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Hi,

I don't let people do things they forgot to do. Like, when you forgot to move an unit and shot with something - no goin' back, no "may I juuuust move this one little unit". Nope. I don't like dwelling on details too long either, so if we'd play and we couldn't agree on something, I'd just roll the dice and get over it. Go on, keep playing, that's my motto.

My problem is: bf told me it's uncool. No sportsmanship. That I look bitchy. I got nice pair of twins, so eventually he forgets about it, sure. But still.

From my point of view it's fair. I don't go back, you don't go back.

What do you guys think?

Boobies aside, it's very unsporting. Don't get me wrong, in a tournament setting it's a perfectly acceptable approach because you're there to win and you're playing strictly by the rules and against the clock, but during casual games with friends I've allowed people to go back and cast the psychic power they forgot, or roll in the reserves that slipped my mind, it's just fair play and good sportsmanship.
Some of my friends are still learning the ropes of 6th ed because they don't get much opportunity to play, or they're playing a new codex, they really should be allowed the opportunity to stumble through it while they're relative rookies. I guess there's less of an excuse for 6th ed veterans but I still say be a sportsman and not a Hitler, but that's just me, I'm a nice guy :-)

Your BF is right.

We all forget things. letting your opponent move something after they have shot with 1 unit is sporting.

Not letting your opponent remove a unit when he has completed his assault phase is fine though.

I only play like this if for whatever reason we're running short of time.

Otherwise, very bad sportsmanship, unless you ok it with the other guy first. If you don't, it'd be enough to make me look for a different opponent.

Not really a rule lawyering situation as this comes down to personal choice of whom you are playing against and yourself the moment you find yourself in it.

That being said, I do not see anything overly wrong with allowing slight adjustments. What you need to remember over all is this is a game and people want to have fun. The behavior of your opponents is part of the enjoyment and one demanding strict adherence to timing is not a fun opponent to play against. Not only that, it is not something humans are very good at for the most part so it makes a innocent oversight into a fun-breaking experience faster then nothing else.

I'll give someone I don't know some leeway, but between my friends and I, we prefer not to do tapbacks if for no other reason than to give us a better reason to remember and pay better attention next time.

Both are valid. I allow it but that's because I play pretty casual games with friends.

I think that as long as you are clear about it from the start, then it shouldn't be a problem.

To counter your boyfriend's point, it's also not particularly sportsmanlike to expect your opponent to bend the rules for you. If you want a "take back", then you should be prepared that your opponent has every right to say "no".

Personally, I'm pretty easy on it with my opponents, though I try to be as strict about it for myself as possible. Everyone gets tired and forgets things, everyone gets distracted by something (boobs), and everyone suffers from brain farts at times. I would rather win by tactics and luck than by being out-brainfarted by my opponent.

Yeah, the key is just to make sure that both players have the same expectation. Neither approach is inherently more sporting... Letting them go back is certainly more relaxed, though.

For myself, in a casual game I have no problem with allowing an opponent to go back and do something he forgot, so long as it doesn't mess up other things that have happened since.

But then, I'm generally ok with that in a tournament game against a friendly opponent, too...

I have no problem with it as long as you haven't gone on into a new phase. If you forgot to cast a blessing and you already started moving units, I'll allow it. If you forgot to cast a blessing and you already started shooting - it's too late.

Hime wrote:
My problem is: bf told me it's uncool. No sportsmanship. That I look bitchy.

Well, it does depend on the situation.

Some things are required by the rules, such as reserve rolls - if you remember your opponent has units in reserve (and he doesn't) I'd certainly expect you to remind him. Same goes for "always on" special rules you know his units have - they can't actually choose not to use them even if he forgets. Or weapon characteristics that aren't optional, such as Ordnance rolling two dice for armor penetration and picking the higher. It's no longer bad sportsmanship if you don't remind him, it's outright cheating.

Some things aren't required, and there it's perfectly fine not to say anything. If your opponent moves off an objective on turn five or doesn't move that one free unit into your deployment zone for Linebreaker it's his problem. It would be good sportsmanship to remind him, but in a tournament with cash prizes I wouldn't expect it.

Going back to move a unit you forgot or shoot that gun or pile in... well rules are quite simple you don't.

Now that's not saying i wont give some one some slack over this but really its something that you have to do. Its a key mechanic people have to learn.

My rule of thumb if I'm playing against a kid or new player he'll get advice and can do things he forgot. (There's a lot going on its only fair to cut them some slack while learning). If the player is more experienced then I expect them to play like that ... ok he for got to move his big unit I'll let him ... once or twice. Pro players ... tough you should know what your doing only time you get to go back and do something is when i want it (forgotten reserves for example).

IMO, assuming we aren't playing with prizes at stake:

If the mistake is forgetting something and it's caught before anything depending on it can happen I'll probably allow my opponent to go back and do it. For example, if they forget to move a unit, roll to-hit with their first shooting, and realize they forgot to move.

If the mistake is doing something that, in hindsight, you wish you had done differently then forget it. For example, if you miss all of your shots with your melta guns and then "forget" that you didn't move your lascannons out of cover for a good shot then no, I'm not going to let you do it. And if you "forget" that you wanted to do something differently right after a unit rolls badly then you're TFG.

(Example of the second case: my opponent forgot to cast a psychic power that was a pretty obvious auto-cast, I decided to let them go back and cast it since they caught it early in their movement phase. They rolled perils and suddenly were all in favor of playing RAW and not being allowed to go back and cast a power.)

Thanks for all comments!

Okay, so from now on I will just mention how I like to play before the game. That's fair enough I think.

About that "rookie needs some leeway" thing, I concur. However that is valid for like three games, then you gotta learn. I play for only like a year, so I'm still learning myself (and got new codex just when I thought I knew my old one, yay!). I best memorize things that "hurt", for example: forgot to "fortune" Eldrad, got eaten by terminators. Hurts, but now I a l w a y s remember to cast my powers.

I'll try to be more relaxed though. The fact that I don't allow myself to ask for things doesn't mean it should be so for all, isn't it? I just don't wanna people think I try to play "that dumb girl" act. My mistakes, my problem, period.

But, using boobs is part of my Eldar trickery tactic! Distraction and pathfinders won me some tough games!

P.s. You're all so nice O_o

Hime wrote:
Distraction and pathfinders won me some tough games!

Distracting your opponant IRL wins 40k games?

I'll bear that in mind.

For my next game, I'm now going to drag dress as daisy duke. Cut off's, cowboy boots and a crop top.

That should cause some distraction. Possibly some panic.

 Cheexsta wrote:
To counter your boyfriend's point, it's also not particularly sportsmanlike to expect your opponent to bend the rules for you. If you want a "take back", then you should be prepared that your opponent has every right to say "no".

I really agree with this. It cuts both ways, expecting to be allowed to cheat isn't very sporting either.

That said, I'm usually ok with a certain amount of out-of-sequence actions, as long as whatever needs to be done isn't tied too closely with things that already happened or was bleedingly obvious that the unit would have done whatever was forgotten. But only to a point - I will draw the line if you've taken several mulligans. Eventually you have to wear the disadvantage of forgetting things!

People forgetting to move flyers is one i wont let them undo.

Never let your enemy know they are making a mistake.

People forgetting to move flyers is one i wont let them undo.

Don't flyers have to move a certain distance? Is this not cheating? Unless of course they are in hover mode.

 cerbrus2 wrote:

People forgetting to move flyers is one i wont let them undo.

Never let your enemy know they are making a mistake.

With non hover fliers, they have to move 18" - does this mean you make them auto crash?

I'll let them make mistakes tactically - like assaulting the 'wrong' unit or shooting the 'wrong' unit, but I point out where they are making actual rules mistakes - whether they're advantageous to me or not.

To add another point to this, who would allow someone to change their mind about a unit they have moved.

I quite often will move a unit to a position and then change my mind, moving them back or to a new position. I would always ask before I do so, and would carefully measure out so they know I'm not cheating. But out of interest how many people would allow me to do it, even in a tournament scene?

I accept that if I have moved onto the next phase then it's too late and I won't even try - unlike your BF - but what if I'm still in that phase?

Then its still your turn and premeasuring is fine - as long as if you moved a unit, you go back to where you started from.

No one I've ever played has claimed this is chess and as soon as you take your finger off your unit you're done.

Although, Its a different thing altogether when somone measures something, moves, can't reach where they want, goes back and measures again and somehow they're in the perfect position now...

For me it largely depends on how important the difference is. If it's turn 1 shooting phase and you've forgotten to move up a unit, sure, go for it.
If it's turn 5 and you forgot to declare a charge on an objective before starting another combat - sucks to be you...!

 phantommaster wrote:
To add another point to this, who would allow someone to change their mind about a unit they have moved.

I quite often will move a unit to a position and then change my mind, moving them back or to a new position. I would always ask before I do so, and would carefully measure out so they know I'm not cheating. But out of interest how many people would allow me to do it, even in a tournament scene?

I accept that if I have moved onto the next phase then it's too late and I won't even try - unlike your BF - but what if I'm still in that phase?

I can't see how this could possibly be an issue except against the most horrid, WAAC powergamer scum. And even then, just tell them to feth off and move your unit again.

There is a line, but in general I think it is poor sportsmanship to say no. So is distracting people...

For example, if the move would have an effect on something else, then no. If, say, the unit might have ended up giving cover to another unit that has shot, no.

On the other end of the scale you have someone dose there move, shoots at one end of the table with one unit and says "Oops... I just realized I didn't move that unit I forgot was in that building at the other end of the table". No problem with that.

I know one person who dose refuse these, and I will not play against him. I have some short term memory and organizational problems and it really takes the fun out of the game when things like that are used against you.

In my opinion, asking someone to let you not follow the rules is far more unsportsmanlike, and then complaining that they did't let you, far bitchier. Having to remember to do things in the right order helps you learn not to forget to do things.

Hime wrote:
I'll try to be more relaxed though. The fact that I don't allow myself to ask for things doesn't mean it should be so for all, isn't it? I just don't wanna people think I try to play "that dumb girl" act. My mistakes, my problem, period.

I am guessing that most people would rather play a more relaxed opponent, than one that is more uptight. So good for you!

But, using boobs is part of my Eldar trickery tactic! Distraction and pathfinders won me some tough games!

Pics or it didn't happen!

Your BF is dead on. Furthermore I play in GT's and RTT's and I almost always allow my opponent to go back and do something they forgot especially if it is something that they would very obviously do. People get excited sometimes and forgetful other times. In addition, (there is no nice way to say this) if you need your opponent to forget things and then beat him over the head with it, I really question your ability as a gamer if you are required to hamstring your opponent like that to win.

I know some people (most of them two-digit veterans), who won't let people redo forgotten moves/shooting/powers/whatever no matter what. However, all of them will refuse any offer to redo something they have forgotten during their game(unless they were mandatory anyways). Being veterans doesn't exactly make them forget less things, usually quite the opposite. It's just the way they like to play, I think one should respect that.

Personally, I ask people whether they buffed/moved/shot/assaulted everything when they start moving/shooting/assaulting/rolling combats. That resolves the issue 90% of the time. In addition few people ask to redo forgotten things if you explicitly asked them a few minutes before.

Your BF is neither wrong nor right. It is his opinion.

Honestly if you are consistent with how you play, meaning "you practice what you preach."

Then I would consider that fair and sporting.

A pre-game discussion to set all the expectations should be all that is needed.

I let people correct mistakes at tournaments, but then I don't take this game as seriously as some people do.