectives i had in the end. i tabled my opponent on turn 5 but it was awesome fun.

We have any unscrupulous folks post anything from the supplement in unseedy web areas?

wraith seems more viable at 750-1000 due to the smaller board size, but how about on a larger board and pointage? I really want a competitive wraith army but still a lil hardpressed to do so. Don't need to be uber competitive, but one that can put up a good fight.

was vaguely thinking:

2 spirit seers

5 WG
5 WG
5 WG -DScythe in Wave Serpent
5 WG -DScythe in Wave Serpent
3 GJB
3 GJB

1 Wraithknight
1 Wraithknight

1720+

I just tried this:

Spiritseer 85.
Soulstone of Anathalan.
Spiritseer 85.
Spear of Tuethlas.

5 Wraithguard 210.
DScythes.
5 Wraithguard 210.
DScythes.

Wraith Warlord 165.
Scatter Laser and Starcannon or 2 Scatter Lasers.
Ghostglaive.

You spend some turns getting there, but when you do, it hurts.

vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

So Illic outflanks with Dark reapers, arrives from reserves choosing a place to move onto the board into cover, can fire on the round they arrive (regular reapers only missing on rolls of 2, exarchs getting a 2+ rerollable) and should have a 3+ cover save to return fire.

A good friend of mine plays Necrons and we have a game in a week. Trying this out with a 7 strong squad of reapers. Expensive to be sure but I believe it will be worth it.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

So Illic outflanks with Dark reapers, arrives from reserves choosing a place to move onto the board into cover, can fire on the round they arrive (regular reapers only missing on rolls of 2, exarchs getting a 2+ rerollable) and should have a 3+ cover save to return fire.

A good friend of mine plays Necrons and we have a game in a week. Trying this out with a 7 strong squad of reapers. Expensive to be sure but I believe it will be worth it.

Yeah, this is the thing that I think a bunch of people are missing about Illic: he gives the codex its first "Give any unit Outflank" HQ other than Karandras (who at 200-some points you don't want having to wait in reserve). I know how much fun it is to outflank some Melta Bikes in my Slaanesh list... I would LOVE to do that with some Reapers in a Wave Serpent flanked by War Walkers. That is a LOT of firepower that just showed up from an unexpected direction.

Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I don't feel Illic in any list, is really "Optimal" It may work, but I think he is a far cry from optimal.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I've tried it in two games now. It worked well. Always lot's of tempting targets upon arrival. Side and rear armours for the Reapers while the snipers went a'snipin. Illic being able to move and shoot while picking different targets was nice. This came into play as my opponent reacted to my tactics and brought units to try and deal with them. Being able to move around to maintain optimal cover and play keep away while still being able to shoot was cool. In my last game I outflanked 6 reapers with Illic and then brought in 6 pathfinders and 6 rangers. Very expensive but I killed all but one of my friends sky firing units with this combo while my autarch delayed the arrival of my crimson hunter.

The rangers gave cover to the pathfinders and the reapers with illic were behind them. The rangers were just there for bubble wrap but managed to pin an assault squad. huzzah!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Im still thinking reapers with illric would be an optimal choice. Lot to like there.

I don't feel Illic in any list, is really "Optimal" It may work, but I think he is a far cry from optimal.

Pretty sure he was saying that deploying him with reapers and outflanking is an optimal use for that character, not for a list in general. I agree with you that there are HQs that do more for your army but outflanking shrouded reapers is sweet and would be a pain for any army to deal with given the range of their weapons. You show up, picking a place far away from any immediate enemy response, hit a bunch of side/rear armour while Illic tries to take out important models.

haha, well it's fun at any rate.

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

Characters can't join vehicle squadrons.

Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

 Sasori wrote:
Hah, I just realized I've been playing the serpent shield wrong. I thought it was once, period. Not once per turn, haha. I already thought serpents were good, now they are even better in my eyes.

They are the best thing in the new codex. They pretty much wreck any target on the board. Well, most.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

PsycicSpaceElf wrote:
vs Necrons the synergy between Illic and Dark Reapers or War Walkers is pretty sweet.

Illic gives to DR/WW- preferred enemy: Necrons, shrouded. When paired with reapers they give him slow and purposeful.

Characters can't join vehicle squadrons.

Thanks.