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Librarian, Bike, Lvl 2, PFG, Auspex, Melta Bombs 160
Sammael, 200
Techmarine, Bike, PFG 100

5-man RCS 200
5-man RCS, Banner of Fortitude 285
5-man RCS, Ravenwing Standard 215

3-man RAS, Melta 90
3-man RAS, Melta 90

5 RWBKs, Melta Bombs 215
5 RWBKs, Melta Bombs 215
Darkshroud 80

1850 points

Not a subtle list; If going first, scout-deploy everything and turbo boost into enemy lines. If going second, either deploy out of range of their big guns and then turbo boost into enemy lines, or man up and scout
in front of them anyway.This list isn't here to capture objectives or anything silly like that; this list is here to jam twenty five angry Black Knights down your opponent's throat and make them choke on Corvus Hammers.

Opponents: You have one turn of shooting. Better make it count. Everything in my army has a 2+ cover save and 5+ FNP, as well as a 4++.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm an old 4th edition RW player just getting back into 6th ed...

How are your RCS 5 man? I only have iPad edition of the codex and it doesn't allow a purchase of additional bikers (which is one of the main reasons why I wouldn't take this unit). Also how are you getting 3 HQs? The FOC only allows 2 max unless you are taking allies.

Again, I only have the iPad version, so it could be a misprint.

SubParNinja wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm an old 4th edition RW player just getting back into 6th ed...

How are your RCS 5 man? I only have iPad edition of the codex and it doesn't allow a purchase of additional bikers (which is one of the main reasons why I wouldn't take this unit). Also how are you getting 3 HQs? The FOC only allows 2 max unless you are taking allies.

Again, I only have the iPad version, so it could be a misprint.

Chrck the faq they added the option to toss in extra bikers in RCS

You can have 5 bikes but does a Techmarine allow a 3rd RWCS....I think not. I'm any case, black knight spam is deadly; just hide your troops in reserve for late game obj. grabbing.

seems like it'd work great till the heldrakes show up

I was just going to say this. Heldrakes will have a boner with thus list

I'll check the FAQ. I figured with the ipad version they would have updated it with the FAQ release. I'm still confused as to how there are 3 HQs.

The Shrike wrote:
You can have 5 bikes but does a Techmarine allow a 3rd RWCS....

Technically yes, which is dumb, for the same reason that technically you can take a Command Squad for Servitors but not for a Techmarine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can take multiple command squads for a single model, so Sammael can take both a foot-Command Squad and a Ravenwing Command Squad.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I was just going to say this. Heldrakes will have a boner with thus list

Helldrakes show up on the second turn. I will be in close combat on the second turn until the end of the game (automatic hit and run).

In any case, I can tank Helldrake fire with Sammael, 4++ bubbles, FNP, and the Techmarine 2+. It's just a matter of placement. Helldrakes aren't the be-all and end all. I can be 12" into the Chaos deployment zone in turn one.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

SubParNinja wrote:
I'll check the FAQ. I figured with the ipad version they would have updated it with the FAQ release. I'm still confused as to how there are 3 HQs.

Techmarine is a free HQ slot which doesn't count towards your total. If on bike, he unlocks a Ravenwing Command Squad. The FAQ has errata'd them to have up to 5 bikers in a command squad.

Oh I haven't really looked at TM because I never really liked them, although a TM on a bike sounds like one cool ass mofo. I personally use my Ravenwing as shooters and avoid CC like the plague since I think +1 Str and rending isn't as cool as TL plasma.

Won't it be pretty difficult to get 32 models within 3" of two models for PFG? Plus in CC enemies get the 4++ too. Banner of Fort is easy since it's units within 12" rather than models. With dark shroud and jink/turbo boost saves 4++ seems redundant unless accounting for ignoring cover shots.

If you use the same list to shoot TL plasma at 18" and TL bolters at 24" while moving back you'll get a 3+ cover and FNP while avoiding assault retaliation. But I haven't played with RWBK so maybe they're better off assaulting.

Overall this is an interesting list. Thanks for helping me understand more about the new DA RW.

I think its time to call in the SVU, cause this rape train 'aint gonna stop till they drop

SubParNinja wrote:
Oh I haven't really looked at TM because I never really liked them, although a TM on a bike sounds like one cool ass mofo. I personally use my Ravenwing as shooters and avoid CC like the plague since I think +1 Str and rending isn't as cool as TL plasma.

Won't it be pretty difficult to get 32 models within 3" of two models for PFG? Plus in CC enemies get the 4++ too. Banner of Fort is easy since it's units within 12" rather than models. With dark shroud and jink/turbo boost saves 4++ seems redundant unless accounting for ignoring cover shots.

If you use the same list to shoot TL plasma at 18" and TL bolters at 24" while moving back you'll get a 3+ cover and FNP while avoiding assault retaliation. But I haven't played with RWBK so maybe they're better off assaulting.

Overall this is an interesting list. Thanks for helping me understand more about the new DA RW.

There's tons off stuff that ignores cover now, most of which gets squished in CC, so getting the 4++ in is very important. You don't have to cover all 32 models (Although it is possible) just the Banner squads. Sammael can tank for another squad, and the Techmarine for yet another.

This isn't a SoD list, I have a different list for that. This is a balls-to-the-wall assaulty list.

Plasma Talons rapid fire at 9", so you're best off being right in their face. The question is why wouldn't you assault? Black Knights are one of the strongest assault units in the game. Instead of getting shot at full BS you get overwatched and possibly locked in combat. Then you automatically hit and run to rapid fire plasma and charge again. The last bit is what makes them insane, on top of the 2+ cover, 5+ FNP, and twin linked plasma on everyone, as well as the -1 T and -1 WS and I.

This list is awesome, and it's going to put a hurting on the enemy.

It's not going to win you any games though. Two 3-man scoring bike units isn't going to cut it in 6th. Too many weapons ignore cover or line of sight, too many games require claiming multiple objectives, and opponents are fast too.

I run three 6-man squads with attack bikes, and when I combat squad, that gives me 9 scoring units.

I suggest you drop the techmarine, a.combat squad and 1 black knight squad and throw as many scoring bikers in as you can. You've still got enough black knights to mess up the enemy, but you've got practical ways to capture objectives and provide back-up to your troops as well.

I like that this list is actually OK with Helldrakes. You already know I'm gonna say get some power mauls on the Sergeants and that I don't believe the list is legal.

You are VERY low on scoring so will need to table your opponent in most games. Which perhaps is an unnecessary risk. Likewise High AV causes you real problems with 2 meltaguns and 3 meltabombs as your only way of dealing with AV14 is an issue.

I just read relentless again and see what you mean for shooting plasma/assaulting/hit and run.

I guess the reason why I am used to seeing bikers shooting being better than assaulting is because bikes used to be able to move 12" then shoot as if stationary, meaning a 36" TL bolter shot. If you played your ranges right you would only see an assault if you wanted one. Being that TL plasma is 18" with a 12" move you get an effective 30", which is still pretty good. However Bikes only have Jink, Relentless, and Hammer of Wrath USRs. And according to the BRB Relentless only lets you count as stationary with Heavy/Ordnance/Salvo weapons (not rapid fire) and lets you assault after rapid fire. With not being stationary with rapid fire coupled with assaulting it is definitely better to assault with RWBK, especially factoring in HoW. Although now seeing Relentless I've changed my old bolter RW to include SoD as well.

I'm still learning this new edition, there are quite a few changes. Gotta teach this old dog new tricks...

Black Knights also get 4 S5 rending attacks on the charge each.With the ability to reduce enemy Ws, I and T. They are brutal in assault.

Not sure what you are talking about with relentless there has been no functional change to it. You still have a 36" threat range with bikers as you can still move 12" and take your shot with 24" range. As rapidfire makes no difference whether you move or not in 6th I don't really understand what you think happens now (or happened in 5th that makes the current situation different).

Again I was speaking of the changes between 4th to 6th, I never got to play 5th. In 4th Rapid Fire meant you either got to move and shoot twice at half range or didn't move and got to shoot once at full range. Now that you pointed it out I realized rapid fire no longer has any restrictions on moving and firing, which was a change from 4th to 5th and retained in 6th I guess. I guess that's also why it's not mentioned in relentless being that rapid fire weapons don't get affected by movement.

Sorry if I'm getting annoying with getting what should be relatively easy rules mixed up. I've only recently read through 6th edition within the last week. Whenever a rule that's changed from what I remember doesn't mention something I tend to fill in the gap with older rules (i.e. rapid fire and movement when the rules mention nothing of movement).

One last question: what is making the reduced WS, I, and T with the BK?

The Ravenwing Grenade Launcher has special munitions that can debuff the WS and I OR T, depending on which round you fire. But if you have 2 RWGL's in a squad, of course you could fire one each. Now you may be beginning to see why the OP wants to spam them

Ah soooooo... lots of good combos to shoot before assault.

Thanks guys.

The -1 T is pretty broken it means power mauls (and the plasma talons) ID T4 models. With both grenades each black knight that attacks marines has 4 attacks going first hitting on a 3+ wounding on 2+ and rending!!! 8 Black Knights should wipe out 10 Paladins on the charge!!

Broken is a very strong word. They are powerful yes, but 8 black knights are expensive and die to massed small arms fire like many elite units.

Remember, your grenades have to hit first. BS4 is BS4, but they still miss. And every grenade launcher you take to mitigate the risk of missing is one less plasma talon. It's a balance.

They are a very strong unit and probably the best in the DA codex. Broken though? No.

 The Shrike wrote:
Broken is a very strong word. They are powerful yes, but 8 black knights are expensive and die to massed small arms fire like many elite units.

Remember, your grenades have to hit first. BS4 is BS4, but they still miss. And every grenade launcher you take to mitigate the risk of missing is one less plasma talon. It's a balance.

They are a very strong unit and probably the best in the DA codex. Broken though? No.

Not when you have a 2+ cover and a T5 and 5+ FNP. Most small arms will struggle with that... even Tau.

Considering you just have to touch a single model with the template it's not that difficult to miss, it's happened of course, but there are about five GLs in the list so odds are you'll hit a couple.

The de-buffs are just icing though, they are plenty nasty without already.

You guys must not roll 10+ on scatter as much as I do lolz. I swear I can count on one hand how many times I've gotten a direct hit