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I must say I do like the idea of giving them MoK instead of the extra CCW. Could be interesting. Though with it that could be absolutely ludicrous. Maybe a bit of overkill. I'll need to try that out. I do like MoK CSM a lot better than Berserkers though. They do the same job for less points in exchange for not being fearless. But then again why would you not have a Lord with that kind of unit. I'm not sold on spending the points for VotLW. I don't think the extra point of leadership is worth it, but that's because there aren't enough Space Marines in my meta to make the Hatred worth it.

Wait, why?

A MoK just gives them an extra attack on the first round of close combat. The extra weapon gives them an extra attack on EVERY round of close combat.

More importantly, giving out MoK is something that can be achieved, for the same price, with wargear. That sounds a little bit like a waste of a mark to me. With the extra CCW, you have the ability to have +1A AND +1T or +1I (and access to FNP), rather than being stuck with only +1A and nothing else really to show for it.

I mean, if you're going themed, then of course, and if all you want is +A, then you can take both the CCW and the MoK. But taking MoK instead of CCWs... well... why?

 Ailaros wrote:
Wait, why?

A MoK just gives them an extra attack on the first round of close combat. The extra weapon gives them an extra attack on EVERY round of close combat.

More importantly, giving out MoK is something that can be achieved, for the same price, with wargear. That sounds a little bit like a waste of a mark to me. With the extra CCW, you have the ability to have +1A AND +1T or +1I (and access to FNP), rather than being stuck with only +1A and nothing else really to show for it.

I mean, if you're going themed, then of course, and if all you want is +A, then you can take both the CCW and the MoK. But taking MoK instead of CCWs... well... why?

Eh, maybe you're right. It's late, I'm tired, I don't have my codex on hand. MoK is the mark I use the least. Almost exclusively relegated to use on combat lords. I can't remember if it's the mark or the IoW that gives them furious charge. If the mark itself gives them furious charge, that'd be some reason to take it over the extra CCW. I usually keep mine unmarked, I seriously don't see the usefulness of I5 over I4, due to the lack of Space Marines in my meta. Everything is either already faster than me (Eldar) or already slower than me (IG, Tau, Orks). I don't want to drop the points for FNP because that makes the unit way too expensive and goes beyond the original idea for these troops. Improved toughness could be worth it, but I still think it makes the unit more expensive than I'd like.

More than anything this thread has just encouraged me to stay the course with my original troops composition. 20 Vanilla CSM, 2 x Specials, Bolters and CCW.

 gpfunk wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Wait, why?

A MoK just gives them an extra attack on the first round of close combat. The extra weapon gives them an extra attack on EVERY round of close combat.

More importantly, giving out MoK is something that can be achieved, for the same price, with wargear. That sounds a little bit like a waste of a mark to me. With the extra CCW, you have the ability to have +1A AND +1T or +1I (and access to FNP), rather than being stuck with only +1A and nothing else really to show for it.

I mean, if you're going themed, then of course, and if all you want is +A, then you can take both the CCW and the MoK. But taking MoK instead of CCWs... well... why?

Eh, maybe you're right. It's late, I'm tired, I don't have my codex on hand. MoK is the mark I use the least. Almost exclusively relegated to use on combat lords. I can't remember if it's the mark or the IoW that gives them furious charge. If the mark itself gives them furious charge, that'd be some reason to take it over the extra CCW. I usually keep mine unmarked, I seriously don't see the usefulness of I5 over I4, due to the lack of Space Marines in my meta. Everything is either already faster than me (Eldar) or already slower than me (IG, Tau, Orks). I don't want to drop the points for FNP because that makes the unit way too expensive and goes beyond the original idea for these troops. Improved toughness could be worth it, but I still think it makes the unit more expensive than I'd like.

More than anything this thread has just encouraged me to stay the course with my original troops composition. 20 Vanilla CSM, 2 x Specials, Bolters and CCW.

MoK gives rage and counterattack

I played aiirman for a long time and he rarely made his points back unless i was facing a psyker heavy list and he ate up alot points i coulda used else where.
personally i think the only place mot is useful is on termies any where else if you want to add durability your better off with mon for troops i think either blob csm or daka nm are better or as i like to call the rock stars

Take the extra cc wep for 2pts/ over the mok 2pts/.