I haven't had my coffee today, now a mental disorder?

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**Krellnus**

Now that I have your attention, apparently caffeine withdrawl not dependency is in the DSM - V
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/31/caffeine-withdrawal-is-now-a-mental-disorder/
And for the work blocked.

We’ve all probably had that one coffee drink (or carbonated beverage) too many, at that point in a slog of a day where we’ve gone and imbibed a Red Bull or Grande coffee against our better judgment.

According to a new edition of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders out last week (DSM, or in this case, DSM-5), that sort of excessive caffeine intake can lead to a condition known as “caffeine intoxication,” except it’s nothing like the sort of blissful stupor we tend to associate with that other sort of intoxication.

If you’ve had more than 250 mg of caffeine (two to three cups of brewed coffee) and experienced five or more of the following symptoms, says the guide, you’ve probably been caffeine-buzzed: restlessness, nervousness, excitement, insomnia, flushed face, diuresis (having to pee a lot), gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, rambling flow of thought and speech, tachycardia or cardiac arrhythmia, periods of inexhaustibility or psychomotor agitation (unintentional motion, say, rapidly bouncing one leg).

This disorder, as it’s described in both the older DSM-IV and new DSM-5, falls under the heading “Caffeine-Related Disorders,” but in DSM-5, that section includes a new entry: caffeine withdrawal. According to DSM-5, symptoms of caffeine withdrawal include fatigue, headache and difficulty focusing.

“Caffeine is a drug, a mild stimulant, which is used by almost everybody on a daily basis,” said Dr. Charles O’Brien, who chairs the Substance-Related Disorder Work Group for DSM-5 (via New York Post). “But it does have a letdown afterwards. If you drink a lot of coffee, at least two or three [236 ml] cups at a time, there will be a rebound or withdrawal effect.”

Anyone who’s binged on caffeine then stopped, cold turkey, knows the withdrawal symptoms are anything but make-believe — the headaches alone can be excruciating. The question some are asking is whether it belongs in a guide devoted to mental disorders (or, for that matter, whether caffeine intoxication does).

“The symptoms of caffeine withdrawal are transitory, they take care of themselves,” said clinical psychologist Robin Rosenberg (via International Science Times), noting that the effects are temporary. “It’s just a natural response to stopping caffeine, and it clears up on its own in short order.”

DSM-5 work-group member Alan J. Budney attempted to address the controversy back in December 2011, when caffeine withdrawal was announced as being “recommended for inclusion” in the revised guide.

“We feel that there is enough data to support a caffeine-withdrawal syndrome,” said Budney. “There are enough people who go into withdrawal — that if they don’t get caffeine, it becomes a real syndrome and can affect work, sleep, or whatever they need to do. So we’re suggesting that it ‘make the big leagues’ and become part of the DSM to make sure everyone is aware of it.”

Damn shrinks, you crazy.

**Ahtman**

Chemical dependency is a real thing, so I wouldn't be surprised that people who are addicted to caffiene would be a problem, but I can't see it being listed as it's own disorder.

Though upon reflection all codifying it really does is list the symptoms involved, making it easier to identify and/or tell a person going through it what to expect, which isn't that big a deal.

**rubiksnoob**

I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

**-Loki-**

If you’ve had more than 250 mg of caffeine (two to three cups of brewed coffee) and experienced five or more of the following symptoms, says the guide, you’ve probably been caffeine-buzzed: restlessness, nervousness, excitement, insomnia, flushed face, diuresis (having to pee a lot), gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, rambling flow of thought and speech, tachycardia or cardiac arrhythmia, periods of inexhaustibility or psychomotor agitation (unintentional motion, say, rapidly bouncing one leg).

Well, feth.

**shasolenzabi**

I keep my withdrawals away via Military-Industrial Grade dark roasted coffee that light cannot escape thru(True story!)
I use a 12 cup pot for the water, and then fill the filter to 3/4 or 6/8 full of grinds and activate using Dark Roast, If I had a guest from France even he may be shocked expecting watered down coffee only to get a more heavy Morroccan dark cup of caffeinated awesome in his face!

**Krellnus**

Ahtman wrote:Chemical dependency is a real thing, so I wouldn't be surprised that people who are addicted to caffiene would be a problem, but I can't see it being listed as it's own disorder.

Though upon reflection all codifying it really does is list the symptoms involved, making it easier to identify and/or tell a person going through it what to expect, which isn't that big a deal.

I think the major issue (in my view at least) is that addictions, while they can be caused by mental disorders, are not, in of themselves mental disorders, but physiological disorders (because you know, your body pulls that I can't live without it thing).

rubiksnoob wrote:I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Where do I aquire one of these marvellous devices?

-Loki- wrote:
If you’ve had more than 250 mg of caffeine (two to three cups of brewed coffee) and experienced five or more of the following symptoms, says the guide, you’ve probably been caffeine-buzzed: restlessness, nervousness, excitement, insomnia, flushed face, diuresis (having to pee a lot), gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, rambling flow of thought and speech, tachycardia or cardiac arrhythmia, periods of inexhaustibility or psychomotor agitation (unintentional motion, say, rapidly bouncing one leg).

Well, feth.

My thoughts exactly, now where did I leave my coffee cup today....

**d-usa**

Many "mental disorders" are physiological disorders that express themselves mentally.

You can be severely depressed because of a vitamin D deficiency, or because of a lack of many other chemicals, as just one example.

**rubiksnoob**

Krellnus wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Where do I aquire one of these marvellous devices?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-12-Cup-Programmable-Coffeemaker/9219239?findingMethod=rr

They're not exactly hard-to-find items.

**Ahtman**

Krellnus wrote:
Ahtman wrote:Chemical dependency is a real thing, so I wouldn't be surprised that people who are addicted to caffiene would be a problem, but I can't see it being listed as it's own disorder.

Though upon reflection all codifying it really does is list the symptoms involved, making it easier to identify and/or tell a person going through it what to expect, which isn't that big a deal.

I think the major issue (in my view at least) is that addictions, while they can be caused by mental disorders, are not, in of themselves mental disorders, but physiological disorders (because you know, your body pulls that I can't live without it thing).

If it has a psychological component then it can still be listed, and it does. It screws with the chemicals in your brain, which is still something psychologists/psychiatrists study. The line between mental and physical disorders is not always clearly defined.

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
Many "mental disorders" are physiological disorders that express themselves mentally.

You can be severely depressed because of a vitamin D deficiency, or because of a lack of many other chemicals, as just one example.

To me..that's kinda normal.

But having dependencies on cawfee (spoken with northeasterningly accent) in the morning... eh... rubbish.

**Ahtman**

whembly wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Many "mental disorders" are physiological disorders that express themselves mentally.

You can be severely depressed because of a vitamin D deficiency, or because of a lack of many other chemicals, as just one example.

To me..that's kinda normal.

But having dependencies on cawfee (spoken with northeasterningly accent) in the morning... eh... rubbish.

That isn't actually quite what they are talking about, just as Clinical Depression isn't just being sad. It is more then just 'I need my coffee in the morning'. Caffeine, and I say this as one with a long love affair with her, isn't some benign chemical, and the expression of problems they are talking about are outside of what would be normal annoyance.

**whembly**

Ahtman wrote:
whembly wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Many "mental disorders" are physiological disorders that express themselves mentally.

You can be severely depressed because of a vitamin D deficiency, or because of a lack of many other chemicals, as just one example.

To me..that's kinda normal.

But having dependencies on cawfee (spoken with northeasterningly accent) in the morning... eh... rubbish.

That isn't actually quite what they are talking about, just as Clinical Depression isn't just being sad. It is more then just 'I need my coffee in the morning'. Caffeine, and I say this as one with a long love affair with her, isn't some benign chemical, and the expression of problems they are talking about are outside of what would be normal annoyance.

okay... I stand corrected. I can see that.

(for d-usa, full bore drunk know, so read at your peril!!!)

**Krellnus**

Ahtman wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Ahtman wrote:Chemical dependency is a real thing, so I wouldn't be surprised that people who are addicted to caffiene would be a problem, but I can't see it being listed as it's own disorder.

Though upon reflection all codifying it really does is list the symptoms involved, making it easier to identify and/or tell a person going through it what to expect, which isn't that big a deal.

I think the major issue (in my view at least) is that addictions, while they can be caused by mental disorders, are not, in of themselves mental disorders, but physiological disorders (because you know, your body pulls that I can't live without it thing).

If it has a psychological component then it can still be listed, and it does. It screws with the chemicals in your brain, which is still something psychologists/psychiatrists study. The line between mental and physical disorders is not always clearly defined.

I guess I can sort of see that, but I can't really comment much further as my knowledge of medicine is rather limited (Physics and Chemistry otoh...).
So would you say that what they are listing the is the psychological craving for caffeine and that sort of thing (the oh I really want a coffee aspect if you will)?

**chromedog**

rubiksnoob wrote:
Krellnus wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Where do I aquire one of these marvellous devices?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-12-Cup-Programmable-Coffeemaker/9219239?findingMethod=rr

They're not exactly hard-to-find items.

You might not have noticed his flag.
We can't generally plug US electrical devices into our sockets (plug is wrong to start with) because (unless the power supply is a switch mode one) 240v 50hz generally differs from the US supply. So those ones and vendor aren't really appropriate for us Aussies.

Although I have seen similar ones here. One of ours has a timer function - but it's in the kitchen - I have to actually get out of bed if I want coffee in the morning.

**rubiksnoob**

chromedog wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:
Krellnus wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Where do I aquire one of these marvellous devices?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-12-Cup-Programmable-Coffeemaker/9219239?findingMethod=rr

They're not exactly hard-to-find items.

You might not have noticed his flag.
We can't generally plug US electrical devices into our sockets (plug is wrong to start with) because (unless the power supply is a switch mode one) 240v 50hz generally differs from the US supply. So those ones and vendor aren't really appropriate for us Aussies.

Although I have seen similar ones here. One of ours has a timer function - but it's in the kitchen - I have to actually get out of bed if I want coffee in the morning.

Ah, I see. Surely there is some down under equivalent, though? I mean you guys have all those lethal animals; you need your coffee to keep you on your toes!

See, that's the beauty of my setup: I don't have to get out of bed to get coffee. . . the coffee gets me out bed, instead! I set it to start brewing ten minutes or so before I have to get up, and the noise and smell wake me up.

**KalashnikovMarine**

I still don't get why it would just be normal dependency?

**Ahtman**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I still don't get why it would just be normal dependency?

It wouldn't. It doesn't say that anyone who enjoys coffee or has it as a morning routine would go through this issue. These would most often be the extreme outliers, not just your average Joe who enjoys his cup o' joe. This just is adding it to the book so that there is a diagnostic tool available that is easy to get it as far as listing what the symptoms would be. Science likes doing things like that; science loves lists and such.

**Alfndrate**

I'm honestly not surprised by this, with the amount of caffiene I see imbibed in my office every day, it's a wonder we're not all lining up behind the dumpsters in the parking lot trying to get the our next hit. It doesn't help that there is a Starbucks within walking distance from our building.

**Dreadclaw69**

I usually have two cups in the morning, and if I go without for a few days I get crippling headaches and I have no energy. Other drinks with caffeine just don't cut it for me

**Krellnus**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I usually have two cups in the morning, and if I go without for a few days I get crippling headaches and I have no energy. Other drinks with caffeine just don't cut it for me

Please report to your nearest ~~doctor~~ psychological re-allignment facility.

**Dreadclaw69**

Can't I just go to my nearest coffee shop?

**Krellnus**

We'll allow it.

This time.

**Dreadclaw69**

Much obliged

**Icarusthepilot**

rubiksnoob wrote:
I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Does it have an alarm, or does the delicious smell just wake you up? This sounds incredible.

**rubiksnoob**

Icarusthepilot wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:
I have an automatic coffee maker by my bed that wakes me up with half a pot every morning (best alarm clock ever, by the way), and my french press for when I get back from classes every afternoon. I suffer not the withdrawal symptoms to exist.

Does it have an alarm, or does the delicious smell just wake you up? This sounds incredible.

It beeps once it's done, but the scent and soft, gurgly noise it makes while brewing are enough to rouse me before it finishes.

Just in case some people are confused, it's not some kind of magical, coffee-making alarm clock; it's just a regular coffee maker that I use as an alarm clock!

**Krellnus**

rubiksnoob wrote:

Just in case some people are confused, it's not some kind of magical, coffee-making alarm clock; it's just a regular coffee maker that I use as an alarm clock!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO my dreams

**rubiksnoob**

Krellnus wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:

Just in case some people are confused, it's not some kind of magical, coffee-making alarm clock; it's just a regular coffee maker that I use as an alarm clock!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO my dreams

Oh, pick your damn dreams back up. It works the exact same!

**chromedog**

Ours does function as an alarm clock - it's just that it's not a very good alarm clock.

It goes off once then starts. There is no snooze, there is no alternate wake up mode. The gurgling of the machine is also louder than the beep.

**Rented Tritium**

Just because they've given it a name and category and all that doesn't mean they're saying it should be treated or anything. It just means that it meets the requirement for a mental condition with its own name and page in the book, etc.

There are a lot of things in the DSM that, in actual practice, just mean "yeah this is what you have, but it's not a huge deal, come see me if it interferes with your life and job"

**master of ordinance**

Krellnus wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:

Just in case some people are confused, it's not some kind of magical, coffee-making alarm clock; it's just a regular coffee maker that I use as an alarm clock!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO my dreams

Its allright for you-these arnt available in the UK as far as i know and even if they are they will be stupidly insanely massive prices.....