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Simple question, who actually knows the existence of the duel Primarch's? Obviously beyond their Legion and The Emperor.

I don't think the Emperor knew, if he he did, he never mentioned it. The Cabal knew though.

Surely the other Primarchs when they were all bro fisting at the Emperors school for the gifted?

It being (one of) their best guarded secret, none of the other Primarchs knew, if the Emperor knew he didn't show any indication of knowing. The only ones who are blatantly shown to know are the Alpha Legion including a number of human operatives and the Cabal.

They were smaller than the other Primarchs weren't they? Half as strong, half as tough and half as clever?

Mellow wrote:
They were smaller than the other Primarchs weren't they? Half as strong, half as tough and half as clever?

They were on the small side (for primarchs) but nothing to indicate radically so (they were still easily a head and then some taller than your average space marine). As for the half as strong, etc. Never heard anything of that nature nor read anything to indicate that.

Mellow wrote:
They were smaller than the other Primarchs weren't they? Half as strong, half as tough and half as clever?

Almost..... They were probably 10 times more clever than some of the other Primarchs, ie Angron.

Lucarikx

Yeah, they were smaller than the other Primarchs, to the extent that larger Marines could convincingly pass themselves off as them.

They are about a head taller than the average Marine.

Compare this with Perturabo, who is a head taller than a truly massive Marine, while said Marine is wearing Terminator Armour. Lion El'Jonson, outside of armour, is a little above three meters tall (Ten feet) in Descent of Angels. Magnus the Red, said to be a giant even among the Primarchs, stood five meters tall (About 16.5 feet) according to Battle of the Fang. Alpharius and Omegon by that would be a little bit shorter than Lion El'Jonson, and absolutely dwarfed by Magnus the Red. I'd estimate them to be, oh, eight to nine feet tall.

Also, yeah, the other Primarchs did not know that there were two Alpha Legion Primarchs.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I don't think the Emperor knew, if he he did, he never mentioned it.

How could he not know, he made them?

Do you believe Sanguinius was intended to have angel wings?

Mutations occurred after being whisked away into the Warp.

Though IIRC the Emperor did know of Omegon.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Do you believe Sanguinius was intended to have angel wings?

Mutations occurred after being whisked away into the Warp.

Though IIRC the Emperor did know of Omegon.

Dividing in two is pretty damn radical mutation...

 Crimson wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I don't think the Emperor knew, if he he did, he never mentioned it.

How could he not know, he made them?

He made the Primarch fetuses, the Warp mutated them. He didn't know Magnus would be massive and red, or that Sanguinius would have wings, or that Perturabo would be able to see the EoT at all times. Random mutation occurred in the Warp.

 Crimson wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
I don't think the Emperor knew, if he he did, he never mentioned it.

How could he not know, he made them?

happens all the time in nature with identical twins. It might not have needed mutation in the Chaotic sense. But an unexpected cell division.

The old IA describes the AL as being tall and strong. We do have the possibility that Alphy and omegon being able to 'hide' within their ranks not because they were significantly taller, but because their Legion was a bit taller than the average. Or a combination of the 2?

I think some of you guys are wrong on that score. .the emperor didn't put a primarch fetus into women. He actually made them and stuck them in little mechanical crib things that got whisked away right?

So he MADE twenty. He didn't make 19..that is stated numerous times, so he had to know.

Maybe they didn't want their brothers to know so he told nobody. ..but the big guy musy have known the truth.

 mattyrm wrote:
I think some of you guys are wrong on that score. .the emperor didn't put a primarch fetus into women. He actually made them and stuck them in little mechanical crib things that got whisked away right?

So he MADE twenty. He didn't make 19..that is stated numerous times, so he had to know.

There were 21 primachs, so it is posible he didn't know.

Armadeus wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
I think some of you guys are wrong on that score. .the emperor didn't put a primarch fetus into women. He actually made them and stuck them in little mechanical crib things that got whisked away right?

So he MADE twenty. He didn't make 19..that is stated numerous times, so he had to know.

There were 21 primachs, so it is posible he didn't know.

Right!

Matty's math was just a bit off...

Well bugger me.. I didn't know there were twenty one.

But they did get made in.. machines of some kind right? And they got "whisked" away by the dark gods, so how could he possibly not have known?

Its not like he knocked 21 women up, and then just fethed off! There could be plenty have twins or quints or something.. he stuck them in little pod things, and they all crashed on different planets right?

Is Omegon treated as the 21st though? Don't the Cabal say something about the Alpha Legion primarchs being one soul in two bodies?

Could be why the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon, as he can only detect the combined singular soul.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Is Omegon treated as the 21st though? Don't the Cabal say something about the Alpha Legion primarchs being one soul in two bodies?

Could be why the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon, as he can only detect the combined singular soul.

Wasn't that the description given to John Grammaticus by an Eldar? The Eldar do seem to put a more heavily spiritual binding between twins than humans do. I interpret that description as a terminology the Eldar use instead of 2 actual souls.

It's also worth noting that according to the IA Alpharius was not found by the Emperor. He found them, can the Emperor even detect them? Otherwise they would have been found much earlier.

Also just because the Emperor created 20 Primarchs only proves that Omegon wasn't intentional, and what ever happened to them to cause the mutatio. Occurred after the warp 'took' them.

I would theorise the Primarchs were created in numerical order, and thus in varying states of maturation. Thus Alpharius was taken with early in his gestation, allowing omegon to develop without knowledge.

Of course the Emperor may have known but didn't mention it. Why that might be... Who knows.

Of course the Emperor knew, he knew everything and was completely infallible!

... oh

It's such a secret that nobody but the author of that book and a few dozen readers know it. I mean, Phil Kelly didn't even know apparently when he wrote the CSM codex.

That or it's such a terrible piece of fluff that some of the GW staff are trying to un-write it.

 Eetion wrote:


Wasn't that the description given to John Grammaticus by an Eldar? The Eldar do seem to put a more heavily spiritual binding between twins than humans do. I interpret that description as a terminology the Eldar use instead of 2 actual souls.

It's also worth noting that according to the IA Alpharius was not found by the Emperor. He found them, can the Emperor even detect them? Otherwise they would have been found much earlier.

Also just because the Emperor created 20 Primarchs only proves that Omegon wasn't intentional, and what ever happened to them to cause the mutatio. Occurred after the warp 'took' them.

I would theorise the Primarchs were created in numerical order, and thus in varying states of maturation. Thus Alpharius was taken with early in his gestation, allowing omegon to develop without knowledge.

Of course the Emperor may have known but didn't mention it. Why that might be... Who knows.

I am pretty sure it it's the Eldar that states to Apharius the one soul to bodies thing when the Alpha Legion ambush the Cabal.

Horus found Alpharius, well, Alpharius found Horus and tried to kill him but hey.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Eetion wrote:


Wasn't that the description given to John Grammaticus by an Eldar? The Eldar do seem to put a more heavily spiritual binding between twins than humans do. I interpret that description as a terminology the Eldar use instead of 2 actual souls.

It's also worth noting that according to the IA Alpharius was not found by the Emperor. He found them, can the Emperor even detect them? Otherwise they would have been found much earlier.

Also just because the Emperor created 20 Primarchs only proves that Omegon wasn't intentional, and what ever happened to them to cause the mutatio. Occurred after the warp 'took' them.

I would theorise the Primarchs were created in numerical order, and thus in varying states of maturation. Thus Alpharius was taken with early in his gestation, allowing omegon to develop without knowledge.

Of course the Emperor may have known but didn't mention it. Why that might be... Who knows.

I am pretty sure it it's the Eldar that states to Apharius the one soul to bodies thing when the Alpha Legion ambush the Cabal.

Horus found Alpharius, well, Alpharius found Horus and tried to kill him but hey.

Maybe?

That's old fluff, when Alpharius was as tall as Horus, and all of his Legion was as well...

 Alpharius wrote:


Maybe?

That's old fluff, when Alpharius was as tall as Horus, and all of his Legion was as well...

It says that he was taller than the Luna Wolves by a foot and that he looked almost a match for Horus and I don't think who found him has changed.

Some of the Alphas were like their Primarch as a few of them were able to be the Primarch, Sheed and Hertzog for example.

So despite it being old it's still kinda similar, but yeah point taken.

The point that I'm saying might have been changed is the whole "Tried to kill him" thing.

I think we already know they've shrunk the Primarchs a bit, for some odd reason.