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So, I was looking at the new eldar stuff, and saw the nice, new plastic farseer right above the exact same older model. I realized, that at least to me, it looked like it was the same quality, or even better. I was looking over the rules for nightspear, and when I realized I wanted to be able to field him, my first thought was "Ok, so what do I need to do to convert him" MY second thought was, "oh, don't worry, the finecast won't be so bad" I than realized that google images is the best way to kill off niave thoughts of finecast adequacy.
I understand the move from metal to "high quality resin", but if they can sell a plastic farseer for the same price as an old resin one, why do they continue to sell finecast??? It was supposed to be a stopgap for the move to plastic, right? Some people actually prefer plastic for conversions and posing options, so why don't they make a switch for the new special characters? Do they really believe that producing a better material w/ more hobby options that is cheaper to produce is going to hurt their bottom line? I mean the fireblade and new farseer are the same price as the finecast!

I propose a challenge to the dakka community. For every 2 pieces of finecast that you buy, try to covert or kitbash from plastic at least one model.
That way we can at least feel better about finecast, because it existing is hurting Kirby's retirement fund. Drops in a bucket, maybe they will notice.

Rant over.

Because GW sells a lot of models to kids and WAAC players who don't care if the model is damaged. Finecast is cheap and probably makes a good enough profit margin to cover the returns and lost sales from people who do care about their models.

 Peregrine wrote:
Because GW sells a lot of models to kids and WAAC players who don't care if the model is damaged. Finecast is cheap and probably makes a good enough profit margin to cover the returns and lost sales from people who do care about their models.

Ok, so its based on either lazyness or incompetence to develope a cheaper product with the same or better quality with better options for converting and being easier to assemble while still carrying the same pricetag? Well, this is why we are seeing all these doom posts on the dakka discussions!

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Ok, so its based on either lazyness or incompetence to develope a cheaper product with the same or better quality with better options for converting and being easier to assemble while still carrying the same pricetag? Well, this is why we are seeing all these doom posts on the dakka discussions!

It's not necessarily laziness or incompetence. It could be a perfectly rational business decision that maximizing profit margins on sales to the customers who don't care if their models are flawed gives more profit than spending money on better quality control to make a different group of customers happy.

The metal molds for plastics are expensive, hence GW uses the less expensive molds used for casting resins to recoup their investments faster on models that they've deemed will not sell enough units to make in plastic.

All I know is that they still make the old style stealth suits. If I have any say in the matter I will never buy a box of plastic stealth suits from GW unless they start making the old style in plastic. The new ones look hideous. I'd rather fill in holes myself with epoxy than look at those walking toasters in my army.

The first casts of finecast was horrid... these days (the newer ones) are atleast better i havent found any bubbles or twisted parts in my latest model... the first on the other hand had massive amount of em got those back for cash.. untill a couple of months later when my friend bought some Dark elf finecast stuff, good details no bubbles.. so i tried again and i'm pleased with the result.

I Think the big reason was they went directly changing the cast and still used the metal molds but later changed the molds to suit the new cast.

Man, if I have to buy TWO finecast models then im not even in this challenge...

Seriously though guys, finecast isnt a stopgap, its a shipping solution. Less weight means less shipping cost.

They will continue to sell it as long as people continue to buy it.

The only way to see fine cast go away is to QUIT BUYING IT.

Switch to another model as a "stand in" , find another manufacturer that offers a "look alike" something...just dont buy finecast.

Honestly, in comparison to how it used to be Finecast is quite good now. But really, they will keep selling it as long as people keep buying it...

Because plastic injection molding is a pain in the ass. you need to engineer the mold the have uniform pressure, without any air traps, and account for pull back during the cooling.

Plastic also takes a much higher toll on the mold. a resin mold can be used near indefinitely iirc but the constant push/pull of cooling molten plastic will eventually wear the mold obscuring detail. So unless they plan to sell a metric fetch ton of models fine crap is more profitable and GW is a publiclly traded company so at the end of the day they are answerable only to their shareholders and profit margins.

What I don't understand is the new releases being in finecast. I preordered a Fireblade and Darkstrider. the Fireblade (plastic) had amazing detail and no flaws. the Darkstrider (Finecast) was butchered with lines that didnt line up, and pieces of resin that I couldnt tell if it was part of the model or excess.

And then I opened up my Crisis Commander.....the Tau symbol on the front of his chest was so messed up that i had to model to make it look like it was shot, and even then it is so uneven that you can still tell it was messed up.....

I don't mind the finecast for the old pewter models, but when they are creating new models they need to stick with plastic.

One advantage Finecast has over plastics *for us* (so, outside of any GW reasons like the creation process or profit margin) - it's a hell of a lot easier to convert. Hell, if the piece is thin enough you can BEND the stuff with some hot water and when it cools off it'll stay that way.

I also haven't managed to break or even chip a finecast model by dropping it yet, which happens to me all the time with metal and plastic.

Finecast is better than metal for charectors, I wouldn't want to build a squad out of them though.

I did a poll a while back to find out the return rate on finecast - it's a lot lower than what some of the above posts seem to be saying. I think the average hobbyist's main gripe is with the fragility (which is over stated) rather than the quality control.

 BryllCream wrote:
I think the average hobbyist's main gripe is with the fragility (which is over stated) rather than the quality control.

I talked to one guy and the reason he hated them wasn't quality control (what he bought was reasonably good to hear him tell it) because apparently resin melts at a MUCH lower temp than plastic. He left his army in his car one day and came back to find little puddles where all this fancy finecast stuff used to be.

I must be the only person left in the world who has never had a finecast miscast (and I have dozens of finecast models) and thinks it is generally a good medium! Oh well, best keep quiet about that...

Personally, I will go out of my way to not buy another fine cast model.

If I need another Necron Lord, do you think I am going to buy a Finecast one? Nope, eBay for the plastic necron lord from the Annihilation Barge kit.

If I need another Cryptek, I am going to use the extra staves I've got from Lychguard kit and Deathmark heads I've got left over on Necron Warrior bodies.

As for what OP is asking, as Peregrine said, it is cheaper for them and they can claim it is "higher" quality so they can charge the same price, or more. Basically, its a business plow. Its all about money.

Isengard wrote:
I must be the only person left in the world who has never had a finecast miscast (and I have dozens of finecast models) and thinks it is generally a good medium! Oh well, best keep quiet about that...

I think I only have three, an Ork Painboy, an Ork Big Mek with KFF, and a WHFB Warriors of Chaos Valkia.

Haven't had any issues with any of them.

Apart from the parts of my Valkia not wanting to stick to each other with superglue, but I'm guessing it's because the parts join together with very little surface area. So I applied a layer of Liquid Green Stuff over the joins, and they stuck much better. ^^

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
Personally, I will go out of my way to not buy another fine cast model.

If I need another Necron Lord, do you think I am going to buy a Finecast one? Nope, eBay for the plastic necron lord from the Annihilation Barge kit.

If I need another Cryptek, I am going to use the extra staves I've got from Lychguard kit and Deathmark heads I've got left over on Necron Warrior bodies.

I'm not alone!

Isengard wrote:
I must be the only person left in the world who has never had a finecast miscast (and I have dozens of finecast models) and thinks it is generally a good medium! Oh well, best keep quiet about that...

Nope, there's two of us.

Isengard wrote:
I must be the only person left in the world who has never had a finecast miscast (and I have dozens of finecast models) and thinks it is generally a good medium! Oh well, best keep quiet about that...

You're not. I like fine cast: I've never have a single poor model, other than a slightly bent sword which was easy to move back into place.
I'd prefer plastic, but fine cast has been 100% good for me so far that I'll keep spending my money on it.

 Vladamyr wrote:


And then I opened up my Crisis Commander.....the Tau symbol on the front of his chest was so messed up that i had to model to make it look like it was shot, and even then it is so uneven that you can still tell it was messed up.....

Exactly why GW will keep selling it. Instead of returning the faulty item, you just dealth with it and now have a £25 mess of a model. If everyone returned the faulty finecast products the nuber of exchanges they would have to make would start to loose them money as a business and they may consider plastic, or better quality control or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I only own 2 finecast models, terminartor librarian had minor air bubble damage, and Assault chaplain had bent crozius. these are easy to fix. However a friend has had Coteaz with an eagle head missing and air bubble dmage on some intricate detail which was impossible to re-sculpt and another who got a necron over lord with half a staff.

 Portugal Jones wrote:

Isengard wrote:
I must be the only person left in the world who has never had a finecast miscast (and I have dozens of finecast models) and thinks it is generally a good medium! Oh well, best keep quiet about that...

Nope, there's two of us.

There's some data on this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/514871.page

Finecast return rate isn't as high as the vocal minority would suggest.

The problem with finecast for me is two things. One any models staff or long weapon like sniper rifles are usually always bent and finecast break so easily. I spent £9 on a necron lord and within 5 seconds of light handling the staff he had snapped in two. I didnt take it back because it was more effort than it was worth so i just left it. I might try to fix it now i have necrons.

 BryllCream wrote:
Finecast return rate isn't as high as the vocal minority would suggest.

Now is this because the product genuinely has a low failure rate, or is it because a lot of GW's customers don't care about their models and will just accept the flaws? Besides the obvious people with gray plastic hordes (many of them broken anyway because of rough treatment) you also have people like Vladamyr in this thread, who just accept the flaws as their problem and kind of fix it instead of returning it. So any numbers on finecast return rates are going to be skewed in favor of "few returns" by people who are getting defective products but not returning them.

And of course the counter-argument to this is the recent thread about commission painters refusing to work with finecast anymore. These are people who have a financial stake in the discussion and would be throwing away money if they were doing it just to join the popular "finecast sucks" crowd, so their refusal to work with it suggests that the failure rate really is much higher than other models.

not much a fan of finecast although I have heard its got bit better than how it started

bought a wraithseer (cant remember the name) and it was the best fine cast I have come a cross no faults or bent staff or what not

But hav eto agree ther ewas no need for gw to produce finecast there plastic kits are better by a comfortable margin but something I have noticed why cant gw use the same resin compound that FW use as cant say I have had any problem with FW stuff

 Peregrine wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Finecast return rate isn't as high as the vocal minority would suggest.

Now is this because the product genuinely has a low failure rate, or is it because a lot of GW's customers don't care about their models and will just accept the flaws? Besides the obvious people with gray plastic hordes (many of them broken anyway because of rough treatment) you also have people like Vladamyr in this thread, who just accept the flaws as their problem and kind of fix it instead of returning it. So any numbers on finecast return rates are going to be skewed in favor of "few returns" by people who are getting defective products but not returning them.

And of course the counter-argument to this is the recent thread about commission painters refusing to work with finecast anymore. These are people who have a financial stake in the discussion and would be throwing away money if they were doing it just to join the popular "finecast sucks" crowd, so their refusal to work with it suggests that the failure rate really is much higher than other models.

I would say judging by the sort of posts that people make, that it is actually a case of hyper-sensitivity to "flaws" that most people simply wouldn't be concerned with.

There is no reason whatsoever for a professional painter to refuse to do finecast if he's making money on it, unless he's simply whinging about gw. It makes about as much sense as refusing to paint pyrovores because they're crappy, or refusing to paint Catachan because they're ugly.

I'm not a huge fan fan of finecast due to the warping that occurs on some of the thinner moulds, however, like people have said, it has improved alot since they first switched to finecast so think of it as a learning curve for games workshop (1 that they should have researched more first) but at the end of the day theyre getting much better at it.

the pros of finecast is that it is 1) alot lighter [as people have already said] but 2) and more importantly this, is the detail they can now put on the models, its just incredible.
i'd call finecast an experimental upgrade.

 QuincyMontenegro wrote:
I'm not a huge fan fan of finecast due to the warping that occurs on some of the thinner moulds, however, like people have said, it has improved alot since they first switched to finecast so think of it as a learning curve for games workshop (1 that they should have researched more first) but at the end of the day theyre getting much better at it.

the pros of finecast is that it is 1) alot lighter [as people have already said] but 2) and more importantly this, is the detail they can now put on the models, its just incredible.
i'd call finecast an experimental upgrade.

From what I heard, when they switched from lead to pewter, they had similarly messed up models for a while.

I have no idea if that's actually true or not, as it was before my time.

There was always problems with the old metal moulds, there is literally no change, i think people mainly attacked the new moulds because of the rise in price that just happened to fall at the same time.
I believe alot of people mustve been thinking "what!? the moneys gone up!? and the materials are cheaper!? OH LOOK! a small fault... *rage*"

I dont mind it as much as i make out, i quite enjoy the extra bit of effort, feels more like a victorious effort when the models are finished

 BryllCream wrote:
I would say judging by the sort of posts that people make, that it is actually a case of hyper-sensitivity to "flaws" that most people simply wouldn't be concerned with.

Sure, but "most people" also play with gray plastic, throw their models into boxes and break off fragile detail bits, etc. Most of them wouldn't care if the entire face was one giant bubble as long as it still works the same in the game.

There is no reason whatsoever for a professional painter to refuse to do finecast if he's making money on it, unless he's simply whinging about gw. It makes about as much sense as refusing to paint pyrovores because they're crappy, or refusing to paint Catachan because they're ugly.

Exactly. A professional painter has no reason to refuse to paint finecast out of anti-GW spite. The only reason to have a no-finecast policy is if the failure rate on finecast kits is so high that it disrupts their business.

 QuincyMontenegro wrote:
There was always problems with the old metal moulds, there is literally no change

No, that's not true at all. Finecast has two major problems that are not present in metal models:

1) Bubbles. Finecast is full of bubbles that destroy detail, or create a fatal weakness in the part so that something breaks off. Metal models did not have this problem at all.

2) Broken parts. Since finecast is so fragile it's really easy for stuff to break off, detail to be crushed, etc. Metal models don't have this problem, you aren't going to have a metal sword break off in shipping just because the package was handled a bit roughly, or a metal detail bit that breaks off if you touch it too hard with a knife while removing the mold lines.