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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Men are made fun of online for being someone's opponent. Women are made fun of online for being women. There's a huge difference that your privilege is blinding you to.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
I guess I'll just point out your privilege again, and you will continue to pretend you don't have it and lurkers who actually aren't horrible will understand and learn something.

So anyone who is male, and has a different perspective to you is wrong and should probably step away from the thread because of that horrible privilege that they suffer from?

No.

I mean thanks for trying, but no, your post was dumb and that's not what I said.

Privilege is like living in the matrix. If you don't get that you have it, it's almost impossible for someone to explain it to you without you thinking they're crazy. I'm pointing it out for other people to look in and see.

Well if your response is to start getting snarky then there isn't much point in responding to you Neo.

Not going to point me to where I denied said privilege?

Please take a breath--and a break from the thread if someone is upsetting you. Consider this a warning for all involved in the thread--thanks.

Ryan

I have to say sigvatr that i consider this forum to be right wing in scope, particularly OT. It just happens that a lot of left leaning people happen to use buzzwords and nonsensical arguments so you probably notice them more - or alternatively you don't like being disagreed with

I agree on the women being more competitive thing it's just about different things and half off the male perception radar. Men are more likely to be in your face and confrontational about it so i feel that women find this harder to deal with in the current gaming online enviroment. Hanging gak on opponents is considered a key part of sports (at least when i played) and gaming is very similar to sports (physical) so I think it goes with the territory.

On the other hand I don't see the benefit on hanging crap on your own team (but I'm sure teenagers find it fun)

I'm really not seeing this privilege stuff, my life has not been magical because I am white and male .I still have to find this male privilege "magic keycard to employment and promotion" that seems to be around - maybe i need to pay my dues to the patriarchy. I have to try as much as anyone else to suceeed, if it was the 70's then I could understand, in this day and age? I think people like being a victim/blaming others for own failure.

*note however this is in regard to my own country I do not know how things are in other countries and i must admit atm people seem to be weird over muslims atm, they'll get over it like they did with the vietnamese in the 70s.

The idea of privilege is that you don't really notice having it because it is to seem natural to you.

It's a nice way of saying "you don't understand because your not me".
It's also a nice way of saying "you can't have a discussion because your not me so you don't understand".

Anything that makes it impossible to discuss something with someone because they have this self righteous knowledge is rubbish.

Ok then if there is going to be privilege i reserve the right to declare under privilege on people.

it's a nice way of saying " because of my privilege I have received a more complete education so you wouldn't understand the high concepts I am trying to explain"

Bullockist wrote:
It's a nice way of saying "you don't understand because your not me".
It's also a nice way of saying "you can't have a discussion because your not me so you don't understand".

You can understand it fine, and there are lots of resources online that will help you do it. For example, here's one: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/

I'm sure there are lots more if you google the topic.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Privilege is like living in the matrix.

Impossible to prove? Fictional?

I can understand the concept fine. I think it is harder to show the concept in practicality.

What I don't like is how people use it as a weapon to kill discussion. when someone says "that's privilege" then gets a retort and says "that's because of privilege" it really annoys me. Instead of discussing something the person is basically saying "I am right and you cannot contribute to the discussion, only those with colour, a vagina or a disability can contribute" . I'm quite sure if i wanted to i could join the under privilege club, I don't want to , it is an anathema to me. I don't want to have excuses for my life, my life is up to me.

After reading Ilyka Damens : occasional conversations with my man are constructive, I'd like to ask if the feminist movement could do the same thing when hearing things in society and say "it's not about me. It's not about me" and we might get more constructive dialogue instead of near hysteria on gender issues.

I'm not sure i want to keep clicking links after reading the posting guidelines on I blame the patriarchy were to say the least bizarre. The feminist world on the interwebs seems a little closed and filled with the whole privilege issue i talked about previously. I think I'll just stick to feminist books (occasionally) and more humourous "womens" sites.

Although I do agree with this post http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/07/01/a-womans-right-to-chores/ and it's lacking the anger which seems to be so prevalent in the feminist world on the interwebs which I had only associate with the "man groups" crazy "spokesmen"

this post was interesting http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/06/27/good-hit-bad-hit-abuse-of-girls-in-sports/ but I think apart from the raping (which could also happen) do people think this doesn't happen in male sports? I have just discovered most of my male coaches in sports were abusers. feth me.

I think I may have to read femsite, looks interesting and distinctly lacking the crazy I saw after browsing feminist sites for an hour.

Bullockist wrote:
I can understand the concept fine. I think it is harder to show the concept in practicality.

What I don't like is how people use it as a weapon to kill discussion. when someone says "that's privilege" then gets a retort and says "that's because of privilege" it really annoys me. Instead of discussing something the person is basically saying "I am right and you cannot contribute to the discussion, only those with colour, a vagina or a disability can contribute"

Intersectionality describes the interaction of different kinds of privilege. For example, as a woman I don't benefit from male privilege, but I'm white so I am privileged in that area. You can benefit from male privilege while not being privileged in a host of different areas.

Bullockist wrote:
I'm quite sure if i wanted to i could join the under privilege club, I don't want to , it is an anathema to me. I don't want to have excuses for my life, my life is up to me.

You don't get a choice. It's not about "making excuses for [your] life." Social justice isn't about complaining so you feel good - and the whole idea that the point of it would be to complain so you feel good, not because of any genuine injustice, props up the whole system. Social justice is about identifying these things so that you can work against them and hopefully avoid perpetuating them as much as you otherwise would.

I'd appreciate an example of "using it as a weapon to kill discussion" because it's really hard for me to address it as a general case.

Bullockist wrote:
After reading Ilyka Damens : occasional conversations with my man are constructive, I'd like to ask if the feminist movement could do the same thing when hearing things in society and say "it's not about me. It's not about me" and we might get more constructive dialogue instead of near hysteria on gender issues.

"Hysteria" is a pretty appropriate term for you to use. The usual problem in these discussions is that people with privilege will freak out and do anything they can to deny they have privilege or otherwise derail the discussion instead of just talking about it. There's also a long-standing history of portraying women as overemotional and irrational in this sort of thing.

I run a clan in APB:R with 130-140 members across 5 continents. It's pointless to make assumptions about any one of those members based on their sex alone, I've booted male players for being total neckbeards towards female members, I've seen female members carry the team. Similarly I've had to boot females for bad behaviour, and obviously there are some male prodigies around. Age seems like a far more reliable determinant as to how a gamer acts/performs than gender, but even then you get a wide variance. As a game, APB:R is noted for it's extremely detailed level of customisation, clothing, characters, cars can all be personalised to an extent I've yet to see in any other game. The assumption among many in the community is that female gamers spend more time using this feature, when in reality males are just as inclined to spend hours getting the colour 'just right' so it matches their ensemble.

Yes, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. *shrug*

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:

Intersectionality describes the interaction of different kinds of privilege. For example, as a woman I don't benefit from male privilege, but I'm white so I am privileged in that area. You can benefit from male privilege while not being privileged in a host of different areas.

You don't get a choice. It's not about "making excuses for [your] life." Social justice isn't about complaining so you feel good - and the whole idea that the point of it would be to complain so you feel good, not because of any genuine injustice, props up the whole system. Social justice is about identifying these things so that you can work against them and hopefully avoid perpetuating them as much as you otherwise would.

I'd appreciate an example of "using it as a weapon to kill discussion" because it's really hard for me to address it as a general case.

"Hysteria" is a pretty appropriate term for you to use. The usual problem in these discussions is that people with privilege will freak out and do anything they can to deny they have privilege or otherwise derail the discussion instead of just talking about it. There's also a long-standing history of portraying women as overemotional and irrational in this sort of thing.

Multiquote why can i not understand how to use you
On social justice i agree with you in theory, how many people do you think don't use them to make themselves feel good
The weapon to kill discussion can be seen on the end of page 5 and start of page 6 of this thread i believe.

Hysteria can apparently be treated by cocaine and steam powered ...erm...fun things as well. I was trying to say the media seeing these issues as easy news like to pump them up and get the most divisive opinions to generate a few days of news for no effort. I'd just like people discussing these thing so not be so polar in their views and therefore be discussing and not just making statements at each other , but again I'm talking about people aren't I

MarsNZ comes in with the best opinion I have heard in the whole thread. It's about people not gender...thankyou
What is this game you play? I don't recognise the acronym.

Bullockist wrote:


MarsNZ comes in with the best opinion I have heard in the whole thread. It's about people not gender...thankyou
What is this game you play? I don't recognise the acronym.

Hey thanks, it felt like I was rambling a little but I seem to have got my point across none the less.

APB:R = All Points Bulletin: Reloaded

It's sort of like GTA but an MMO, that's a rather simplistic way of describing it but yeah. Be warned, the community is extremely toxic but the game is incredibly addictive even with its brutal learning curve.

Here is a recent fun one. Project X Zone review

The reviewer says that some of the attitudes toward women are outdated and here are just some of the responses, and mind you, nowhere in the review does the word feminist or feminism show up:

I'm not hating on you Carolyn, but why the fvck do feminists have to make a big deal about the smallest of things?

Stopped reading at the feminist remark.

You are just a Japanese game Hater dammit, Dont let this guy review japanese games

I hate Carolyn Petit this person make me sick.

seriously, is it so important to the reception of THE GAME ? Does it in any way determine THE GAME ?
That's the problem with feminism; you just don't know where to stop. Why are you so oppressive ? There are bigger problems in the world than some supposed-to-be-funny-but-abusive comments in a video game.
Only petty people worry about petty things...

Keep your political/social view bias out of the video game review. Seriously I don't come here to read that garbage.

I stopped reading about here and left out all the comments about her looks.

Bullockist wrote:
"I am right and you cannot contribute to the discussion, only those with colour, a vagina or a disability can contribute"

Is this what you think I did? Because I have none of those things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
I run a clan in APB:R with 130-140 members across 5 continents. It's pointless to make assumptions about any one of those members based on their sex alone, I've booted male players for being total neckbeards towards female members, I've seen female members carry the team. Similarly I've had to boot females for bad behaviour, and obviously there are some male prodigies around. Age seems like a far more reliable determinant as to how a gamer acts/performs than gender, but even then you get a wide variance.

You sound like a pretty great clan leader. Keep that up and spread your attitude as much as possible.

it's the way you use privilege in a discussion. You say that's privilege and leave it at that, then say i can't explain it to you.

You may as well say "because sea monkey".

The way you are "pointing" it out to people isn't exactly helpful.

 Ahtman wrote:
Here is a recent fun one. Project X Zone reviewI stopped reading about here and left out all the comments about her looks.

In fairness, and this is 100% real, I thought that was a picture of a man. I'm not saying that it's cool to call a woman "him" to be a dick, but there is room for a small benefit of the doubt here.

I think she was reaching a bit with her portrayal of the game as "sexist" but I can see where she is coming from. As to the comments I think we're just back to fact that the comment section of anything on the internet is going to be filled with savages.

 Ahtman wrote:
Here is a recent fun one. Project X Zone review

The reviewer says that some of the attitudes toward women are outdated and here are just some of the responses, and mind you, nowhere in the review does the word feminist or feminism show up:

Just to get that right: there is a tiny paragraph about outdated views of women and people are all over it? That's ridiculous.

...and really, people go to Gamespot for reviews? GAMESPOT? Come on now.

/e: Just googled Caroyln Petit...and am confused. Man or woman?

/ee: Seems to be a man, found an article about him being born a man and now longing to be a woman.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Here is a recent fun one. Project X Zone review

The reviewer says that some of the attitudes toward women are outdated and here are just some of the responses, and mind you, nowhere in the review does the word feminist or feminism show up:

Just to get that right: there is a tiny paragraph about outdated views of women and people are all over it? That's ridiculous.

...and really, people go to Gamespot for reviews? GAMESPOT? Come on now.

I'm a metacritic man, myself.

I never used to read reviews, but damn, games aren't cheap and there's nothing worse than paying 60$ for a clunker.

I usually don't read the reviews, but saw the blurb about 'outdated ideas' and was curious as to where it was going.

 Monster Rain wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Here is a recent fun one. Project X Zone review

The reviewer says that some of the attitudes toward women are outdated and here are just some of the responses, and mind you, nowhere in the review does the word feminist or feminism show up:

Just to get that right: there is a tiny paragraph about outdated views of women and people are all over it? That's ridiculous.

...and really, people go to Gamespot for reviews? GAMESPOT? Come on now.

I'm a metacritic man, myself.

I never used to read reviews, but damn, games aren't cheap and there's nothing worse than paying 60$ for a clunker.

High five! I also refer to metacritic for anything about games. Reviews are entirely subjective, but metacritic helps getting a wider look at games. Good site.

The trick is to actually read a lot of reviews, ignoring their stupid meaningless numeric scores, and figure out what the author likes and dislikes relative to your own preferences.

It's the only way to actually understand what you're seeing. 1-100 scores are the worst thing.

[edit: Nevermind. We're getting off topic here, talking about metacritic... ]

My girlfriend plays the hell out of sims 3. There is some serious drama in her neighborhoods.