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Can a sky ray use its networked marker lights to put markerlight hits on a flyer, and then shoot 2 of its missiles at the same flier?

Also, does a Skyray have to snap shoot its markerlights at ground targets?

Me and a friend are discussing how useful a skyray is and he says you can't shoot both the markerlight and the missiles because the Sky ray would then be shooting 4 HVY weapons.

Heavy has no bearing on vehicle shooting. All that matters is how far they move, and whether they fire Ordnance or not.

[Flyers have a second limitation - they may only fire 2 missiles, and only four weapons. Astationary non-flyer, or combat speed Fast non-flyer, can shoot ALL weapons)

1) Yes, as you are told to resolve Networked markerlights first
2) No, why do you think it should do? If it has skyfire and no interceptor then yes, it has to snapshoot.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Heavy has no bearing on vehicle shooting. All that matters is how far they move, and whether they fire Ordnance or not.

[Flyers have a second limitation - they may only fire 2 missiles, and only four weapons. Astationary non-flyer, or combat speed Fast non-flyer, can shoot ALL weapons)

1) Yes, as you are told to resolve Networked markerlights first
2) No, why do you think it should do? If it has skyfire and no interceptor then yes, it has to snapshoot.

The Sky ray has skyfire, but no interceptor though.

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Can a sky ray use its networked marker lights to put markerlight hits on a flyer, and then shoot 2 of its missiles at the same flier?

Yes, although the Skyray has Skyfire and Seeker Missiles can be fired like normal weapons now, so that's not the only option.

You could for example, spend a single markerlight to increase the Skyray's BS to 5, and then, assuming you did not move, fire any number of Seeker Missiles you want at BS5 at the flier (you will need LOS and won't get the benefit of the ignores cover rule as you do when you use the 1 markerlight to 1 missile method).

Also, does a Skyray have to snap shoot its markerlights at ground targets?

No, the Tau Velocity Tracker lets you choose each turn whether or not to have skyfire when making your shooting attacks, when firing at a ground target, simply choose not to have skyfire.

Me and a friend are discussing how useful a skyray is and he says you can't shoot both the markerlight and the missiles because the Sky ray would then be shooting 4 HVY weapons.

Missiles fired via markerlight don't count in terms of the number of weapons a skyray can fire, missiles fired without using a markerlight hit to launch them do.

The skyray is a very unusual beast of a machine and can be so overpowered on one hand but weaker on the other. Before I go into details let me get the rule sections out of the way.

First off the skyray does not have the skyfire rule, it has a unique piece of hardware that grants it the skyfire rule. This piece of equipment is found on page 69 of the tau codex and outlines exactly when you apply this rule. In short, though I recommend reading it, you can switch it off and on at will.

Second is the whole shooting four heavy weapons. I would recommend flicking open the basic rule book to page 71 and look at the Moving and Shooting with Vehicle section. The first bullet point shall show you how many weapons you can fire, max, for a ground base vehicle. In short, again, it is more then four.

Now the fun part that I want to point out, the thing that makes the skyray such an overpowered machine while also making it limited in the first place: Page 66 of the tau codex has the profile of the seeker missile. What you are looking for is not rules, but in this case the lack of a rule the old codex used to have. To make it easier, seeker missiles no longer require a marker light to fire. Do note, you lose all the benefits of 'target acquired' if you fire them independently.

Put those three together and you see why the skyray can do insane amounts of damage in a single turn with just a little bit of luck.

Yeah, as above, it's simple when you think about it, but at first glance can be a bit confusing.

So, Seekers now can be fired as normal weapons - in this case they are normal BS, count as one of your weapons, and don't have Ignores Cover. Alternatively, they can be fired in response to a marker, in which case they are BS5, Ignores Cover and DONT count as one of your weapons.

The Skyray always can choose to have Skyfire or not each turn, so always uses it's full BS. The only exception to this is NORMAL snap fire (i.e - because of moving, not because of firing at flyers).

Basically, it's now a pretty decent anti-air vehicle. It's amazing if it stays still, so try and keep it in cover. If you can't keep it in cover then you'll want to keep moving to get the Jink save. If you move, you end up with one full-BS and one Snap Fire Markerlight each turn, each of which could be used to fire BS5 seekers which Ignore Cover (and therefore Evade/Jink), and (if you're desparate) the option of snap firing all your other seekers/other weapon systems.

JinxDragon wrote:
The skyray is a very unusual beast of a machine and can be so overpowered on one hand but weaker on the other. Before I go into details let me get the rule sections out of the way.

First off the skyray does not have the skyfire rule, it has a unique piece of hardware that grants it the skyfire rule. This piece of equipment is found on page 69 of the tau codex and outlines exactly when you apply this rule. In short, though I recommend reading it, you can switch it off and on at will.

Second is the whole shooting four heavy weapons. I would recommend flicking open the basic rule book to page 71 and look at the Moving and Shooting with Vehicle section. The first bullet point shall show you how many weapons you can fire, max, for a ground base vehicle. In short, again, it is more then four.

Now the fun part that I want to point out, the thing that makes the skyray such an overpowered machine while also making it limited in the first place: Page 66 of the tau codex has the profile of the seeker missile. What you are looking for is not rules, but in this case the lack of a rule the old codex used to have. To make it easier, seeker missiles no longer require a marker light to fire. Do note, you lose all the benefits of 'target acquired' if you fire them independently.

Put those three together and you see why the skyray can do insane amounts of damage in a single turn with just a little bit of luck.

So what your saying is you can use the 2 networked markerlights to put two markers on a flying MC, bump the sky rays BS up to 5, and then launch all 6 Seeker Missiles at the MC if you want to? That's pretty insane.

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
So what your saying is you can use the 2 networked markerlights to put two markers on a flying MC, bump the sky rays BS up to 5, and then launch all 6 Seeker Missiles at the MC if you want to? That's pretty insane.

Only if you stay still, since you're firing 8 weapons, and you won't get Ignores Cover from those Seekers. And don't forget the SMS, since that is BS5 too!!

But your tank is then a bit rubbish for the rest of the game...

Drunk, I see what you might of meant to post but it isn't technically correct. Given that the original poster was showing confusion over vehicles and 'maximum number of shots' it is best we are a bit more precise on our meaning. I will make an assumption that you didn't mean max weapons as in 'max number fired' but max weapons as in 'max weapons fired at full ballistic skill.

A little more information will show why this is relevant:
It is only evoked on vehicles that have moved, and then simply to correct a 'timing' problem that occurs without it.

Moving vehicles can still fire up to 'everything they have' but they are no where near as accurate then if fired from a still position. For this reason they have a limited number of 'at full ballistic skill' shots granted to them should they move. Obviously one will want to shoot the best guns at full and everything else at snap shots. You are usually given the choice, so no problem there.

Only the seeker rule prevent you from making that choice!

The use of the word immediately is what cause the problem. The timing of events require you to spend the light before you roll any dice. The spending of the point forces you to immediately fire your missile. This means you can not chose to fire another weapon first, and hence lose the ability to fire any weapon at your full ballistic skill. To add more insult to the injury, if you had the choice and opted to shoot the seeker missiles last they will still function exactly the same as if they where shot first!

That rule is simply there to prevent the above described situation from occurring.

Sort of on the same note, as it saves making a new post. If i use the Markerlights from my other units, and fire the SMS using that markerlight. Doe the Missile hit the side of the tank that I am Marking. or does it still hit from the direction the missile came from.

It makes sense that if the marker light is shining on the rear armour then the Missile will hit the part that the markerlight is shinning on rather than the side it came from. Now wile this does make sense with it being an advanced Guided missile at this point. There is nothing to support it other than common sense. And as we all know Common sense and 40k rules are very different beasts

Ragnar, just imagine how I felt learning that little trick from the receiving end. I was still in the 'old rule' mentality where seekers required markers to be fired and for that reason I saw the skyray as nothing more then a quaint anti-air unit that wasn't a real threat unless you decided to give it a shot at your behind. Didn't even think what it could do to a flying monstrous creature at that point.

Lost a daemon prince on turn 2 because of that. The skyray didn't take him out, but it ensured his death. Enough hit to wound him down and ensure a grounding test, which I failed because of being Jinxed. After that he was on the ground and mopped up by a squad of fire warriors if I remember right.

Then it was explained to me and I started viewing the skyray with a lot more respect. Luckily for everyone non-Tau, it is a one shot wonder. That is the biggest tactical decision to look at with the vehicle now: Do you believe the enemy is bringing a single very powerful 'key stone' unit that you must make go away by turn 2 in order to collect his tears?

Cerbrus - it states under markerlight rules that if you use a markerlight to fire a seeker, the platform firing the seeker is the model firing it, from memory

So it hits the facing the skyray is in.

Sadly, cerbrus, it is exactly as you described in that common sense isn't applied here,

It makes sense for the seeker missile to hit the side it is begin guided towards but that isn't the case. As there is nothing that states 'resolved wound/hits from the unit firing the marker' we can not apply that concept. Technically, the unit firing the market light is no longer doing so by the time it takes for the marker generated to be spent. They resolved their shooting attack and it just happened to leave two 'tags' on the target that could be tapped down the track. It is even possible to add multiple markers from many different units just to cloud the issue even further. While I find it all simple, in theory it could become complex enough that you can't easily keep track of all the 'this hit there, no this one hit there' sort of situations.

This just leaves us with the already existing base rules: You resolve wounds/to hits as a standard shooting attack.

Personally I have some problems with the way wounds are assigned from a 'narrative' point of view, though recognize it is clean cut for ease of game play. For me it is blast templates that highlight this the most. It is very likely for a model to die from a blast template even though the explosion was no where near to him. Large enough unit or small enough number of hits, you could even end up in a situation where the people under the blast template don't even have to make saves for the fireball that just hit them.

 cerbrus2 wrote:
Sort of on the same note, as it saves making a new post. If i use the Markerlights from my other units, and fire the SMS using that markerlight. Doe the Missile hit the side of the tank that I am Marking. or does it still hit from the direction the missile came from.

It makes sense that if the marker light is shining on the rear armour then the Missile will hit the part that the markerlight is shinning on rather than the side it came from. Now wile this does make sense with it being an advanced Guided missile at this point. There is nothing to support it other than common sense. And as we all know Common sense and 40k rules are very different beasts

Yeah, since the seeker isn't actually fired until the Skyray fires (you don't 'call it in' when the Pathfinders fire) the 'firing model' is the Skyray for all purposes...

edit: nevermind, I misunderstood

So heres another question along the same lines...Any problem doing this:

My Skyray hasnt moved. I use a markerlight hit from a different unit (that is already on my target) to give my skyray BS 5. I then shoot both network markerlights first, hit with both rolling a 2+ for both. I then use those lights to ignore cover for the whole tank. That seems to be ok as written. Am I right?

Twitch

Yes.

40ktwitch wrote:
So heres another question along the same lines...Any problem doing this:

My Skyray hasnt moved. I use a markerlight hit from a different unit (that is already on my target) to give my skyray BS 5. I then shoot both network markerlights first, hit with both rolling a 2+ for both. I then use those lights to ignore cover for the whole tank. That seems to be ok as written. Am I right?

Twitch

That's really cool. We can basically kill almost anything at once if we shoot all our Seekers at once. Would gladly trade the 6 missiles to kill a DP, Rtide, Flyrant, and maybe even a Wraithknight. Granted would need a lot of luck for the WKnight

Oh, and a nice side is that you still have BS 5 on the missiles as well as the rest of the shots. It doesn't just go away because you resolved one lot of shooting, after all, but is persistent till all the shots are resolved. All you ever need to do is get three marker lights on a target, and of course have a skyray, and then macros them with warheads designed to sink battleships. That grants you most of the befits of 'seeker,' all the important ones for sure, while still being able to shoot all six missiles and the pods.

Remember, a good Tau player always brings a teacup to catch their opponents tears.

JinxDragon wrote:
Remember, a good Tau player always brings a teacup to catch their opponents tears.

Lookout, everyone! The Tau have been infiltrated by the Dark Eldar!

Tau use a teacup. Eldar bring a pint glass.

*Just laughs! *

Hey, I think you have explained why we are battle brothers.