Permissive Ruleset question (regarding the resolution of psychic powers)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**sirlynchmob**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

You are given permission to resolve the power

You are not told to not resolve the power

You apply -1T. If you do not apply a second -1T, you have broken a rule.

Again: the rules for psychic powers give permission for powers to resolve (by definition, or will you argue this withh a nonexistent rule?). Nothing restricts how they resolve but the powers wording itself - by their nature certain powers have no effect from multiple castings, while others will do.

It is amazingly simple. You are making up a requirement for a rule that doesnt exist, and crying foul that people cannot fidn this rule.

You resolve the second enfeeble, you can resolve a 3rd enfeeble. Then when you look at the unit, you see it is enfeebled. -1T. Unless it says its cumulative, it's not.

**hyv3mynd**

sirlynchmob wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

You are given permission to resolve the power

You are not told to not resolve the power

You apply -1T. If you do not apply a second -1T, you have broken a rule.

Again: the rules for psychic powers give permission for powers to resolve (by definition, or will you argue this withh a nonexistent rule?). Nothing restricts how they resolve but the powers wording itself - by their nature certain powers have no effect from multiple castings, while others will do.

It is amazingly simple. You are making up a requirement for a rule that doesnt exist, and crying foul that people cannot fidn this rule.

Unless it says its cumulative, it's not.

Page # for this rule pls?

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

You are given permission to resolve the power

You are not told to not resolve the power

You apply -1T. If you do not apply a second -1T, you have broken a rule.

Again: the rules for psychic powers give permission for powers to resolve (by definition, or will you argue this withh a nonexistent rule?). Nothing restricts how they resolve but the powers wording itself - by their nature certain powers have no effect from multiple castings, while others will do.

It is amazingly simple. You are making up a requirement for a rule that doesnt exist, and crying foul that people cannot fidn this rule.

Unless it says its cumulative, it's not.

Page # for this rule pls?

permissive rule set remember?

**hyv3mynd**

sirlynchmob wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

You are given permission to resolve the power

You are not told to not resolve the power

You apply -1T. If you do not apply a second -1T, you have broken a rule.

Again: the rules for psychic powers give permission for powers to resolve (by definition, or will you argue this withh a nonexistent rule?). Nothing restricts how they resolve but the powers wording itself - by their nature certain powers have no effect from multiple castings, while others will do.

It is amazingly simple. You are making up a requirement for a rule that doesnt exist, and crying foul that people cannot fidn this rule.

Unless it says its cumulative, it's not.

Page # for this rule pls?

permissive rule set remember?

Never forget!

I have permission to use psychic powers following the proper process, including resolution. Enfeeble is not resolved until you subtract the stats. Once it's resolves, I move on to a different psyker who has permission to do the same. Now the target has -2t thanks to permission to resolve.

Care to cite the rule requested? If not, thanks for conceding.

**kambien**

hyv3mynd wrote:
Enfeeble is not resolved until you subtract the stats. .

if you cast enfeeble on a IC that has a piece of wargear that prevents it's stat from being modified , what happens ?

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

You are given permission to resolve the power

You are not told to not resolve the power

You apply -1T. If you do not apply a second -1T, you have broken a rule.

Again: the rules for psychic powers give permission for powers to resolve (by definition, or will you argue this withh a nonexistent rule?). Nothing restricts how they resolve but the powers wording itself - by their nature certain powers have no effect from multiple castings, while others will do.

It is amazingly simple. You are making up a requirement for a rule that doesnt exist, and crying foul that people cannot fidn this rule.

Unless it says its cumulative, it's not.

Page # for this rule pls?

permissive rule set remember?

Never forget!

I have permission to use psychic powers following the proper process, including resolution. Enfeeble is not resolved until you subtract the stats. Once it's resolves, I move on to a different psyker who has permission to do the same. Now the target has -2t thanks to permission to resolve.

Care to cite the rule requested? If not, thanks for conceding.

different psychers, are not different maledictions. enfeeble is enfeeble, they're identical, ie not different.

can you cite anywhere where enfeeble is allowed to stack?

I'll wait for your concession.

**rigeld2**

Basic math. Multiple modifiers.

**hyv3mynd**

rigeld2 wrote:
Basic math. Multiple modifiers.

This. Also there is no rule in writing anywhere preventing identical maledictions from being cumulative.

Since sirlynchmob has failed to quote an actual rule in a rules discussion, thanks for conceding. Have a great day!

**sirlynchmob**

rigeld2 wrote:
Basic math. Multiple modifiers.

Basic math is not RAW, and you don't get multiple modifies til the rules say you do. Enfeeble is not cumulative with enfeeble, ergo no multiple modifier.

**hyv3mynd**

sirlynchmob wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Basic math. Multiple modifiers.

Basic math is not RAW, and you don't get multiple modifies til the rules say you do. Enfeeble is not cumulative with enfeeble, ergo no multiple modifier.

Continue making up rules with no backing all you like, it doesn't change the fact that by actual RAW you are 100% incorrect.

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Basic math. Multiple modifiers.

Basic math is not RAW, and you don't get multiple modifies til the rules say you do. Enfeeble is not cumulative with enfeeble, ergo no multiple modifier.

Continue making up rules with no backing all you like, it doesn't change the fact that by actual RAW you are 100% incorrect.

You're projecting your own failings again.

all you need to do is cite where enfeeble is cumulative. still waiting. and until you can, you are 100% wrong.

**hyv3mynd**

Check pg1 it's all there. If you don't resolve -1 twice, you've broken the rule allowing maledictions to be cast and resolved. There are no rules preventing this from happening, and permission is granted for 2 psykers to each use enfeeble once.

Thanks for conceding the debate.

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
Check pg1 it's all there. If you don't resolve -1 twice, you've broken the rule allowing maledictions to be cast and resolved. There are no rules preventing this from happening, and permission is granted for 2 psykers to each use enfeeble once.

Thanks for conceding the debate.

now you just need to prove the resolution has anything to do with the -1 T, Until it says it cumulative, its only ever going to be -1T regardless of how many enfeebles you put on it. because they are not differing maledictions, they are not cumulative. I know thats hard to understand when you think different = identical.

There is no page 1, thanks for failing harder.

**tgjensen**

This is priceless.

Hey guys, I was just wondering cause I was reading the shooting phase rules. It says if my Warboss takes an unsaved wound I should reduce his wounds by 1. But it doesn't say it's cumulative, so does he just stay at 2 wounds? Can I just put him up front of a unit and let him soak up all the wounds?

**rigeld2**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Basic math is not RAW

And we're done. Thanks for playing gents.

**hyv3mynd**

Pg1 of the thread. Here it is since you're having such a hard time today.

rigeld2 wrote:
RESOLVE PSYCHIC POWER
Assuming that the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not nullify it through a successful Deny the Witch roll, you can now resolve the psychic power according to instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry. Thus resolving it twice is -2 as per multiple modifiers. If you have not subtracted 2 from 2 instances of enfeeble, you broke the rule allowing resolution.

The rule does not state "only different" nor does is prohibit "identical" maledictions.

The restrictions you are fabricating have no rules actually in writing (no RAW). At this point you can either quote a rule, or I'll consider further responses trolling as you've conceded the point.

**kambien**

hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
Pg1 of the thread. Here it is since you're having such a hard time today.

rigeld2 wrote:
RESOLVE PSYCHIC POWER
Assuming that the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not nullify it through a successful Deny the Witch roll, you can now resolve the psychic power according to instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry. Thus resolving it twice is -2 as per multiple modifiers. If you have not subtracted 2 from 2 instances of enfeeble, you broke the rule allowing resolution.

The rule does not state "only different" nor does is prohibit "identical" maledictions.

The restrictions you are fabricating have no rules actually in writing (no RAW). At this point you can either quote a rule, or I'll consider further responses trolling as you've conceded the point.

You're forgetting what permissive rule set means again.

And just cause rigeld2 said it, what page is that written on? oh ya its not.

Enfeeble says "when this power is in effect, not when it is resolved. so you can have 3 enfeebles in effect, and as they are not cumulative, its still just -1.

when you can quote a rules page other than a picture, and not someones opinion, let me know.

**hyv3mynd**

kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Cool story bro.

Have any actual rules to back your fantasy or you want to ignore the tenets of the forum like sirlynchmob?

**sirlynchmob**

rigeld2 wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Basic math is not RAW

And we're done. Thanks for playing gents.

This one is easy, everyone playing 40k is doing some basic math wrong. lets look at page 91. area terrain grants a 5+ cover save, going to ground receive +2 to cover save, 5+2=7 right? I mean basic math and RAW pg 2 and all.

**hyv3mynd**

sirlynchmob wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
Pg1 of the thread. Here it is since you're having such a hard time today.

rigeld2 wrote:
RESOLVE PSYCHIC POWER
Assuming that the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not nullify it through a successful Deny the Witch roll, you can now resolve the psychic power according to instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry. Thus resolving it twice is -2 as per multiple modifiers. If you have not subtracted 2 from 2 instances of enfeeble, you broke the rule allowing resolution.

The rule does not state "only different" nor does is prohibit "identical" maledictions.

The restrictions you are fabricating have no rules actually in writing (no RAW). At this point you can either quote a rule, or I'll consider further responses trolling as you've conceded the point.

You're forgetting what permissive rule set means again.

And just cause rigeld2 said it, what page is that written on? oh ya its not.

Enfeeble says "when this power is in effect, not when it is resolved. so you can have 3 enfeebles in effect, and as they are not cumulative, its still just -1.

when you can quote a rules page other than a picture, and not someones opinion, let me know.

.

Citation pls. Last time I'll ask for a rules quote.

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
Pg1 of the thread. Here it is since you're having such a hard time today.

rigeld2 wrote:
RESOLVE PSYCHIC POWER
Assuming that the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not nullify it through a successful Deny the Witch roll, you can now resolve the psychic power according to instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry. Thus resolving it twice is -2 as per multiple modifiers. If you have not subtracted 2 from 2 instances of enfeeble, you broke the rule allowing resolution.

The rule does not state "only different" nor does is prohibit "identical" maledictions.

The restrictions you are fabricating have no rules actually in writing (no RAW). At this point you can either quote a rule, or I'll consider further responses trolling as you've conceded the point.

You're forgetting what permissive rule set means again.

And just cause rigeld2 said it, what page is that written on? oh ya its not.

Enfeeble says "when this power is in effect, not when it is resolved. so you can have 3 enfeebles in effect, and as they are not cumulative, its still just -1.

when you can quote a rules page other than a picture, and not someones opinion, let me know.
.

Citation pls. Last time I'll ask for a rules quote.

Once you provide one other than a picture I'll send you a bunch.

**kambien**

hyv3mynd wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Cool story bro.

Have any actual rules to back your fantasy or you want to ignore the tenets of the forum like sirlynchmob?

your are not using the definition of resolve if that is all your doing

**sirlynchmob**

kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Cool story bro.

Have any actual rules to back your fantasy or you want to ignore the tenets of the forum like sirlynchmob?

your are not using the definition of resolve if that is all your doing

Sure I am, once again from the top I guess:
"different maledictions are cumulative" pg 68,
pg 419, "when the power is in effect" not when it is resolved.
While we're on 419, how many different maledictions do we see? 7
is enfeeble a different malediction than enfeeble? no, Basic english

so until someone can show where enfeeble is given permission to be cumulative, It is not, based on the rules from pg 68.

**hyv3mynd**

sirlynchmob wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Cool story bro.

Have any actual rules to back your fantasy or you want to ignore the tenets of the forum like sirlynchmob?

your are not using the definition of resolve if that is all your doing

Sure I am, once again from the top I guess:
"different maledictions are cumulative" pg 68,
pg 419, "when the power is in effect" not when it is resolved.
While we're on 419, how many different maledictions do we see? 7
is enfeeble a different malediction than enfeeble? no, Basic english

so until someone can show where enfeeble is given permission to be cumulative, It is not, based on the rules from pg 68.

I'll see your basic English and raise you basic logic.

D=different
m=maledictions
C=cumulative

Dm=C does not logically mean !Dm=!C

Or if you skipped that day in school:

"Different maledictions are cumulative" does not equal "identical maledictions are not cumulative".

Hence you have no rule backing.

If you cannot make a logical argument, cannot quote any real rules, and cannot follow simple math, I'm done discussing with you. Good luck to you sir.

**rigeld2**

sirlynchmob wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
Pg1 of the thread. Here it is since you're having such a hard time today.

rigeld2 wrote:
RESOLVE PSYCHIC POWER
Assuming that the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not nullify it through a successful Deny the Witch roll, you can now resolve the psychic power according to instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry. Thus resolving it twice is -2 as per multiple modifiers. If you have not subtracted 2 from 2 instances of enfeeble, you broke the rule allowing resolution.

The rule does not state "only different" nor does is prohibit "identical" maledictions.

The restrictions you are fabricating have no rules actually in writing (no RAW). At this point you can either quote a rule, or I'll consider further responses trolling as you've conceded the point.

You're forgetting what permissive rule set means again.

And just cause rigeld2 said it, what page is that written on? oh ya its not.

Enfeeble says "when this power is in effect, not when it is resolved. so you can have 3 enfeebles in effect, and as they are not cumulative, its still just -1.

when you can quote a rules page other than a picture, and not someones opinion, let me know.

Accusing me of making up rules? Really? Perhaps you could open your rulebook up to page 68 and apologize?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

sirlynchmob wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Basic math is not RAW

And we're done. Thanks for playing gents.

This one is easy, everyone playing 40k is doing some basic math wrong. lets look at page 91. area terrain grants a 5+ cover save, going to ground receive +2 to cover save, 5+2=7 right? I mean basic math and RAW pg 2 and all.

Perhaps you should re-read the rules on increasing cover saves.
Your assertion is still wrong, and you are failing in every way to defend your point especially when you accuse others of inventing rules quotes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Please enlighten me as to what Enfeebles entry says then.
I've proven that to resolve a power you must apply its entry.

**sirlynchmob**

hyv3mynd wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:
kambien wrote:
hyv3mynd wrote:

Resolving enfeeble is -1 s/t as per the instructions in its entry.

is incorrect

Cool story bro.

Have any actual rules to back your fantasy or you want to ignore the tenets of the forum like sirlynchmob?

your are not using the definition of resolve if that is all your doing

Sure I am, once again from the top I guess:
"different maledictions are cumulative" pg 68,
pg 419, "when the power is in effect" not when it is resolved.
While we're on 419, how many different maledictions do we see? 7
is enfeeble a different malediction than enfeeble? no, Basic english

so until someone can show where enfeeble is given permission to be cumulative, It is not, based on the rules from pg 68.

I'll see your basic English and raise you basic logic.

D=different
m=maledictions
C=cumulative

Dm=C does not logically mean !Dm=!C

Or if you skipped that day in school:

"Different maledictions are cumulative" does not equal "identical maledictions are not cumulative".

Hence you have no rule backing.

Funny I quoted my rules saying Dm=c, now where is your rule saying Sm=c? Permission for different to be cumulative, no permission for the same to be cumulative. Hence your projecting your failure at finding rules unto me. as you have no rule to stand on.

**tgjensen**

Seriously though guys. Wounds aren't cumulative, right? I can't find it anywhere in the rulebook.

**DeathReaper**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Funny I quoted my rules saying Dm=c, now where is your rule saying Sm=c? Permission for different to be cumulative, no permission for the same to be cumulative. Hence your projecting your failure at finding rules unto me. as you have no rule to stand on.

Page 68 under resolving powers, and page 419 under the Enfeeble entry in the big BRB (Not sure about a page number for the small one, but it is on the page with the Biomancy Psychic powers).

There is your permission to cast and resolve enfeeble from two different casters. Any restriction on these castings not stacking?

there is no need to define 4-1-1 =2 because the basic rules of math already tell us this. In a permissive ruleset defining 4-1-1 =2 is not needed.

**sirlynchmob**

DeathReaper wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Funny I quoted my rules saying Dm=c, now where is your rule saying Sm=c? Permission for different to be cumulative, no permission for the same to be cumulative. Hence your projecting your failure at finding rules unto me. as you have no rule to stand on.

Page 68 under resolving powers, and page 419 under the Enfeeble entry in the big BRB (Not sure about a page number for the small one, but it is on the page with the Biomancy Psychic powers).

There is your permission to cast and resolve enfeeble from two different casters. Any restriction on these castings not stacking?

there is no need to define 4-1-1 =2 because the basic rules of math already tell us this. In a permissive ruleset defining 4-1-1 =2 is not needed.

It's amazing how quickly people forget how permissive rule sets work. Where is the permission for enfeeble to stack with enfeeble? You can resolve multiple enfeebles, but only different maledictions are cumulative. different caster, same malediction.