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I figured I'd go for, in a single squad of Leman Russes:
Exterminator - Lascannon, Camo Netting
Eradicator - Lascannon, Camo Netting, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

If I were to use these in a game, I'd have the Exterminator crack transports/light vehicles, and then use the Eradicator to finish off the squad inside (making sure to ignore cover saves, I want them DEAD! Would this work in a game situation? The camo netting is for the first turn, where they will start behind an Aegis Defence Line, to defend them from Broadsides and such, they would then drive as fast as they could to the nearest cover before blowing up Devilfish etc. (Or Rhinos, Wave Serpents and such, but I usually play against Tau)

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
then use the Eradicator to finish off the squad inside

Not legal. All shooting is declared simultaneously and both tanks must fire on the same target, so the squad inside is not a legal target. You would have to destroy the transport and then kill the passengers next turn, if you can.

It's also not a good idea because you're wasting your shooting by having tanks with two different roles in the same squadron where they are forced to fire at the same target.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
then use the Eradicator to finish off the squad inside

Not legal. All shooting is declared simultaneously and both tanks must fire on the same target, so the squad inside is not a legal target. You would have to destroy the transport and then kill the passengers next turn, if you can.

It's also not a good idea because you're wasting your shooting by having tanks with two different roles in the same squadron where they are forced to fire at the same target.

Then put them in separate squads?

 Peregrine wrote:
Not legal. All shooting is declared simultaneously and both tanks must fire on the same target, so the squad inside is not a legal target. You would have to destroy the transport and then kill the passengers next turn, if you can.

You learn something new every day. So by the official rules at the start of your shooting phase you are supposed to go all across your table saying "this squad shoots these weapons at that target, this squad shoots these weapons at that target..."and so on, then go back and roll all the dice afterwords? Does assault work the same way? Do you have to declare all your charges at the start of your assault phase as well? Movement?

If so that totally changes my understanding of how the game is supposed to be played. I've never seen it payed that way (which doesn't mean it isn't supposed to be).

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Not legal. All shooting is declared simultaneously and both tanks must fire on the same target, so the squad inside is not a legal target. You would have to destroy the transport and then kill the passengers next turn, if you can.

You learn something new every day. So by the official rules at the start of your shooting phase you are supposed to go all across your table saying "this squad shoots these weapons at that target, this squad shoots these weapons at that target..."and so on, then go back and roll all the dice afterwords? Does assault work the same way? Do you have to declare all your charges at the start of your assault phase as well? Movement?

If so that totally changes my understanding of how the game is supposed to be played. I've never seen it payed that way (which doesn't mean it isn't supposed to be).

I always do it separately, in terms of firing squads, it's only stuff within squads, so you can't fire one weapon after the other to see what does what etc. It all has to be fired at the same time.

No, all shooting for a unit is simultaneous. If they're a single squadron you have to fire both at the same target. If they're separate squadrons you can do what you said.

Peregrine meant it as 'same squad' and not as 'all units in an army'

rigeld2 wrote:
No, all shooting for a unit is simultaneous. If they're a single squadron you have to fire both at the same target. If they're separate squadrons you can do what you said.

Ok, we're over that stuff, but would it work??

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Peregrine meant it as 'same squad' and not as 'all units in an army'

Alright then. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I've played games where it is that way (there's a "plot fire" step where you decide what everything in your army will shoot at) and I thought for a second that 40k was supposed to be played that way as well. You can ignore me then. in fact, I'm getting off Dakka for the day. I think I've exceeded my derpyness quotient for one day

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Not legal. All shooting is declared simultaneously and both tanks must fire on the same target, so the squad inside is not a legal target. You would have to destroy the transport and then kill the passengers next turn, if you can.

You learn something new every day. So by the official rules at the start of your shooting phase you are supposed to go all across your table saying "this squad shoots these weapons at that target, this squad shoots these weapons at that target..."and so on, then go back and roll all the dice afterwords? Does assault work the same way? Do you have to declare all your charges at the start of your assault phase as well? Movement?

If so that totally changes my understanding of how the game is supposed to be played. I've never seen it payed that way (which doesn't mean it isn't supposed to be).

No, it's done on a per unit basis, so all shots from the same unit are resolved simultaneously. It'd still work if you didn't squadron them.

 dementedwombat wrote:
So by the official rules at the start of your shooting phase you are supposed to go all across your table saying "this squad shoots these weapons at that target, this squad shoots these weapons at that target..."and so on, then go back and roll all the dice afterwords? Does assault work the same way? Do you have to declare all your charges at the start of your assault phase as well? Movement?

No, that's not it at all. All shooting for a single squad is declared simultaneously. So you can't, for example, use a squad's melta gun to destroy a transport and then use the bolters to shoot at the passengers. You have to declare all targets for the squad simultaneously (usually just one target, unless you have split fire of some kind) before rolling to hit.

;-; Not being horrible here, but can we please not turn my post into a conversation about squads shooting, there's been like, 10 comments and no answer :/

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Ok, we're over that stuff, but would it work??

Not really. You have a mediocre transport killer and an overpriced infantry killer. You'll do much better with a Vanquisher/Vendetta and a couple Griffons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
;-; Not being horrible here, but can we please not turn my post into a conversation about squads shooting, there's been like, 10 comments and no answer :/

I answered your question in the first post: it's a bad idea, even as separate units they're mediocre at best.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Ok, we're over that stuff, but would it work??

Not really. You have a mediocre transport killer and an overpriced infantry killer. You'll do much better with a Vanquisher/Vendetta and a couple Griffons.

Argh, but I don't have any of those :( If this is true, what roles could both of those tanks fulfil?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
If this is true, what roles could both of those tanks fulfil?

None. The Exterminator isn't really good at anything, and the Eradicator is only good against a very short list of targets (light infantry with 2+/3+ cover saves) that other units (Colossus, Hellhound) are better against.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
If this is true, what roles could both of those tanks fulfil?

None. The Exterminator isn't really good at anything, and the Eradicator is only good against a very short list of targets (light infantry with 2+/3+ cover saves) that other units (Colossus, Hellhound) are better against.

Ive used the exterminator several time now with a fair amount of success.Now I only have one Russ and usually only play in lower point games(1k -1500).I like to load it up with a bow LC,sponson Multimeltas and a pintol HS...ive tried plasma sponsons but my luck on "gets hot" is pretty sad..I lost 2 HP in one fight using them .Anyhow with this build ive taken out walkers and MC`s with little trouble,plus it gives me 10 shots of good average str going out against regualar infantry units
The biggest problem with it is when im taking on enemy AV13+ just a couple days ago I ended up dueling my opponents Battle cannon Russ and of course had problems but I did manage to keep his tank busy for several turns and this was after I KO`d his walker on turn one and messed up a tactical sqd on turn 2
I also run a Hellhound so yeah it does a great job on the softer targets in comparison.

Ive also ran the Eradicator with average success I would say..only a cpl games though and that was against Tua.Pretty much wasted a large unit of Kroot in one game and took out a full group of pathfinders in another.Then I was promptly wasted by the Farsight bomb to the rear armor crap /rolleyes

So yeah I cant speak to the more competative crowds oppinions as to how good these Russ builds are in Tourney play but in the casual pick up/fluff games I play they both seem to do fine.

I tried the exterminator with lascannon and MM and wasnt to pleased with it, nice for light armor and putting wounds on units but It didnt really do to much for me.

The eradictor with bolters all over has done a nice job in a couple games where I actually took out some units that were hiding in cover or ruins and knocked them off an objective. Other than that it just puts wounds on other units and seems kinda useless.

A new build Im trying is the Vanquisher with lascannon and plasma cannons, Vanq cannon and lascannon try to pop targets at a distance and once they guys that were inside get closer or other units get closer the plasma cannons start knocking them out. Gives the tank a little more flexibility and killing power if it went after teq or meq since all its weapons are ap2.

Well, equipped with a hull lascannon, an exterminator can be an okay transport killer. It wouldn't pair well with an eradicator, though.

This is because there are two kinds of units that can be transported in 40k - those for whom a vehicle explosion result will eviscerate the crew inside (making the eradicator unnecessary), and those for whom a vehicle explosion is a non-factor (likely because they have Sv3+ or better, which makes the eradicator pointless at Ap4).

The eradicator shines much brighter when shooting at infantry in cover, especially against those cheap scoring units that can easily get a 2+ cover save (scouts with camo cloaks, harkerstars, pathfinders, etc.). Put another way, it's best against foot lists where you have plenty of infantry hiding in cover to handle, not, for example, in a mech list, where you've got to wait for transports to be broken up and then hope to be useful.

If you want a combo that's going to be better against mech lists, go with a vanquisher and an executioner instead. The executioner is like an eradicator, but it gets Ap2, so is more likely to cause vehicle explosions, and the vanquisher is CERTAINLY more adept at accomplishing that feat than an eradicator (or, for that matter, an exterminator). Meanwhile, if your opponent brings heavier stuff in their transports that don't care about the odd explosion then (assuming you have lascannons on both tanks) you're getting to shoot 6 shots a turn that wound on 2's, and are Ap2, and if your opponent is silly enough to fail to displace, half of them are small blast weapons which might catch an extra model or two.

And with that, you are most effective against anything that can go in a transport, from guardsmen who you shred with vehicle explosions, and terminators who, once you blow up their land raider with your vanquisher+lascannons will rightly fear all of that powerful weaponry.

I would agree that the vanquisher and executioner would be much better.