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So in the last codex edition for the Necrons you either ran 15 destroyers or 9 wraiths - one of those was the backbone your list (ok, it was for me anyway). I used to run destroyers most of the time. When the new codex came out I said "Whoa what did they do to the gauss cannon!" It dropped from a 36" shot to 24" and I think it was three shots back then and S6. So I stopped playing them altogether.

In my latest list I'm starting to lean more towards an air force. At 1850 I'm running 7 scythes with minimal on the ground on turn one. The issue I noticed was that having two units of warriors trying to hold on for dear life for a turn usually meant that my opponent did't pop smoke on his vehicles (if he had them and was going first) because he knew the flyers would be arriving soon enough. So basically I accomplished nothing on turn one. Then one of the other Necron players in my club fielded two heavy destroyers in response to two tau players running riptides. I looked at that and thought - hey! that would solve some of my lists short comings. So now I'm fielding three heavy destroyers in my air force. I ran two of them in my 1500 list in a tournament last weekend to reasonably good effect by either softening up armor targets so the DS could more easily deal with them (two of my opponents were GK and ran a LR) or holding objectives in the scouring mission.

So, apparently, I have a new found love for my old destroyers. Has anyone else tried running them recently? Nothing says love like two AP3 S5 shots that borders on being TL thanks to PE.

What Gauss cannons gained was AP3, Hammer of wrath, and preferred enemy...which isn't worth losing a shot, jetbike status, 36' range, and S6. Although I suppose if they remained the same except with AP3 they'd be really, really mean towards Marines.

I primarily use destroyers in double FOC or apoc games where I can afford to not spam more wraiths, there I use them as elite hunters, sniffing around for high value models to ruin. Two destroyers and three heavy destroyers in a single unit can pop in, gut an MSU or seriously hurt a MC or vehicle, and then shrug off return fire with their 3+ saves, high toughness, and RP rolls.

I remember killing some baneblades with them in apoc, that was a pretty awesome moment in my opinion.

If I've arranged a game with an MEQ player and I have 80-120pts knocking around I'll slot them in, sure they aren't as outright nasty as wraiths but they work for me, certainly help with whittling units down. Heavy's are possibly too pricey for what you get (a T5 LC marine with PE and a jump pack for 60pts) but they are very good on Termis and other 2+ sv stuff, though if AT is the plan for them good ol' gauss normal will do. So normals yes, Heavys pssibly not imo

I loved my destroyers back in the previous edition and commonly ran Destroyer Armada variants. What probably ticked me off the most was that heavies were made upgraded destroyers. Next was that the Gauss Cannon took the 24" nerf. I am pretty okay with S5 and Assault 2 in exchange for AP3, but not the 24" nerf. That rubbed me the wrong way as well.

However, I still love my destroyers though I prefer heavies. Still wishing that heavies were heavy support though...

 Kain wrote:
What Gauss cannons gained was AP3, Hammer of wrath, and preferred enemy...which isn't worth losing a shot, jetbike status, 36' range, and S6. Although I suppose if they remained the same except with AP3 they'd be really, really mean towards Marines.

I primarily use destroyers in double FOC or apoc games where I can afford to not spam more wraiths, there I use them as elite hunters, sniffing around for high value models to ruin. Two destroyers and three heavy destroyers in a single unit can pop in, gut an MSU or seriously hurt a MC or vehicle, and then shrug off return fire with their 3+ saves, high toughness, and RP rolls.

I remember killing some baneblades with them in apoc, that was a pretty awesome moment in my opinion.

They also got cheaper.

I agree with the load out though. 2HDs and 3Ds is the way I run them, when I do run them. I recommend always having at least one Heavy if you are maxing the squad, as the extra range on the Heavy allows you to sit at 23.9" and wound anything in the target unit.

Keep them on the flanks, and skirt the edges of their range, and they generally work out pretty well. They also mesh quite nicely with Solar Pulses.

I only started playing 'Crons after the 5th ed. codex came out, so I never had an experience with old Destroyers, but one thing always struck me as odd about the disparity between their fluff and their rules: so these guys are customization junkies, right? Always taking parts of themselves off and replacing them with better parts (legs to hover units, arms to guns, eyes to tracking units, etc.). However, when it comes to weapon options, all they've got access to are Gauss Cannons and bigger Gauss Cannons? Why would they not want the option to equip Tesla Cannons? Or Particle Beamers? Or even Transdimensional Beamers? (then that weapon might actually be useful for once). Even more puzzling is the fact that they have no CCW options. You would think if anyone in the Necron codex wanted to get up close and personal with the killing it would be the Destroyer caste.
*sigh*
Oh well, maybe they'll fix them for the 6th edition codex...

 skoffs wrote:
I only started playing 'Crons after the 5th ed. codex came out, so I never had an experience with old Destroyers, but one thing always struck me as odd about the disparity between their fluff and their rules: so these guys are customization junkies, right? Always taking parts of themselves off and replacing them with better parts (legs to hover units, arms to guns, eyes to tracking units, etc.). However, when it comes to weapon options, all they've got access to are Gauss Cannons and bigger Gauss Cannons? Why would they not want the option to equip Tesla Cannons? Or Particle Beamers? Or even Transdimensional Beamers? (then that weapon might actually be useful for once). Even more puzzling is the fact that they have no CCW options. You would think if anyone in the Necron codex wanted to get up close and personal with the killing it would be the Destroyer caste.
*sigh*
Oh well, maybe they'll fix them for the 6th edition codex...

Yeah, the lack of CC options puzzle me as well. You'd think they would configure them to work as a retinue for the D. Lord, but nope.

Hell, the fluff even says that destroyers tend to dive-bomb stragglers to make sure there are no survivors.

 skoffs wrote:
I only started playing 'Crons after the 5th ed. codex came out, so I never had an experience with old Destroyers, but one thing always struck me as odd about the disparity between their fluff and their rules: so these guys are customization junkies, right? Always taking parts of themselves off and replacing them with better parts (legs to hover units, arms to guns, eyes to tracking units, etc.). However, when it comes to weapon options, all they've got access to are Gauss Cannons and bigger Gauss Cannons? Why would they not want the option to equip Tesla Cannons? Or Particle Beamers? Or even Transdimensional Beamers? (then that weapon might actually be useful for once). Even more puzzling is the fact that they have no CCW options. You would think if anyone in the Necron codex wanted to get up close and personal with the killing it would be the Destroyer caste.
*sigh*
Oh well, maybe they'll fix them for the 6th edition codex...

This. YES! more options please GW get your heads switched on. I may go away, write some ideas and post them in here, what do we think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I've been thinking and here's what I came up with.
Standard loadout is the same+a ccw on the other arm
HGC still 20pts
TDB 15pts due to short range
Tesla Cannon free as thats how the vehicles do it eg AB
Particle beamer 10pts
Heat Ray (1 per squad) 15pts
And for the ccw arm;
Voidblade 10pts
Gauntlet of fire 5pts
H'Phase sword 5pts
Dispersion Shield 15pts

What do you guys think?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
I only started playing 'Crons after the 5th ed. codex came out, so I never had an experience with old Destroyers, but one thing always struck me as odd about the disparity between their fluff and their rules: so these guys are customization junkies, right? Always taking parts of themselves off and replacing them with better parts (legs to hover units, arms to guns, eyes to tracking units, etc.). However, when it comes to weapon options, all they've got access to are Gauss Cannons and bigger Gauss Cannons? Why would they not want the option to equip Tesla Cannons? Or Particle Beamers? Or even Transdimensional Beamers? (then that weapon might actually be useful for once). Even more puzzling is the fact that they have no CCW options. You would think if anyone in the Necron codex wanted to get up close and personal with the killing it would be the Destroyer caste.
*sigh*
Oh well, maybe they'll fix them for the 6th edition codex...

This. YES! more options please GW get your heads switched on. I may go away, write some ideas and post them in here, what do we think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I've been thinking and here's what I came up with.
Standard loadout is the same+a ccw on the other arm
HGC still 20pts
TDB 15pts due to short range
Tesla Cannon free as thats how the vehicles do it eg AB
Particle beamer 10pts
Heat Ray (1 per squad) 15pts
And for the ccw arm;
Voidblade 10pts
Gauntlet of fire 5pts
H'Phase sword 5pts
Dispersion Shield 15pts

What do you guys think?

I think I'd go something like:

May exchange gauss cannon for one of the following:

Tesla Cannon, Particle Beamer ... Free
Heavy Gauss Cannon, Heat Ray, Particle Shredder, or Tesla Destructor ... 20 points

May exchange close combat weapon for one of the following:
Gauntlet of Fire ... 5 pts
Hyperphase Sword ... 5 pts
Voidblade ... 10 pts

May exchange either gauss cannon or close combat weapon for:
Dispersion Shield ... 10 pts

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
I only started playing 'Crons after the 5th ed. codex came out, so I never had an experience with old Destroyers, but one thing always struck me as odd about the disparity between their fluff and their rules: so these guys are customization junkies, right? Always taking parts of themselves off and replacing them with better parts (legs to hover units, arms to guns, eyes to tracking units, etc.). However, when it comes to weapon options, all they've got access to are Gauss Cannons and bigger Gauss Cannons? Why would they not want the option to equip Tesla Cannons? Or Particle Beamers? Or even Transdimensional Beamers? (then that weapon might actually be useful for once). Even more puzzling is the fact that they have no CCW options. You would think if anyone in the Necron codex wanted to get up close and personal with the killing it would be the Destroyer caste.
*sigh*
Oh well, maybe they'll fix them for the 6th edition codex...

This. YES! more options please GW get your heads switched on. I may go away, write some ideas and post them in here, what do we think?

Ok I've been thinking and here's what I came up with.
Standard loadout is the same+a ccw on the other arm
HGC still 20pts
TDB 15pts due to short range
Tesla Cannon free as thats how the vehicles do it eg AB
Particle beamer 10pts
Heat Ray (1 per squad) 15pts
And for the ccw arm;
Voidblade 10pts
Gauntlet of fire 5pts
H'Phase sword 5pts
Dispersion Shield 15pts

What do you guys think?

Err, that seems a bit too much there for the CCW options (they'd be borderline Destroyer Lords... while on one hand that would be awesome, it would risk being too broken).
Perhaps something like,

NECRON DESTROYERS ....................................................................................... 35 points
Wargear:
• Gauss Cannon
Options:
• The entire squad may take Grav Stabilizers (grants Relentless) .................... 5 points per model
• Any model may exchange their Gauss Cannon for one of the following:
- Tesla Cannon ................................................................................................. free
- Hyperphase Sword (may also take one additional Hyperphase Sword) ....... 5 points per Sword per model
- Heavy Gauss Cannon (maximum 3 per unit) ................................................ 20 points per model
- Transdimensional Beamer ............................................................................ 15 points per model
- Particle Beamer ............................................................................................. 10 points per model
- Heat Blaster* (maximum 1 per unit) ............................................................. 15 points per model
*(lower strength version of the Heat Ray, so 12" S7 AP2 Heavy 1 Melta/Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1

(I don't think extremely heavy weapons like the Particle Shredder, Tesla Destructor, and actual Heat Ray should be on infantry models. The Heavy Gauss can I'll accept as it's a carry over from the old codex)

Really, this would make them closer to what the Necron codex is (ironically) lacking: REAL Terminator equivalents.
'Crons do have things that do what Terminators do, but they're spread all over the codex (heavy shooting handled by Destroyers, but heavy assault being handled by Wraiths/Lychguard).
That wouldn't be too bad, if only those units had the CUSTOMIZATION options that SM Terminators enjoy.
Why can one Terminator in a squad carry both a Thunder Hammer with a Storm Shield and another Terminator is able to carry Lightning Claws, yet a Lychguard can not carry a Warscythe and a Shield, and the entire unit is restricted to carrying the exact same gear.
If they at least had the option to mix and match differently armed models in the same unit, maybe then people would consider running something other than Wraiths.

Unfortunately even if they were broken and OP weapon wise theyre vulnerable, T5 W1 Sv3+ that's it. I reckon even with this entry Wraiths would still get spammed unless it was a true gunline list

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Unfortunately even if they were broken and OP weapon wise theyre vulnerable, T5 W1 Sv3+ that's it. I reckon even with this entry Wraiths would still get spammed unless it was a true gunline list

T5, W1, 3+...and RP. The RP makes a pretty big difference. Effectively, they are generally more resilient then Terms, and most people don't claim Terms as "vulnerable." Of course, these are Terms with vastly superior mobility.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Unfortunately even if they were broken and OP weapon wise theyre vulnerable, T5 W1 Sv3+ that's it. I reckon even with this entry Wraiths would still get spammed unless it was a true gunline list

T5, W1, 3+...and RP. The RP makes a pretty big difference. Effectively, they are generally more resilient then Terms, and most people don't claim Terms as "vulnerable." Of course, these are Terms with vastly superior mobility.

True dat, forgot some cron player I am forgetting RP on Destroyers *sigh* the other thing is though, if you gave them a proper ccw and gun and relentless like skoffs said, they're over 50 ppm and so possibly too expensive? I dunno, but at that price wraiths suddenly look cheap enough to spam.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Unfortunately even if they were broken and OP weapon wise theyre vulnerable, T5 W1 Sv3+ that's it. I reckon even with this entry Wraiths would still get spammed unless it was a true gunline list

T5, W1, 3+...and RP. The RP makes a pretty big difference. Effectively, they are generally more resilient then Terms, and most people don't claim Terms as "vulnerable." Of course, these are Terms with vastly superior mobility.

True dat, forgot some cron player I am forgetting RP on Destroyers *sigh* the other thing is though, if you gave them a proper ccw and gun and relentless like skoffs said, they're over 50 ppm and so possibly too expensive? I dunno, but at that price wraiths suddenly look cheap enough to spam.

Ah, woops, I had meant to drop the base price by 5 points (meaning basic Destroyers would be 35 points).
If it was the same price for both Necron heavy duty shooting and chopping jump infantry choices, people might be a little more likely to include them, especially if the option to tailor them to fill specific niches in your army was present.
...
Just by way of wondering, while we're on the subject of "how things should have been", does anyone know if someone's written a fan-codex for the 'Crons?
(god knows they need one, to fix all the crap that's wrong with the current version. IA12 came pretty close, but not quite there yet.)

Yes I totally agree there should be one but I dunno if it's been done. So how about we do it in this thread or a new one? But... I have no idea how in heck to go about it. How about we assign sections to people, so one does the HQs one the troops, one does elite, one FA one HS and the last does DT? What do you guys think?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Yes I totally agree there should be one but I dunno if it's been done. So how about we do it in this thread or a new one? But... I have no idea how in heck to go about it. How about we assign sections to people, so one does the HQs one the troops, one does elite, one FA one HS and the last does DT? What do you guys think?

That sounds fun and I'm completely game

I would like a shot. It's been a while since I made some rules. I think the last time was that failed Dakka Dakka fan codex.

Does anyone have a section they want to do particularly? I'm game either way but if possible I'd prefer to do either Elites or Troops

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Does anyone have a section they want to do particularly? I'm game either way but if possible I'd prefer to do either Elites or Troops

I wouldn't mind doing either FA or HS

Well, damn. That leaves the HQ then. Not sure if crons need their HQ fixed :/

Is this just a rework of the current lineup, or do you add things as well?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, damn. That leaves the HQ then. Not sure if crons need their HQ fixed :/

Is this just a rework of the current lineup, or do you add things as well?

I'd say we could add things that we see appropriate as well as fixing stuff. And remember, we both said "or"

Oh herp derp. I can't read >.<

I think it may be easier to work on individual units first, and then work on slots. That should be a more thorough job of fixing it.

Ok so if we follow up on Cthululs idea, what units actually need doing? I'd say;
FO (obviously)
Destroyers (kindly done by skoffs)
Ctan (if they're worth keeping)
TP and LG
Overlords (just wargear options imo)
Spyders a little bit
Maybe some on the RC too
Any others?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Ok so if we follow up on Cthululs idea, what units actually need doing? I'd say;
FO (obviously)
Destroyers (kindly done by skoffs)
Ctan (if they're worth keeping)
TP and LG
Overlords (just wargear options imo)
Spyders a little bit
Maybe some on the RC too
Any others?

Doomsday Ark, Many would argue the Scythes are a bit on the cheap side, Tomb blades I think could do with a little tweaking

Monoliths, anni barges*, wraiths (points increase, tweaking the transbeamer so its useful), Lg and TP comes to mind.


*Just an option to take skyfire will do, for ~20pts. This skyfire should be optional though, as a 1000000 year old alien race should be smart enough to add an off button, just in case there are no flyers to shoot.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Ok so if we follow up on Cthululs idea, what units actually need doing? I'd say;
FO (obviously)
Destroyers (kindly done by skoffs)
Ctan (if they're worth keeping)
TP and LG
Overlords (just wargear options imo)
Spyders a little bit
Maybe some on the RC too
Any others?

All of this and more.
Everything from minor point repricing on some units to complete rules rewrites on others.
Practically the entire book is in need of a massive overhaul.

My friend plays Necrons and complains that his Destroyers are a "do nothing" point sink. Probably just cursed, as they seem to die in the first 2 turns every game after inflicting minimal casualties.

The last game he took them in was against me a week ago. 3 Combi-Plasma and JOTWW ended the entire unit when my Drop Pod came in. But I claim luck was on my side as nothing of mine scattered all game and I one shotted all 5 of his Nightscythes as they came in that game.

My only problem with Destroyers is they only have one Wound and a 3+ Save. Either a 2+ Save or a 3+ Save and 2 Wounds would make them more worthwhile to me. They aren't exactly assault units, which is fine. But for 40 points base? That's just cruel. My TWC is 50 points base and comes with 2 Wounds. And even then, TWC are surprisingly fragile unless you dump points on Storm Shields, and even then...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Monoliths, anni barges*, wraiths (points increase, tweaking the transbeamer so its useful), Lg and TP comes to mind.


*Just an option to take skyfire will do, for ~20pts. This skyfire should be optional though, as a 1000000 year old alien race should be smart enough to add an off button, just in case there are no flyers to shoot.

Good point, Also anni barges are noted to have been defense mechanisms for tomb worlds, why not an interceptor option?

Oh yes, that's a great idea! Might have to bump that option to about 25-30 points though. How powerful of an ability is interceptor?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yes, that's a great idea! Might have to bump that option to about 25-30 points though. How powerful of an ability is interceptor?

Against armies that like outflanking, infiltrating, deep striking, etc. Interceptor is a pain in the ass.