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I felt like doing what FW decided not to do when they rereleased IA3 2nd Edition.

Phased Ion Gun - Updated to be in line with current ion weapons.
R18" S7 AP3 Assault 3
R18" S8 AP3 Heavy 1, 3" Blast, Gets Hot

Fusion Cascade - Just updated range to fit with current fusion guns. The second profile is another possible stat line.
R18" S6 AP1 Assault D3, Melta
R12" S8 AP1 Assault D3, Melta

Pulse Submunition Rifle - Scaled off the Pulse Bomb stats
R24" S5 AP5 Heavy 1, 3" Blast, Ignores Cover

I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

I agree its very much like the Ionhead but for the price you pay for a PIG XV9 i think its justified. S8 AP3 is awesome, just look at Noise Marines and the big difference between S7 and S8 is the ID potential especially with AP3. I like it although i think that the 8 shots rending i get from the PIG's from each XV9 now would do comparable damage and the Tau army already has alot of S7. An option to overcharge one and fire the other normaly would be a nice feature.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

If that's how you feel, then I think I did my job. on FW the PIG is described as an attempt at mounting the Ionhead's gun on a battlesuit. You do make a good point about the blast though. I see two possibilities for the overcharged profile:

R18" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 5" Blast
or
R18" S8 AP2 Heavy 1 3" Blast

Which one does the community think would be better?

 acekevin8412 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

If that's how you feel, then I think I did my job. on FW the PIG is described as an attempt at mounting the Ionhead's gun on a battlesuit. You do make a good point about the blast though. I see two possibilities for the overcharged profile:

R18" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 5" Blast
or
R18" S8 AP2 Heavy 1 3" Blast

Which one does the community think would be better?

I'd probably use the big blast most every time. Single small blasts just don't kill very much.

Additionally, the overall theme of the Hazard is an incredible amount of short ranged decent hitting dakka.

I can't really justify using the Ion gun over the fusion cascade weapon given that the FC can have just as many shots with armorbane with better AP at the same range.

You'd really need to find a better way to make the PIG a viable alternative to the FC. The traditional Hazard's PIG was viable because it released a borderline silly number of rending shots, so I think you should aim for more dakka.

 Kain wrote:

 acekevin8412 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

If that's how you feel, then I think I did my job. on FW the PIG is described as an attempt at mounting the Ionhead's gun on a battlesuit. You do make a good point about the blast though. I see two possibilities for the overcharged profile:

R18" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 5" Blast
or
R18" S8 AP2 Heavy 1 3" Blast

Which one does the community think would be better?

I'd probably use the big blast most every time. Single small blasts just don't kill very much.

Additionally, the overall theme of the Hazard is an incredible amount of short ranged decent hitting dakka.

I can't really justify using the Ion gun over the fusion cascade weapon given that the FC can have just as many shots with armorbane with better AP at the same range.

You'd really need to find a better way to make the PIG a viable alternative to the FC. The traditional Hazard's PIG was viable because it released a borderline silly number of rending shots, so I think you should aim for more dakka.

Fair point about the amount of dakka. The main problem I'm having is what GW did to the Cyclic Ion Blaster in the 6E codex. It used to be an AP1 spitting machine but now its just a fast firing Ion Rifle with a little over half the range.


I'll post another version of the PIG later today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right another go at it, I'm also redoing the Cyclic Ion Blaster while I'm at it.

Cyclic Ion Blaster
R18" S7 AP4 Assault 5
R18" S8 AP4 Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Gets Hot

From here then Phased Ion Gun becomes:
R18" S7 AP4 Assault 4, Rending
R18" S8 AP4 Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Rending, Gets Hot

 acekevin8412 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 acekevin8412 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think the phased ion gun shouldn't be toned down a bit. Makes it too comparable to the ion cannon on the hammerhead. And no reason to have a small blast with gets hot when the normal mode is assault 3 and same AP.

If that's how you feel, then I think I did my job. on FW the PIG is described as an attempt at mounting the Ionhead's gun on a battlesuit. You do make a good point about the blast though. I see two possibilities for the overcharged profile:

R18" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 5" Blast
or
R18" S8 AP2 Heavy 1 3" Blast

Which one does the community think would be better?

I'd probably use the big blast most every time. Single small blasts just don't kill very much.

Additionally, the overall theme of the Hazard is an incredible amount of short ranged decent hitting dakka.

I can't really justify using the Ion gun over the fusion cascade weapon given that the FC can have just as many shots with armorbane with better AP at the same range.

You'd really need to find a better way to make the PIG a viable alternative to the FC. The traditional Hazard's PIG was viable because it released a borderline silly number of rending shots, so I think you should aim for more dakka.

Fair point about the amount of dakka. The main problem I'm having is what GW did to the Cyclic Ion Blaster in the 6E codex. It used to be an AP1 spitting machine but now its just a fast firing Ion Rifle with a little over half the range.


I'll post another version of the PIG later today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right another go at it, I'm also redoing the Cyclic Ion Blaster while I'm at it.

Cyclic Ion Blaster
R18" S7 AP4 Assault 5
R18" S8 AP4 Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Gets Hot

From here then Phased Ion Gun becomes:
R18" S7 AP4 Assault 4, Rending
R18" S8 AP4 Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Rending, Gets Hot

That does make it awesome but in all honesty i would only ever use the 5" blast against hordes, the chance of overheading 1 of your 2 guns is a significant risk. 8 s7 shots with rending i reckon is better against armor. 8 rending shots per XV9 with marker support i think would be more effective than the 2 S8 blast with rending against anything but multi wound T4 modles like paladins and hordes. Although the idea of 2 S8 rending blasts is kinda impressive.

Overall i would say this was an improvement on the current PIG.

I think if the PIG is to bu updated to the current style of Ion weaponry, then it should be one of the AP 4 weapons (the Hazard has the Fusion Cascade for MEAs and TEQs). Probably the same basic as the Cyclic Ion Blaster but make it 2 shots instead of 3.

Fusion Cascades should be 18 inches, but not St 8.

PSR always struck me as odd with the use of Pulse when really it was just a long range, smaller blast AFP. Since it is a Pulse weapon now, it should fit that stat line, though given it is a less potent Pulse weapon compared to the Pulse Bomb, I could see it using the baseline of a Kroot Rifle Pulse Round.

Why would the PIG be worse than the Cyclic Ion Blaster for the Crisis suits?

Because the PIG is a standard weapon for an entire class of suits and the CIB is a unique weapon so potent you only get 1 of them in the army.

Jefffar wrote:
Because the PIG is a standard weapon for an entire class of suits and the CIB is a unique weapon so potent you only get 1 of them in the army.

That was my problem. I think when GW changed the CIB, they set the bar a bit lower. It's like trying to limbo under a bar 2 inches off the ground.

Assault 3 on S 7 AP 4 isn't exactly a low bar.

Now recalling the original fluff with the PIG it supposedly benefited from some technology that managed the randomness of the ionization effect. So perhaps it has some slightly different function in its overcharge mode compared to the other Ion weapons.

Jefffar wrote:
Assault 3 on S 7 AP 4 isn't exactly a low bar.

Now recalling the original fluff with the PIG it supposedly benefited from some technology that managed the randomness of the ionization effect. So perhaps it has some slightly different function in its overcharge mode compared to the other Ion weapons.

It's not, it's a souped up autocannon. IMO S7 AP4 Assault 2 is one of the best TAC statline for a gun. However, the catch is 18" which puts you close to assault range, even with thrust moves. Also stand alone it seems quite fine, but when you consider that it's only +3" and +1 shot over the light infantry mounted Ion Rifle in rapid fire range., it loses some of its luster.

You do make a good call on the random ionization effect. I tihnk S8 AP4 5" Blast Rending is strong enough. S8 in combination with Rending and a 5" Blast gives you a decent chance at ID'ing T4 enemies on a rend.

 acekevin8412 wrote:

It's not, it's a souped up autocannon. IMO S7 AP4 Assault 2 is one of the best TAC statline for a gun. However, the catch is 18" which puts you close to assault range, even with thrust moves.

You mean, Rapid Fire range. Because the maximal assault range is 18" most of the time, while the minimal JSJ range of the PIS (with Thrust Move) is 20".

Here's a funky thought, maybe instead of a blast, it's a template. Yes you need to get really close, but then that is the Hazard's style and who is going to charge a unit that gets 6d3 auto hits at St 8 AP 4?

Jefffar wrote:
Here's a funky thought, maybe instead of a blast, it's a template. Yes you need to get really close, but then that is the Hazard's style and who is going to charge a unit that gets 6d3 auto hits at St 8 AP 4?

Hammernators, Sword and Board lychguard, or wraithblades with shields with that one buff that improves their armor save to 2+?

 Kain wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Here's a funky thought, maybe instead of a blast, it's a template. Yes you need to get really close, but then that is the Hazard's style and who is going to charge a unit that gets 6d3 auto hits at St 8 AP 4?

Hammernators, Sword and Board lychguard, or wraithblades with shields with that one buff that improves their armor save to 2+?

It's still an average of 12 hits that wound any of the above on a 2+ and double out T4 or less. that's a fair bit of damage to some pretty pricey units there, even if they are getting a 2+ on them,

Jefffar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Here's a funky thought, maybe instead of a blast, it's a template. Yes you need to get really close, but then that is the Hazard's style and who is going to charge a unit that gets 6d3 auto hits at St 8 AP 4?

Hammernators, Sword and Board lychguard, or wraithblades with shields with that one buff that improves their armor save to 2+?

It's still an average of 12 hits that wound any of the above on a 2+ and double out T4 or less. that's a fair bit of damage to some pretty pricey units there, even if they are getting a 2+ on them,

True enough, but they should be hardy enough to ensure at least some get close enough to start hitting them in the face.

These are Hazard suits though. They are designed to weather the charge then hit and run to free up the fire lines.

And seeing as they would have used the templates 8 inches range) then hopped backwards 2D6 inches, there is no garuntee that after that nasty of an over watch there will be a model in charge range.