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The basic question is: do you generate your psychic powers for your Warlocks before or after splitting up the council to place them among various Guardian units?

The argument for before splitting the council:
The BRB section on Psychic powers states they are rolled "before either player deploys their army". In the section on 'Fighting a Battle' (pages 118-125), the section on rolling up warlord traits is a subsection of the deployment section. So if you you're going by the detailed rules in the relevant sections of the BRB, you'd determine your Psychic powers, then roll your warlord trait, then split up your warlocks and then do the rest of your deployment.

The argument for after splitting the council:
I think the competing argument is that in the game summary section in the back of the book (starting on page 148 for the small rulebook) shows Psychic power determination happening after the roll for Warlord Traits. And since the text in the Warlock entry says you split up the Council 'immediately' after determining warlord traits, you do that first and then determine Psychic powers.

It looks like the BRB is contradicting itself, where the detailed rule sections have one order, and the game summary has another. I'm more inclined to follow the detailed rules (note: I do not play Eldar and don't have a vested interest in it being played one way or another).

There is no contradiction. The reference section is more specific on the order of things.

While there is no proof that you roll for psychic powers before warlord traits or splitting, there is proof of otherwise(reference section) . it just says before deployment.

And as you have stated the "immediately" word in the warlock rule tell us we do splitting before rolling. There is no contradiction here as well since we still roll for psychic powers after warlord traits.

İn short, rolling for power after splitting is how i read it.


edit: me no have writing skill

 pizzaguardian wrote:
There is no contradiction. The reference section is more specific on the order of things.

While there is no proof that you roll for psychic powers before warlord traits or splitting, there is proof of otherwise(reference section) . it just says before deployment.

And as you have stated the "immediately" word in the warlock rule tell us we do splitting before rolling. There is no contradiction here as well since we still roll for psychic powers after warlord traits.

İn short, rolling for power after splitting is how i read it.


edit: me no have writing skill

I disagree that there is no contradiction.

Rolling for warlord traits is clearly in the 'Deployment' section on page 121. As such 'before either player deploys their army' can only mean that powers are rolled before the deployment (rolling warlord traits and placing your units on the table) part of the game. That seems pretty contradictory to me.

In the game summary it is clear that warlord traits are before pyshic powers, page 148 in small BRB, on page 142 it says powers are generated before players deploy their armies.

In other words, Warlocks are assigned before rolling for their powers

I believe the summary on page 148 shows us that you roll for Warlord traits, then allocate out your Warlocks, then roll for psychic powers. It slots neatly in the middle thanks to the Warlocks being allocated "immediately" after Warlord traits.

To those that don't believe the same, a question - why specify immediately after Warlord traits? Why not just say "before deployment", or indeed specify immediately after choosing powers if you believe that's the intent?

 Super Ready wrote:
I believe the summary on page 148 shows us that you roll for Warlord traits, then allocate out your Warlocks, then roll for psychic powers. It slots neatly in the middle thanks to the Warlocks being allocated "immediately" after Warlord traits.

To those that don't believe the same, a question - why specify immediately after Warlord traits? Why not just say "before deployment", or indeed specify immediately after choosing powers if you believe that's the intent?

I have no problems with your interpretation as long as the sequence on page 148 was the only source of rules on the matter. My issue with this is that the rules on page 142 say 'before deployment' and the very specific rules on page 121 pretty clearly show that Warlord Traits are in the 'Deployment' section of setting up to play.

I didn't even know that the summary was there until a few days ago. When this first came up I looked at pages 118-125 first and saw no mention of when to roll Psychic powers. So then I looked in the Psychic Powers section and saw 'before either player deploys their army'.

I see a contradiction and I'm more inclined to follow the rules in the relevant sections instead of a summary in the back of the book.

 undertow wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I believe the summary on page 148 shows us that you roll for Warlord traits, then allocate out your Warlocks, then roll for psychic powers. It slots neatly in the middle thanks to the Warlocks being allocated "immediately" after Warlord traits.

To those that don't believe the same, a question - why specify immediately after Warlord traits? Why not just say "before deployment", or indeed specify immediately after choosing powers if you believe that's the intent?

I have no problems with your interpretation as long as the sequence on page 148 was the only source of rules on the matter. My issue with this is that the rules on page 142 say 'before deployment' and the very specific rules on page 121 pretty clearly show that Warlord Traits are in the 'Deployment' section of setting up to play.

I didn't even know that the summary was there until a few days ago. When this first came up I looked at pages 118-125 first and saw no mention of when to roll Psychic powers. So then I looked in the Psychic Powers section and saw 'before either player deploys their army'.

I see a contradiction and I'm more inclined to follow the rules in the relevant sections instead of a summary in the back of the book.

So you are going to ignor the summary of the rules in a rule book?, no point in really posting on here then is there?.

Deploy your army is after warlord traits, psyhic powers is before either player deploys their armies, the summary clarfies this by clearly stating
Warlord Traits
Psyhic powers
Deploy your armies

I think the issue is the original poster equates "either player deploys their army" to "deployment". Warlord traits are done during deployment but also before either player deploys their army, as this is a specific sub phase of deployment that starts with players rolling off to see who deploys their army first. There is no contradiction in the rules.

I think it is more of a case as OP is reading the rules as he wants them to be. To be fair assinging warlocks then rolling for powers is backwards compared to putting IC's with units. It would be a lot better putting the warlock with plus one armour save or shrouded into a biker squad but sadly this cannot be done you have to be lucky and trust in the dice!

MarkyMark wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I believe the summary on page 148 shows us that you roll for Warlord traits, then allocate out your Warlocks, then roll for psychic powers. It slots neatly in the middle thanks to the Warlocks being allocated "immediately" after Warlord traits.

To those that don't believe the same, a question - why specify immediately after Warlord traits? Why not just say "before deployment", or indeed specify immediately after choosing powers if you believe that's the intent?

I have no problems with your interpretation as long as the sequence on page 148 was the only source of rules on the matter. My issue with this is that the rules on page 142 say 'before deployment' and the very specific rules on page 121 pretty clearly show that Warlord Traits are in the 'Deployment' section of setting up to play.

I didn't even know that the summary was there until a few days ago. When this first came up I looked at pages 118-125 first and saw no mention of when to roll Psychic powers. So then I looked in the Psychic Powers section and saw 'before either player deploys their army'.

I see a contradiction and I'm more inclined to follow the rules in the relevant sections instead of a summary in the back of the book.

So you are going to ignor the summary of the rules in a rule book?, no point in really posting on here then is there?.

Deploy your army is after warlord traits, psyhic powers is before either player deploys their armies, the summary clarfies this by clearly stating
Warlord Traits
Psyhic powers
Deploy your armies

I'm not ignoring it, I see a contradiction. The detailed rules do not say you deploy after warlord traits, they say determining your warlord traits is the first part of deployment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:
I think it is more of a case as OP is reading the rules as he wants them to be. To be fair assinging warlocks then rolling for powers is backwards compared to putting IC's with units. It would be a lot better putting the warlock with plus one armour save or shrouded into a biker squad but sadly this cannot be done you have to be lucky and trust in the dice!

You didn't read all of my first post did you? I'll repeat part of it:

"note: I do not play Eldar and don't have a vested interest in it being played one way or another"

And the next section in the detailed rules is deploy your armies, which is exactly what the psyhic powers section refers to.

It make so little sense deciding after they're in their squads. It would be like having Wolf Guard randomise their weaponry after choosing what squad they're in :(

Deploying your army and deployment are as dissimilar as shooting and the shooting phase. Many things can happen in a shooting phase that are not shooting. Likewise several things happen during deployment aside from deploying your army. During deployment but before players deploy their armies is a valid place in the order of things to put a game mechanic so I also see no conflict.

 shamikebab wrote:
It make so little sense deciding after they're in their squads. It would be like having Wolf Guard randomise their weaponry after choosing what squad they're in :(

Much like all the psychic powers in all 6th edition? I don't like it as well but that's how i read it.

Split before rolling for powers.