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Here's the story. Back in the pre-Newcrons rumour days, there were some titbits regarding a MC that looked like a giant Necron with a crystal suspended inside his chest. Not much other information was shed. Well perhaps except for "IT has Wraithlord feel all around it".

I was rather disappointed to learn that such an awesome idea never seen the daylight. So, I convinced a sculptor friend of mine to attempt creating one such Necromancer for my personal use, from scratch. Below you can see a 3rd draft of concept art. It will most likely change a bit in the sculpting phase which has now begun.



This is a rule proposal thread, so main reason I'm posting this is to share an idea with you:

NECROMANCER........................................................................175 POINTS

Necromancer: WS 4, BS 4, S 7, T 7, W 3, I 2, A 3, Ld 10, Sv 3+

Unit composition:
• 1 Necromancer

Unit type:
• Monstrous Creature

Special Rules:
• Fearless
• Feel No Pain
• Ever-Living
• Resurrection Protocols
• Vessel of Resurrection

Wargear:
• C'tan Phaseblade
• Particle Prism

Options:
• Necromancer may take any of the following upgrades:
- Watchful Gaze......................................+10 points
- Reconstruction Scarabs.......................+15 points
- Gloom Prism..........................................+15 points
- Sempiternal Weave...............................+35 points

Vessel of Resurrection:
Necron units (including Necromancer himself) with at least one model within 12" from Necromancer count as being under the effect of Resurrection Orb for the purposes of Reanimation Protocols rolls.

Particle Prism:
Necromancer's ribcage houses a dreadful energy source. While Monoliths are able to discharge it's energy in form of Particle Whip, the Necromancer's crystal matrix is a far more versatile device. The powerful Particle Prism allows it to discharge these baleful energies in a variety of forms. Choose one of the following modes each time the Particle Prism is fired:

• Focused Beam - 36", S 9, AP 2, Type: Heavy 1
• Spheric Discharge - 24", S 7, AP 4, Type: Heavy 1, Large Blast
• Dispersed Flare - Template, S 5, AP 4, Type: Heavy 1, Shred

C'tan Phaseblade:
C'tan Phaseblade is a rare weapon, ancient beyond imagining. It's cutting age was crafted from the Necrodermis of a shattered C'tan. It has the following profile:

Range -, S +1, AP 1, Type: Melee, Disintegration

Disintegration - invulnerable saves taken against wounds caused by C'tan Phaseblade receive -1 penalty to the roll.

Watchful Gaze:
Necromancer equipped with Watchful Gaze counts as being equipped with Gaze of Flame (see Codex: Necrons pg. 84) and Searchlight (see Warhammer 40.000 Rulebook)

Reconstruction Scarabs:
Necromancer equipped with Reconstruction Scarabs gains It Will Not Die special rule (see Warhammer 40.000 Rulebook).

Necromancer is a HQ choice for Codex: Necron army and is treated as though it was chosen from that codex. It cannot be nominated as Warlord and hence it cannot ever be a mandatory HQ choice.

This are experimental rules, version: 2.0

The main idea behind this unit was an utility construct that slowly advances along with Necron Warrior phalanxes and Immortals bestowing improved reanimation protocols upon them. This is not another Canoptek construct - this is Necron take on Contemptor Dreadnaught idea - a living conciousness of a broken and scarred Necron Lord placed in a massive body that better suits his new purpose - overseeing the advancement of legions he was once commanding personally.

The C'tan Phaseblade is a nod towards 3rd Ed Warscythe & 3rd Ed C'tan Phase Sword of Callidus Assasin that used to negate both armor and invulnerable saves. I think that bypassing Inv altogether is a bit harsh and I'm glad it doesn't happen often in 6th Ed. But, as I wanted to have something flavourful on this weapon I came up with the -1 Inv Save rule. I think it's cool and not too OP. Suddenly squads of 3++ Termies might feel a bit more crunchy than before


So, what do You guys think? I will be posting WIP pics as soon as we have anything sculpted. Bear in mind this is a hastily sketched concept art and the final model's proportions shouldn't be off
As for rules, feel free to discuss and propose changes - I'll gladly take them into consideration.

It is way too cheap. For the buffs if gives and for the rules it has, 165 is nothing. A standard loadout Flyrant is 280-300 points, and that would struggle to do anything to this guy without rolling Iron Arm.

10pts for IWND? At least 20pts Id say. More like 25-30. Other people have to roll on Psychic Tables for this.

Remove 'Subliminal Interception', thats very over powered in an already powerful unit. There are only a few way to kill this thing, and a big MC is one of them. Making it essentially take a wound by default just for getting into reliable assault range is broken.

Remove Armourbane from the swords rules. Its already S8 AP1, and has Disintegration which is very powerful on its own.

I cant recall what 'Gaze of Flame' is, can you remind me?

Vessel of Ressurection is very powerful as well, especially as many units will have a ResiOrb lord with them already. 3+ RP? Feth off! Make it able to bestow a 4+ RP to models, not units, within 6".

Id put it at 200 points base at least. This thing is a very powerful CC MC and has a bloody Particle Whip to boot!

- Statline is based on Wraithlord and hence the cost baseline.
- I made mistake, it should be 15 for IWND (that's the cost for giving this to Necron units in IA:12)
- I am still considering tweaks to interception / perhaps point increase. Bear in mind it doesn't happen when you charge so as long as you don't move into 6" - you're safe. (still field testing this, might drop if too powerful)
- Armourbane is what you get on normal Warscythe for 10pts and that's only 1S lower than this guy so it's not a biggie.
- Gaze of Flame is simply defensive grenades. Again made mistake it should be 10 as in codex.
- I am considering changing +1RP rolls to "Count as having Resurrection Orb" so it would grant 4+ and no more and it would remove the need of having Orb Lord in unit (that's the true benefit).

Hey Dex,

Generaly I think you should focus on one of the two paths the offense or the defense. Personally, the Necromancer, feels like a construct that can withstand enormous amounts of punishment while supporting the advancing legions.
- having a bit of experience with the tomb stalker i'd consider either a 2+ save or some form of inv, ofc with a price increase. There are just too many weapons out there which chew through AS 3+. (fe. the new shuriken weapons :/ although 2+ AS wont help much with that)
- the -1 to Inv on the weapon is just wrong, i know it feels a lot like the previous book, but at the moment the GW game designers go for the inv being truly 'invulnerable'.
- i'd drop the Subliminal Interception, maybe replace it with lightnig field?
- i think i would replace the particle whip with the particle shredder, since the power source is smaller than the monoliths, maybe add an option to replace with the heat ray from the triarch stalker? also maybe a second weapon, something smaller?

Cheers,
Mike

 Herr Dexter wrote:
- Statline is based on Wraithlord and hence the cost baseline.
- I made mistake, it should be 15 for IWND (that's the cost for giving this to Necron units in IA:12)
- I am still considering tweaks to interception / perhaps point increase. Bear in mind it doesn't happen when you charge so as long as you don't move into 6" - you're safe. (still field testing this, might drop if too powerful)
- Armourbane is what you get on normal Warscythe for 10pts and that's only 1S lower than this guy so it's not a biggie.
- Gaze of Flame is simply defensive grenades. Again made mistake it should be 10 as in codex.
- I am considering changing +1RP rolls to "Count as having Resurrection Orb" so it would grant 4+ and no more and it would remove the need of having Orb Lord in unit (that's the true benefit).

This is a bigger and better unit that a Wraithlord. It needs a price to reflect all its buffs. 200 points is about right. Then upgrades.

Interception is still too powerful. And giving a unit this powerful in CC defensive grenades is very powerful. Make them a bit costlier than the standard for Codex Crons. 20pts (includes Searchlight).

20 points for IWND (Regeneration on nids is 15-25 points, and thats a 6+, not 5+)

Armourbane on Warscythes models is ok, because they are easier to take down than this monstrosity. But ok, I guess it is meant to be big and scary.

Counting it as having a ResiOrb is better. Allow it to bestow is Resi to one unit within 12", but that this can be selected at the start of your movement phase, lasts until your next movement phase, and can be changed in your subsequent movement phases. It lasts even if the unit moves more than 12" away from the Necromancer in the movement phase.

After a talk with local community some changes are bound to take place, I'll re-write the rules soon

- Interception is definitely dropping for now
- Armour Bane is dropping from weapon
- Costs for Gaze and IWND reflect general tendency in official Necron rules, there is no point in making these exceptionally expensive (especially since Slaanesh constructs from FW commonly have option to get BOTH assault and defensive grenades for 15pts )
- Main change is going to be T reduction to 7 in favor of getting FnP and Ever-Living / Resurrection Protocols (this will better reflect overall Necron style and tendency).
- Base cost up to 175
- Particle Whips changed to lesser yet more versatile version
- gains options for 2+ Sv and Gloom Prism

Remove option for 2+, T8 2+ is far too tough.

In addition, the +1 to all RPC is wayyy too much. Imagine combining it with a Necron pylon for 2+ RPC. 215 pts IMO.

 Herr Dexter wrote:
After a talk with local community some changes are bound to take place, I'll re-write the rules soon

- Interception is definitely dropping for now
- Armour Bane is dropping from weapon
- Costs for Gaze and IWND reflect general tendency in official Necron rules, there is no point in making these exceptionally expensive (especially since Slaanesh constructs from FW commonly have option to get BOTH assault and defensive grenades for 15pts )
- Main change is going to be T reduction to 7 in favor of getting FnP and Ever-Living / Resurrection Protocols (this will better reflect overall Necron style and tendency).
- Base cost up to 175
- Particle Whips changed to lesser yet more versatile version
- gains options for 2+ Sv and Gloom Prism

-Good call. A
-Leave Armourbane. Its not too bad on a unit that is big and slow. Its a vehicles own fault if it gets caught.
-Ok I see your point, but this is not in the official Necron rules, so it has to be considered separately. Give it Assault Grenades, but not Defensive ones. Say its Gaze ability burns through cover in the way, and is a spotlight when used at lower intensity. Keep Gaze 15pts in this case. Leave out IWND for my suggestions on profiles and saves, detailed below.
-NO. FNP AND RP!? Do you seriously think that works on a creature this tough? Only true Necrons have RP. A creature this size would have to be Canoptek. There are no actual Necrons this big! Hence, no EL/RP for it. Its bad enough to let to have a ResiOrb for its mates. And FNP should be expensive on something this big and tough, with that much offensive power. Id say 20pts at least.
No 2+. If its going to get a 2+, make it T6. That brings it in line with things like the Riptide and the Tyranofex. Higher than that and its too broken.
Make it either T7/8 (not sure which) with a 3+ and a 5++ to stop it being mulched by things like LongFangs (lots of other MC's have to deal with this but you seem to hate the idea of any slight vulnerability so why the hell not?) OR make it T6 with a 2+ and the option to buy a 5++ for say 15pts.
-Good call on the Whip.


So with my suggestions the Necromancer would be:

200 points base

Either:
T7 with a 3+ and a 5++
T6 with a 2+ (add 5++ for 15pts)

Get Scarabs (FnP) for 20pts
Get Gaze (assault grenades and searchlight) for 15pts

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Remove option for 2+, T8 2+ is far too tough.

In addition, the +1 to all RPC is wayyy too much. Imagine combining it with a Necron pylon for 2+ RPC. 215 pts IMO.

The talk about 2+ was when considering T7. Pylon alone doesn't improve RP. Pylon formation does. And we're talking about a Apocalypse formation worth 1600pts.
Apart from that, just in case I think setting it 4+ fixed RP roll is better than "+1" as in this case Necromancer is ment to be alternative to having Orb Lord in every unit.


Honestly, HerbaciousT, we need to look on similar models Necrons have access too as well as other armies. 205 pts is Tomb Stalker that has 4 Wounds, ton of attacks and plethora of special CC / movement rules.
Riptide that has 2+ also has access to FnP and has... FIVE wounds. Confront this with our little Necromancer who has only 3W. And basic 3+ Save. Now you want that without FnP nor RP and also call it 200pts? Where is the logic.
I play a lot with FW creations, most of my blokes have stuff like Decimators, Contemptors and annoying IG Artillery that shoots planes like ducks. Once I'm done tweaking this puppy he'll be well in line with other toys of that sort
And, just so we're clrear - I do value your input into this discussion (which I'm also having with bunch of people who, for some reason, don't want to be on Dakka...)

It is ludicrously cheap for what it is. A S8 T8 3+sv MC for 165pts, that can raise nearby necrons, and is armed with a particle whip and an absurdly powerful CC weapon? Wut?

I don't like the idea of the C'tan phaseblade at all. No number of points can justify its effect. Fluff wise it's a bit silly as well; why would they use a C'tan's necrodermis to make a weapon?

Drop disintegration, drop the scarabs, reduce it to T6 S6 (It should not be tougher and stronger than a C'tan!) and drop the interception. Increase the wounds to 5; it is much bigger than a spyder, after all.
Increase points cost to 200 as well.

Ok then give it 4 or 5 wounds. Make it a bit more of a sponge.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:It is ludicrously cheap for what it is. A S8 T8 3+sv MC for 165pts, that can raise nearby necrons, and is armed with a particle whip and an absurdly powerful CC weapon? Wut?

Base cost for S10 T8 Sv3+ was 90pts points in Codex: Eldar. Not sure how it is now, I doubt if it's much more expensive. I agree weapons are a tougher cookie, but all things considered - this isn't far more deadly than what Wraithlord could pack.
I am already nerfing Whip as it's Ordnance is a clutch here. But that Phaseblade is far from being OP. One that Wraithlord has goes with base S10 and re-roll failed rolls to-hit. You can have that at about 130pts if I remember correctly.
Some nerfs are coming as I agree with some things you guys point out, however - jumping to Supernerf and 200pts outright is totally unjustified.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I don't like the idea of the C'tan phaseblade at all. No number of points can justify its effect. Fluff wise it's a bit silly as well; why would they use a C'tan's necrodermis to make a weapon?

Well, that is established fluff in both Necron and Inquisition related works. I am not making this up. Only my version is far less powerfull than what this weapon used to do...
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C%27tan_phase_weapon

HerbaciousT wrote:Ok then give it 4 or 5 wounds. Make it a bit more of a sponge.

You see, I wanted to stray away from that design. It feels clunky. We already have MCs with so many wounds it's about to border definition of Gargantuan Creature from Apocalypse. Bloody Wraithknight is a T8 W6 monstrosity.
You look at it and than think of Tyranid units for Apocalypse that are exactly in that stat range only 3 times as point expensive and restricted to Apocalypse...

An MC really needs more than 3 wounds. I admit I missed that before. In that case I feel 175 points is acceptable. Though Id push it to 4 wounds mate.

 HerbaciousT wrote:
An MC really needs more than 3 wounds. I admit I missed that before. In that case I feel 175 points is acceptable. Though Id push it to 4 wounds mate.

Good Now consider this - let's say it has 3 wounds and Resurrection Protocols / Ever-living. That essentially means it has 50% chance to get 4th wound IF he get's up. It's a 50-50 chance.
To my experience with rolling such roll for Necron Lords - to have any model "raise up" 2 or 3 times is VERY unlikely. It will get up once like every 2 games with some luck. Rarely might do a heroic stand and come back twice. That's 5W and you have to be lucky.

That's why I think 3W and RP is far more Necron-like than 4W.
I was also convinced to make it T7 with FnP. It will be easier to take down with focussed fire but resiliant to "single-shot-wonders" as all Necron specials are.
In that version it will get along with 175pts baseline cost better.

Updated rules soon to follow.

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by the C'tan phaseblade. I thought it came directly from a C'tan, as in, they summoned one into a necrodermis and then made it blow up to get the metal. Which is a silly thing to do.

Yes, the particle whip needs to be changed. I was thinking a deathray may be more suitable. It may be S10 AP1, but it does have a limited kill zone.

T7 and Fnp sounds fine to me as well.

OK - I've updated the rules, go see They are now version 2.0 beta

Apart from changes we discussed I decided to lower it's S to 7 and give Phaseblade +1S.
This way the stat line looks more consistent, weapon looks more powerful and it's also a small nerf to help justify point costs - it's Hammer of Wrath now hits with S7 not 8 so can't insta-kill T4 models

I've also decided to suggest it as HQ slot. Here's a tricky part however - it cannot be warlord and cannot be mandatory HQ, much like SM Democles command vehicle.
The idea behind this will be rooted in fluff im writing. It also prevents spamming this unit and makes it more unique, 1 per army choice. I'm not a fan of 0-1 codex entries and prefer this approach here.
I also didn't wanted to put such an unique creature to compete with other choices within overcrowded Heavy Support and Elite slots.

This is also a nerf in a way that justifies it's RP enhancing ability - taking 1 HQ choice means 1 less Oberlord and one less Royal Court in the army.

S7 and T7 is a lot better, and I like the particle prism.

The phase sword is still a bit iffy, but at least its a tad more balanced; no point in giving an S8 MC armorbane after all.

Glad you like it.
Funny how I started with Wraithlord and ended up with a big Necron Lord

Well, it makes sense from a naming standpoint.

Necromancers are usually the leaders of an undead army

so another type of Necron lord with a nasty close combat weapon and a resurrection power? really?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
so another type of Necron lord with a nasty close combat weapon and a resurrection power? really?

Right, because Wraithknight and Riptide are pinnacles of ingenuity and not just bigger versions of existing units?

I wanted a large Necron MC based on old rumours and "Bone Giant" concept and here it is

 Herr Dexter wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
so another type of Necron lord with a nasty close combat weapon and a resurrection power? really?

Right, because Wraithknight and Riptide are pinnacles of ingenuity and not just bigger versions of existing units?

I wanted a large Necron MC based on old rumours and "Bone Giant" concept and here it is

The changes youve made make it a lot more balanced. But I still think that having both IWND and FnP is over powered. I think you need to take out IWND and leave it with FnP. Give it Reconstruction Scarabs by default, and have them as conferring the FnP rule. It already has RP and EL too.