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Hi folks, two quick questions here.

So if I've got a Hammerhead with say, SMS and Railgun and I move less than 6 inches, does the SMS become a snapfire? It would appear to be the case from the shooting with vehicles rule on BRB page 71, unless I am misunderstanding something about the TL SMS system. Further - if you are snapfiring with the SMS, is that still true had the vehicle taken gun drones instead?

Next is firing with the Skyfire. The way I read it, it seems like there are a number of independent weapon systems here. (2) TL Network Markerlights, (6) seeker missiles, and TL SMS, Burstcannon, or Gun Drones. Stationary the vehicle can of course fire everything at a single target, but if it's moved at all (gotta get that jink) how does that resolve? I've never had a problem with someone in game telling me I can't fire both my networked markerlights for instance, but can I fire anything else?

I think I'm missing something, either an FAQ or a piece in the rulebooks that explains this. Would appreciate it if anyone could point me in the right direction!

Grey

If a non-fast vehicle moves combat speed (not including Flyers or Walkers), one weapon (of your choice) fires at normal BS.

So in your first example, you can fire the SMS or Railgun at normal BS.

For the second, you resolve the Markerlights first (either as Snap Shots or one of which at normal BS). Then you can fire everything else (as snap shots, or if both Markerlights were fired as Snap Shots, then one can fire at normal BS).

Actually happy, I have a question on that: Does the first weapon you fire have to be the one you shoot at full BS?

I mean, in any normal situation it doesn't matter as your going to resolve that shot first anyway, but in a handful it does. The above networked marker lights is one such case, and another is the seeker rules when using the target acquired section of Marker Lights. These sort of situations force you to fire another weapon before all others, including the one you might want to chose to shoot at full BS.

I bring this up because of the bullet point found in those seeker rules. Target Acquired seeker missiles do not count towards a weapon being shot at full BS. I reasoned such a bullet point existed because you are being forced to immediately fire a weapon. I simply assumed Jeremy Vetock was making sure that you didn't lose your one full-BS shot, because there has to be at least some writers over there that make sure odd rules are taken into account.

However, I am now feeling this is not the case and wondering the purpose of this sub-rule.

And the 2 Network Markerlights on the Skyray count as a single weapon system for the purposes of these rules?

No. They're two different guns.

So the Skyray, to be used effectively really, must not move on turns it wishes to properly contribute? The Hammerheads it seems like less of an issue unless you really want those TL SMS shots to hit for crowd control.

JinxDragon wrote:
Actually happy, I have a question on that: Does the first weapon you fire have to be the one you shoot at full BS?

The rules for firing when moving combat speed state you can fire one weapon at full BS. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other weapons. There is no stipulation that the first weapon fired must be done at full BS.

That being said the only time it matters is with Tau or a Falcon with a Scatter Laser.

Which is why I am now puzzling over that seeker sub-rule.

I mean, it is clear you are not firing the weapon at your full BS but at a unique BS given by the missile itself. Without some sort of modifier to the BS, this is typically higher then what you would find as the normal BS anyway. It would be a hard argument to push to state that firing the missile immediately counts towards your 'full BS' with those two facts. Now I am left wondering if they did it simply to prevent people even trying to make that argument.

If that is the case my respect for Jeremy Vetock as a rule-writer has increased and I already considered him one of the few goods ones they had.

It sounds like, if you don't move the Sky Ray, you can go hog wild and shoot 2 NL markerlights, resolve them, then use any hits from them to launch seekers via the ML rules, THEN fire your SMS/BC as well as any remaining seekers you wish to fire via BS 4. But if you move at all (enough to get the jink rule, so simply rotating the vehicle doesn't count here) you only get to fire one markerlight, the SMS, or one self-fired seeker at BS 4, the rest are resolved as snap fire.

Do I have that correct Happy?

GreyDragoon wrote:
It sounds like, if you don't move the Sky Ray, you can go hog wild and shoot 2 NL markerlights, resolve them, then use any hits from them to launch seekers via the ML rules, THEN fire your SMS/BC as well as any remaining seekers you wish to fire via BS 4. But if you move at all (enough to get the jink rule, so simply rotating the vehicle doesn't count here) you only get to fire one markerlight, the SMS, or one self-fired seeker at BS 4, the rest are resolved as snap fire.

Do I have that correct Happy?

That's correct. Of course, if the Markerlight hits, then any seekers fired through Target Acquired would be at BS5, regardless if the vehicle moved or not.

Your not Happy, even I was polite enough to wait for Happy!

Nah, just joking around. It is a good thing to remind him off; If any of those markerlights do manage to hit then you can launch seeker missiles with them as well to bypass the moving restrictions. I doubt he overlooked it, but still a good reminder in any case.

I'll be honest, in the games I've played I think people completely overlook this rule for the Hammerhead and the Sky Ray.

Just a quick summary, in order to get the Jink rule I need to "move" according to the rulebook correct? That hasn't been FAQ'd? And if I move at all, it's at Combat Speed, so I can only fire one weapon on the craft at full BS, and any further are snap fires. So the basic question each turn is if I want to not move at all and fire all guns at full efficiency but get no Jink cover save bonus, Move up to 6" and fire one at full and the rest at hits on 6's, or move at 6"-12" and fire everything it wants but only to hit on 6's.

Want to make sure because like most things with GW, I seem to never have heard when an FAQ has changed it all up, and hell if I haven't seen this played completely wrong well over half the time and I've been wondering all this time if I've been playing it wrong.

FAQ's blind side me all the time as well, more so the ones that make no damn sense!

You are correct that Jinx require you to move at least an inch before you can gain the save and that causes you to lose your full BS. Any movement over 6" would cause you to shoot all of the shots as snapshots, with all penalties that go with it such as no template weapons. If you opt not to fire any weapons, but move again during the shooting phase, you gain an additional bonus to your Jinx save.

With the range of those main gun of a hammerhead, which I still prefer though skyrays are very tempting, I use existing terrain I can deploy into for a save instead of Jinx. Sensor spines and a disruption pod, and all the terrain out there gives you equal to or better then a Jinx save, which the pod also boosts. Most enemies are more then willing to try and close the distance with you, aside from a handful that can out range us Tau. I say let them march towards their death, I can easily move the tank should I feel they want to bang on the hatches with their little knives.

GreyDragoon wrote:
I'll be honest, in the games I've played I think people completely overlook this rule for the Hammerhead and the Sky Ray.

Just a quick summary, in order to get the Jink rule I need to "move" according to the rulebook correct? That hasn't been FAQ'd? And if I move at all, it's at Combat Speed, so I can only fire one weapon on the craft at full BS, and any further are snap fires. So the basic question each turn is if I want to not move at all and fire all guns at full efficiency but get no Jink cover save bonus, Move up to 6" and fire one at full and the rest at hits on 6's, or move at 6"-12" and fire everything it wants but only to hit on 6's.

Want to make sure because like most things with GW, I seem to never have heard when an FAQ has changed it all up, and hell if I haven't seen this played completely wrong well over half the time and I've been wondering all this time if I've been playing it wrong.

you've got it. Its one of the reasons that people take the Gun Drones instead of the Smart Missile System so you can move at combat speed and still fire the Drones using their BS2 (or detach them and let them run around on their own).

With the Sky Ray, you can kind of do okay moving and shooting with it provided you've already got some markerlight counters on the target you want to shoot (as you just use them to launch Seekers at BS5 and use one of the Hammerhead's networked markerlights if you want to launch one more).