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If you have FNP and take an unsaved wound vs weapons like a bone sword or direswords but pass the leadership test can you then take your FNP, same with force weapons if your opponent fails the test to activate them?

If they're not activated they don't cause instant death.
So FNP as normal.

thanks

Page 5 of the current FAQ===

Q: In assault, what comes first – Feel No Pain rolls or the roll to
activate a Force weapon? (p37)
A: The roll to activate a Force Weapon is made before
determining whether or not the victim is permitted a Feel
No Pain roll.

Q: Can Feel No Pain rolls be made against unsaved Wounds
inflicted by weapons that have the Instant Death special rule? (p35)
A: No.

The case of the Tyranid Bonesword is still relevant though. It only causes Instant Death after a failed leadership test if they suffer an unsaved wound.

So if the Feel No Pain roll was passed, there would be no unsaved wound. I suspect the FNP would come before the Leadership Test.

Howconfusing wrote:
The case of the Tyranid Bonesword is still relevant though. It only causes Instant Death after a failed leadership test if they suffer an unsaved wound.

So if the Feel No Pain roll was passed, there would be no unsaved wound. I suspect the FNP would come before the Leadership Test.

The wording for Boneswords is similar to Force Weapon - immediately after suffering (or inflicting) an unsaved wound it can potentially cause ID. Based on that and the FAQ, I would say Bonesword first.

Howconfusing wrote:
The case of the Tyranid Bonesword is still relevant though. It only causes Instant Death after a failed leadership test if they suffer an unsaved wound.

So if the Feel No Pain roll was passed, there would be no unsaved wound. I suspect the FNP would come before the Leadership Test.

There's no difference between Force and a Bonesword. Bonesword comes before FNP.

rigeld2 wrote:

Howconfusing wrote:
The case of the Tyranid Bonesword is still relevant though. It only causes Instant Death after a failed leadership test if they suffer an unsaved wound.

So if the Feel No Pain roll was passed, there would be no unsaved wound. I suspect the FNP would come before the Leadership Test.

There's no difference between Force and a Bonesword. Bonesword comes before FNP.

Force gives the "Instant Death" attribute to the weapon while the Bonesword inflicts instant death on the target model directly, I would argue that's a pretty sizable difference with the potential to alter the way the rules are applied.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Howconfusing wrote:
The case of the Tyranid Bonesword is still relevant though. It only causes Instant Death after a failed leadership test if they suffer an unsaved wound.

So if the Feel No Pain roll was passed, there would be no unsaved wound. I suspect the FNP would come before the Leadership Test.

There's no difference between Force and a Bonesword. Bonesword comes before FNP.

Force gives the "Instant Death" attribute to the weapon while the Bonesword inflicts instant death on the target model directly, I would argue that's a pretty sizable difference with the potential to alter the way the rules are applied.

But in terms of FnP they would operate identically.

1. Assume one or more unsaved wounds are caused.

2. Test for ID.

If successful: No FnP.

If unsuccessful: FnP as normal.

I have not looked at the rule itself, but if HappyJew is correct there is something you need to keep in mind. (Correction, looked into the rule because I did have someone with a copy of the codex at hand, and can confirm HappyJew is more then right.) It uses the word immediately and when you encounter this word it shows that rule comes first in the order of operations. The only thing that can confuse the matter is if two rules with the 'immediate' rule come into play at the same time, but I believe page 7 addresses those concerns.

Feel no pain does not have the word immediate in it, so it can be pushed further back along the order of events by any rule that does.

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
But in terms of FnP they would operate identically.

1. Assume one or more unsaved wounds are caused.

2. Test for ID.

If successful: No FnP.

If unsuccessful: FnP as normal.

In practice that's how I would resolve it too for simplicity, but I think RAW, there's a case for arguing since the bonesword doesn't actually become a weapon with ID, you would still be entitled to FNP against the wound that caused the leadership test, because it's not the wound itself that has ID, it's some separate effect being applied.

Only you take this test immediately on suffering an unsaved wound, before Feel No Pain tests which lack the term immediate. The effect of failing this test is to suffer instant death, you still have to resolve that section before the feel no pain roll as it is part of the rule your immediately resolving. Given that your now dead, thanks to the instant death on failure, being able to feel no pain after all that really doesn't matter any more. If you are still alive though, you feel no pain as normal because it is now it's turn to be resolved.

Immediate means that, before anything else.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

In practice that's how I would resolve it too for simplicity, but I think RAW, there's a case for arguing since the bonesword doesn't actually become a weapon with ID, you would still be entitled to FNP against the wound that caused the leadership test, because it's not the wound itself that has ID, it's some separate effect being applied.

I encourage you to re-read the instant death rule on page 38 and compare it to the wording of FNP and bone sword.

JinxDragon wrote:Only you take this test immediately on suffering an unsaved wound, before Feel No Pain tests which lack the term immediate. The effect of failing this test is to suffer instant death, you still have to resolve that section before the feel no pain roll as it is part of the rule your immediately resolving. Given that your now dead, thanks to the instant death on failure, being able to feel no pain after all that really doesn't matter any more. If you are still alive though, you feel no pain as normal because it is now it's turn to be resolved.

Immediate means that, before anything else.

You have a point here, I was neglecting that the special rules of previously removed models can't be used without special permission, so yes I would now agree, the technical differences in bone swords are functionally irrelevant because of their ability to remove a model before it even gets a FNP opportunity.