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 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I can't wait to hear the endless whining of players who WANT to play marines but can't because they're trying to enforce the 5:1 ratio of Orks:Marines.

Why not allow the players to play as nobz instead of boyz aren't nobz supposed to be similar in power level to a space marine?

Only players who pay will be able to play nobz. F2P players will be stuck as Boyz.

Are you saying you have a problem with that?

I'm personally of the opinion that it's a smart way to get people into the game and then subsequently paying for the game, which is kind of the point is it not?

 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I can't wait to hear the endless whining of players who WANT to play marines but can't because they're trying to enforce the 5:1 ratio of Orks:Marines.

Why not allow the players to play as nobz instead of boyz aren't nobz supposed to be similar in power level to a space marine?

Only players who pay will be able to play nobz. F2P players will be stuck as Boyz.

It's neat, but like the most horrid way one can do a F2P model. Like literally the worst way.

BrotherVord wrote:

Are you saying you have a problem with that?

I'm personally of the opinion that it's a smart way to get people into the game and then subsequently paying for the game, which is kind of the point is it not?

Free to play , not pay to win. If you don't buy the "superior" classes (Nobz, Spess Murheens) don't expect to make any progress against those who do. They will be stronger than you, faster than you and have more powerful weapons than you.

Doesn't matter how skilled you are if you can be one shot by any one of a thousand armor clad genetic freaks running around.

Does that sound fun?

It sounds fine to me, to be honest. I don't mind players having to put something into a game financially in order to get the full experience. We have come to this place where we as gamers feel like we are entitled to a free experience somehow. The developers and publishers need to make money, they can't do that if every free ork toon is just as good as every space marine...if that were the case then nobody would have incentive to pay to be anything more than one of the boyz. This system gives incentive to try the game, see the systems in place, and choose to buy in if you want. I like that system.

If you have to pay to buy extra stuff in order to have a chance to compete then the game is not free.

They should just put all the factions in then sell the game to make money that way.

why not just make the game like planetside 2 (in terms of how the F2P is set up)

But at the same time have NPC's that play as Guard, Orkz, Cultists, Guardians, etc.

I think they could make a tidy sum of money just from selling skins and that is the model they should look into.

AWesker1976 wrote:
If you have to pay to buy extra stuff in order to have a chance to compete then the game is not free.

They should just put all the factions in then sell the game to make money that way.

Guild Wars 2 has proven the viability of a one purchase model as a money-maker.

Also, people are reading what it says wrong, from what I can see.

It is not that an Ork pays money and becomes a Nob, they have to pay money to even potentially become a Nob (The classes above officer, apparently). So, even the p2p players who start as Orks' first experience in-game will be getting slaughtered at a 5:1 ratio by the Marine players. Which isn't actually fun.

I've played as an underpowered class before balance tweaks at the start of an MMO's life, and it eventually makes even bothering to play a drag. I eventually said feth it and stopped. The difference is that the imbalance, rather than being the result of an open beta without finalized balancing, is an explicit feature in this game, apparently.

I think their are ways to make playing as an boy fun and viable even if it takes 5 of you to down one SM.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

AWesker1976 wrote:
If you have to pay to buy extra stuff in order to have a chance to compete then the game is not free.

They should just put all the factions in then sell the game to make money that way.

Guild Wars 2 has proven the viability of a one purchase model as a money-maker.

Indeed. They're also still making money because people can purchase various items with real-game money, mostly cosmetics, character slots, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:
I think their are ways to make playing as an boy fun and viable even if it takes 5 of you to down one SM.

Not when you're invariably going to be outnumbered by the Space Marines you have to outnumber to win against.

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
I think their are ways to make playing as an boy fun and viable even if it takes 5 of you to down one SM.

Not when you're invariably going to be outnumbered by the Space Marines you have to outnumber to win against.

It depend on exactly how things work out. If you give every class a spawn cost then you can balance things out better. If it takes you 5 times the money to spawn a SM then a boy, then that makes things more even form a point perspective. You can also give boys powers bases around the fact that they die a lot. Like give them the ability to re spawn anywhere their are 5 or more orks and do it instantly. Meanwhile a SM might need to re spawn all the way back at a base or in an APC.

Basically I say balance it all by points. You can boy, nob, or warboss depending on how many points you spend. Same with the SM scout MS or captain. all depending on how much you spend.

Spawn costs?

You might have lost me.

Like, your character is set in stone depending on how far you have progressed, you don't spend points every battle to afford better and kewler units.

This is not PlanetSide 2, which is the impression I think you might have. It is similar in that it is PVP based and focused on big battlefields, but that is where the comparison ends, from what I've seen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Indeed. They're also still making money because people can purchase various items with real-game money, mostly cosmetics, character slots, etc.

Yeah, skins alone are pretty cheap to render and can net a good profit.

I could see people paying to customize their special snowflake some more. Like, your base Ork is a fairly generic Ork in aesthetic, but you can buy totems and icons that belong to a certain clan, or whatever. Maybe you could have the appearance of a manly freeboota with a manly pirate hat.

Space Marines, random bling of war, customizing your armour's mark, stuff like that.

Not sure how that would work on Eldar since I am less knowledgeable of their fluff, but I am sure something could work.

Well if your going to make everything persistent, then start SMs as scouts and that will make things more balanced with orks starting as boys. Though I was hoping for a more dust like system myself because of reasons.

Also Everyone in 40k has the bling of war. Everyone! It's part of why it makes such a good mini game. Every one has a reason to bling out their models and if they didn't then the fans made one up.

nomotog wrote:
Well if your going to make everything persistent, then start SMs as scouts and that will make things more balanced with orks starting as boys. Though I was hoping for a more dust like system myself because of reasons.

Also Everyone in 40k has the bling of war. Everyone! It's part of why it makes such a good mini game. Every one has a reason to bling out their models and if they didn't then the fans made one up.

According to the Imperial Munitorium Manual, Atricle 5633/64b:

Any soldier (ie - guardsman) who displays about his person or uniform, unauthorized decals, tattoos, trophies taken from the field of battle or other spoils of war without prior permission in writing of his superior officer, will have the offending items stripped from him and then be flogged.

nomotog wrote:
If it takes you 5 times the money to spawn a SM then a boy

That won't matter if there's ten times as many people playing them.

This is sounding pretty dumb. I guess they could do something slightly less dumb and just have marines as npcs. But it's far easier to just realise how stupid trying to enforce population ratios like this is.

Cause honestly it's sounding like WH40k Online: Marine Fanwank Edition.

BrotherVord wrote:
It sounds fine to me, to be honest. I don't mind players having to put something into a game financially in order to get the full experience.

Like buying the game?

BrotherVord wrote:
We have come to this place where we as gamers feel like we are entitled to a free experience somehow.

I've already bought the game, why should I pay more?

BrotherVord wrote:
The developers and publishers need to make money

Just buying the game isn't enough anymore?

BrotherVord wrote:
they can't do that if every free ork toon is just as good as every space marine...if that were the case then nobody would have incentive to pay to be anything more than one of the boyz. This system gives incentive to try the game, see the systems in place, and choose to buy in if you want. I like that system.

But I've already bought the game!

---

I find a bit of a problem with your argument, I've outlined my issues with it above.
I do have a closing question though;

What's wrong with the only costs involved being the purchase of the Game itself?

Idky everyone is so scared of SM overpopulation, this game isn't just meant to sell to just our community... it's for everyone, meaning that those who are unfamiliar to the franchise may or may not add to the ranks of raging fanbois....

The simplest solution to balancing the game would be to just have it be a big game of rock paper scissors.. SMs can usually beat Orks, are equal to CSM, but struggle against the Eldar, CSMs can usually beat the Eldar, are equal to the SMs but struggle against the Orks. The Orks are equal to the Eldar, beat the CSMs, but struggle against the SMs. Finally the Eldar beat the SM's, struggle against CSM, and are about equal to the Orks.

This isn't exactly new: Warlocks in Wow seemed incredibly powerful, but warriors could crush their faces in, who were in turn obliterated by Mages, who were in turn backstabbed by Rogues, who were pummeled by Shamans, Paladins, and Druids, who were then gunned down by Hunters, out-survived by Priests, who in turn were melted by Warlocks....

Being an excellent player or bringing an excellent game that day can change your odds, as does coordination of your team.. the better coordinated you are with your faction, the higher percentage you have of winning. Much like the Horde was when I initially played WoW, I suspect that the majority of the greatest populated faction will be lousy players who are disorganized and simply horde up against pocketed resistance. Though strongest when simply driving forward, our flanks and rear were very vulnerable and astute alliance commanders knew when to hit us hard and kill the majority of a disorganized guild. It wasn't until we shaped up could we dish out some serious punishment, but by then the alliance already had a serious item or positional advantage.

I find it funny that you are all that bitter, you are complaining about the game before its even out lol.
None of us know anything about it apart from those interviews, no one said you cannot pay to be a "better ork" maybe a nob or something, and half of the things you are all moaning about have not even been done yet.
I dont think it will be as good as they are making it sound but you lot are embarrasing, cheer up !!

You're right, all comments should be positive, nothing negative should ever be said.

I said I'd wait until more is revealed to see if my initial impression is changed, but until then, I can have whatever opinion on the information we have I please.

BrotherVord wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Only players who pay will be able to play nobz. F2P players will be stuck as Boyz.

Are you saying you have a problem with that?

I'm personally of the opinion that it's a smart way to get people into the game and then subsequently paying for the game, which is kind of the point is it not?

It's not smart to entice people to pay for your game if all you can show them is the absolute worst part of it, i.e. being cannon fodder, no advancement possible and therefore no incentive to follow orders from the paying customers above you (it won't be fun being an ork nob either for that reason alone; unless there is friendly fire) and being stuck with all the new players who have no clue but need to work together to down one of the mighty space marine gods. Yeah, that sounds like real fun.

BrotherVord wrote:
It sounds fine to me, to be honest. I don't mind players having to put something into a game financially in order to get the full experience. We have come to this place where we as gamers feel like we are entitled to a free experience somehow. The developers and publishers need to make money, they can't do that if every free ork toon is just as good as every space marine...if that were the case then nobody would have incentive to pay to be anything more than one of the boyz. This system gives incentive to try the game, see the systems in place, and choose to buy in if you want. I like that system.

How about selling them a complete product for a change or follow the successful free-to-play-model, that really deserves that name, of League of Legends. Everything game related can be unlocked and tested just by playing. If you want to customize your character visually or show the devs your support you can pay for skins. There are also ways to pay for a shortcut to unlocking stuff.
And if they don't follow one of those routes why are they using the misleading term free-to-play if it's really pay-to-play or at the very least pay-to-win.

Providing they stick with what they are doing, this is how it will work.
Everyone starts as an ork boy if no one bought anything from the start. As you kill and complete objectives you will become a better ork boy. However to progress further up the rank system you have to pay AND obey orders through their social system. You can just get a group of friends (ork boys) and go on a rampage across the field but you will all stay as an ork boy because you didnt capture the base like the player who is a warboss told you all to.

If you wanted you pay a fee to become a space marine and again you can only progress if you follow orders and it turn give them. Hopefully because many people will not pay a lot or follow orders all the time, we will not be seeing 100 warbosses or captains fighting 2 ork boys and 3 assault marines. I imagine the amount of exp needed to become even a nob will be quite high.

Free to play models are never truly free, it just means the base game itself is accesible, but if you want to make money after spending your own to make the game, of course you are going to have charge for something.

I seriously doubt it will be pay to win, you only pay to switch races as far as I know and I seriously doubt they will let every player just buy a warboss or eldar autarch class. My guess is you will have to earn it, THEN unlock it with money.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Free to play models are never truly free, it just means the base game itself is accesible, but if you want to make money after spending your own to make the game, of course you are going to have charge for something.

League of Legends is free to play and not just some demo version or base game. Everything is free. All they sell are unlock shortcuts (and those are not needed, if you are having fun playing the game) and visual customization. It seems to work for them since they've managed to produce a fun game (although not very innovative) with a large player base.
They should just release a quick demo version and otherwise sell the 40k MMO as a full price game. That would be transparent and honest.

LoL is the biggest and most successful online game so far. Take a look at their financial report - it's ridiculous!

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You're right, all comments should be positive, nothing negative should ever be said.

I said I'd wait until more is revealed to see if my initial impression is changed, but until then, I can have whatever opinion on the information we have I please.

That is not what I said though was it, You failed to comprehend me.
I was basically pointing out that some of the negativity expressed by posters in this thread amuses me, and I said cheer up, which is commonly said to miserable people, no malice meant.
I have no problem with your opinions, I fully support freedom of speech.

Yes but in LOL you have to pay if you want to play a certain costume or unlock a character , which many many people buy so its not truly free 2 play.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Yes but in LOL you have to pay if you want to play a certain costume or unlock a character , which many many people buy so its not truly free 2 play.

No, that's partially wrong. You can unlock any character you want to play just by playing. There's also a changing selection of free characters to start the game. You only pay for costumes and shortcuts in the unlocking process. Those shortcuts are not needed; it's not a terrible and overly long grind.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Yes but in LOL you have to pay if you want to play a certain costume or unlock a character , which many many people buy so its not truly free 2 play.

No, it's F2P. What you mean is a completely free game, freeware, which is certainly isn't. You gotta pay for people and for servers etc. F2P means having free access to all basic gameplay features without being at a disadvantage to paying people...which perfectly fits LoL.

Plus: in ARAM, you can play all heroes without even having them bought.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Plus: in ARAM, you can play all heroes without even having them bought.

Unless they've changed it recently this is incorrect.

Ah I see, apologies.

Still I think the method they are trying to implement is fair tbh.

What other ways could people be 'persuaded' to join a certain race to adjust realistic numbers? A lot of AI bots for say orks and some for eldar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah forgot they will be using Tyranids to balance the games.

However I have one worry for this and this is what the behaviour of the tyranids is, I doubt this but using them as a balance mechanic does this mean they will just attack the winning side?

Should still be amazing, imagine duking it out with your squad against some dire avengers and all of a sudden a carnifex and warriors spring out of no where.

Also It seems like the ambition is brought partly from Planetside which is amazing imo and thus we will be seeing huge 4 way battles, of course more when more races are released.