Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Is there any member who can be contacted to discuss moderation? I justs had an entire post 6 paragraph post deleted, I'm a little confused as to why that is. I asked for clarification and only received a threat. My post was on topic and it was in a thread I myself had started.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 20:29:19
Manchu wrote: Moderators discuss all actions openly among ourselves.
That doesn't do anything in regards to you explaining why you do what you do, like deleting Crablezworth's thread and giving him no reason but a threat, does that sound right and okay with you guys? Because it sounds borderline power abuse to me.
Manchu wrote: Moderators discuss all actions openly among ourselves.
That doesn't do anything in regards to you explaining why you do what you do, like deleting Crablezworth's thread and giving him no reason but a threat, does that sound right and okay with you guys? Because it sounds borderline power abuse to me.
Actually the only thing that is immediately noticeable is that Crablezworth had a post edited/removed not an entire thread, but there is a post that has been edited and RedS8n says it was edited due to language. Not sure what was on that post before, which is why I asked if it had to do with language. Also, OP is this the post you're talking about?
Spoiler:
Crablezworth wrote: "we have no time for politics, private agendas, or petty behaviour. Leave your ego at home." Who says that in the context of trying to attract applicants? (and really, leaving your ego completely at home in the contest of a sales position is just bad advice IMO) I understand portions of this may seem like standard HR bulls**t to some but the overall tone as far as I perceive it is really messed up. All I could picture while reading this flyer was the individual who wrote it and I just felt like “man… who urinated in this individuals cornflakes?”.
The back side of the flyer doesn’t really even do what it sets out to in the title. The title was “who we are and what we do”, there is no mention on that side of what they do and on the other side they only mention products and services but nothing further. I can already hear you saying "well if you picked it up in a GW you already know what they do" sure, that's fine, why put it in the flyer in massive type? I understand this is a general recruitment flyer and not a specific job posting but god damn, why put in the title "what we do" if you're not going to mention that at all. I guess what you do, like skills, just isn't important but who you are, is very important... especially if you're full blown sociopath apparently.
There are also plenty of things absent here which you'd find in normal HR speak and career information, stuff that probably should be mentioned to maybe soften things a bit and make a career at GW sound more inviting. There's no mention of a fun fast paced environment, creativity, love of hobby activities, being a self starter, loving games, enjoy working with and around kids yaddy yaddy yadda, which I expected to read at some point.
The flyer mentions attitude, but never the word positive, simply a somewhat ominous "right" attitude, whatever that may be. They mention having values, just not what those values are. There's really no mention of what the ideal candidate would be, as they've de-emphasized skills, in fact only mentioning that some positions may require some professional qualification or proven talent, which is again de-emphasized because being a blank slate apparently is more important. "You're quite talented Jimmy but we were hoping you'd be more of a sociopath". It might help to actually impart some information about the company or what an ideal candidate looka like, simply saying "right" or "wrong" with no context of what constitutes either is creepy.
I'll put my cards on the table, I'm not a big fan of GW corporate, I love most of the 40k fluff/models and I respect a lot of the creative side of the company who are sort of held hostage by the business side. So yes, it's hard not to have some bias, I can certainly assume what a "right" and what "wrong" attitude may consist of in their eyes and it's a fair point that has been made.
With that said, try looking at the content of the flyer and pretend (if you’re able) that you don't really know what games workshop does, maybe you came across the content of the flyer without having heard of the company before. Does it sound like a company you want to work for? A lot of the HR crap from other retailers are kind of simplistic and laughable but they certainly have a far more positive and agreeable tone/spin to them, one that may actually attract applicants.
"people who don't fit or who "play" at fitting, will be unhappy" that sounds ominous
Edit: Also moderators usually only discuss moderation with the person, and even then I wouldn't know into what detail as I've never been warned (though I'm sure there is an every growing list of "Alf is pushing it again" posts...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 20:51:45
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
That doesn't do anything in regards to you explaining why you do what you do, like deleting Crablezworth's thread and giving him no reason but a threat, does that sound right and okay with you guys? Because it sounds borderline power abuse to me.
we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with moderation powers. Who's gonna do it? You? Manchus have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You have the luxury of not knowing what he knows.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 20:53:06
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
The 6 paragraph post contained a swear word that I had edited with stars. This was also in the first paragraph, the word was feth. It also had a youtube video in it for which I posted an nsfw for language warning in red. I had put two stars in the middle of the swear word. Is the autocorrect thing the only allowed variation? If that's the case I don't understand why that couldn't just be communicated and allow me to edit my post so that it jives with the rules. I'm really not looking to make waves, I just can't understand why a 6 paragraph post in a thread I myself had started that was very much on topic was deleted. Is this the appropriate method for dealing with stuff like this, I wasn't really sure as this section of the forum seems more towards technical inquiries.
*edit* the word was gak not feth sorry
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/19 05:41:22
Manchu wrote: Moderators discuss all actions openly among ourselves.
That doesn't do anything in regards to you explaining why you do what you do, like deleting Crablezworth's thread and giving him no reason but a threat, does that sound right and okay with you guys? Because it sounds borderline power abuse to me.
This is a forum about toy soldiers. You can call off the revolution. Plus, you're taking accusations at face value. Believer beware.
The bigger issue is this isn't a court and you don't get an appeal. We have a few simple, reasonable rules. You can only post on the site to the extent that you follow them. All moderator action is available to every other moderator. We ask each other for opinions and advice as well as offer one another constructive criticism.
Grundz wrote: You have the luxury of not knowing what he knows.
It helps that one has to fail a sanity check to become a moderator here. Also, you can't handle the truth.
Yes. Circumventing the swear filter is not allowed because it often renders the filter pointless.
Crablezworth wrote: If that's the case I don't understand why that couldn't just be communicated and allow me to edit my post so that it jives with the rules.
Generally speaking, we will allow for teaching moments like this with new users or users who clearly do something by accident. Users who have broken the same rule again and again despite warnings don't get the same benefit.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/06/18 21:04:18
Ok, I'll make sure to just use the autocorrect. I understand a warning, I still don't understand why the whole post was redacted/deleted. Also, was the video a faux pas too or was that done appropriately, I'm not trying to be wilfully dense but when I have received warnings in the past and in the context of this current warning, it's not really clear what I'm doing and how to correct it. (please don't think I'm being stand offish, I really do want to understand what to correct and what to avoid in the future)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 21:15:51
Manchu wrote: Moderators discuss all actions openly among ourselves.
That doesn't do anything in regards to you explaining why you do what you do, like deleting Crablezworth's thread and giving him no reason but a threat, does that sound right and okay with you guys? Because it sounds borderline power abuse to me.
Actually the only thing that is immediately noticeable is that Crablezworth had a post edited/removed not an entire thread, but there is a post that has been edited and RedS8n says it was edited due to language. Not sure what was on that post before, which is why I asked if it had to do with language. Also, OP is this the post you're talking about?
Spoiler:
Crablezworth wrote: "we have no time for politics, private agendas, or petty behaviour. Leave your ego at home." Who says that in the context of trying to attract applicants? (and really, leaving your ego completely at home in the contest of a sales position is just bad advice IMO) I understand portions of this may seem like standard HR bulls**t to some but the overall tone as far as I perceive it is really messed up. All I could picture while reading this flyer was the individual who wrote it and I just felt like “man… who urinated in this individuals cornflakes?”.
The back side of the flyer doesn’t really even do what it sets out to in the title. The title was “who we are and what we do”, there is no mention on that side of what they do and on the other side they only mention products and services but nothing further. I can already hear you saying "well if you picked it up in a GW you already know what they do" sure, that's fine, why put it in the flyer in massive type? I understand this is a general recruitment flyer and not a specific job posting but god damn, why put in the title "what we do" if you're not going to mention that at all. I guess what you do, like skills, just isn't important but who you are, is very important... especially if you're full blown sociopath apparently.
There are also plenty of things absent here which you'd find in normal HR speak and career information, stuff that probably should be mentioned to maybe soften things a bit and make a career at GW sound more inviting. There's no mention of a fun fast paced environment, creativity, love of hobby activities, being a self starter, loving games, enjoy working with and around kids yaddy yaddy yadda, which I expected to read at some point.
The flyer mentions attitude, but never the word positive, simply a somewhat ominous "right" attitude, whatever that may be. They mention having values, just not what those values are. There's really no mention of what the ideal candidate would be, as they've de-emphasized skills, in fact only mentioning that some positions may require some professional qualification or proven talent, which is again de-emphasized because being a blank slate apparently is more important. "You're quite talented Jimmy but we were hoping you'd be more of a sociopath". It might help to actually impart some information about the company or what an ideal candidate looka like, simply saying "right" or "wrong" with no context of what constitutes either is creepy.
I'll put my cards on the table, I'm not a big fan of GW corporate, I love most of the 40k fluff/models and I respect a lot of the creative side of the company who are sort of held hostage by the business side. So yes, it's hard not to have some bias, I can certainly assume what a "right" and what "wrong" attitude may consist of in their eyes and it's a fair point that has been made.
With that said, try looking at the content of the flyer and pretend (if you’re able) that you don't really know what games workshop does, maybe you came across the content of the flyer without having heard of the company before. Does it sound like a company you want to work for? A lot of the HR crap from other retailers are kind of simplistic and laughable but they certainly have a far more positive and agreeable tone/spin to them, one that may actually attract applicants.
"people who don't fit or who "play" at fitting, will be unhappy" that sounds ominous
Edit: Also moderators usually only discuss moderation with the person, and even then I wouldn't know into what detail as I've never been warned (though I'm sure there is an every growing list of "Alf is pushing it again" posts...
I had re-posted it on a local forum so I was able to go there and copy and paste it back on to dakka but had I not done that it would have been lost. I removed the part that said gak but I also removed the youtube link because I was just paranoid about what was causing the issue. Can I re add the youtube like with an nsfw warning in red for language?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/19 05:42:16
Facist Mods don't have accountability.
You serve the people of Dakka well or you are baned!
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
Crablezworth wrote: Can I re add the youtube like with an nsfw warning in red for language?
Sure.
One practice that I have seen which I think is good is to also add spoiler tags around the video along with a NSFW warning. That's a good one.
Just to be clear: I think we're talking about a video that has some light swearing that is not itself the central point of the video. As usual, any post is subject to moderation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/18 21:52:51
Crablezworth wrote: Can I re add the youtube like with an nsfw warning in red for language?
Sure.
One practice that I have seen which I think is good is to also add spoiler tags around the video along with a NSFW warning. That's a good one.
Just to be clear: I think we're talking about a video that has some light swearing that is not itself the central point of the video. As usual, any post is subject to moderation.
Thanks I'll put a spoiler marker over it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The entire post has been completely removed again, this is after it was edited to remove any violations of dakka dakka forum rules. The swear word was removed entirely and I had verified in this very thread if the link to youtube was allowed and if I had gone about posting it in the right way which manchu later suggested using a spoiler tag, which I used. I was again sent a pm threatening the the temporary loss of my ability to post on dakka dakka even though the post no longer contained any offensive language.
Guys I'm getting some really mixed signals here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/19 08:12:09
purplefood wrote: Facist Mods don't have accountability.
You serve the people of Dakka well or you are baned!
This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
As said in PM: directly PM the mod who deleted it first and try to sort it out, most mods are very reasonable and I think it's just a simple misunderstanding.
If the problem persists, contact an admin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/19 12:42:59
Crablezworth wrote: Can I re add the youtube like with an nsfw warning in red for language?
Sure.
One practice that I have seen which I think is good is to also add spoiler tags around the video along with a NSFW warning. That's a good one.
Just to be clear: I think we're talking about a video that has some light swearing that is not itself the central point of the video. As usual, any post is subject to moderation.
Thanks I'll put a spoiler marker over it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The entire post has been completely removed again, this is after it was edited to remove any violations of dakka dakka forum rules. The swear word was removed entirely and I had verified in this very thread if the link to youtube was allowed and if I had gone about posting it in the right way which manchu later suggested using a spoiler tag, which I used. I was again sent a pm threatening the the temporary loss of my ability to post on dakka dakka even though the post no longer contained any offensive language.
Guys I'm getting some really mixed signals here.
Maybe because it is yet another "GW is stupid" post. Yes, we are aware that they are making poor decisions, yes, we know their employees are awful. Another 6 paragraphs isn't going to make the point even clearer.
purplefood wrote: Facist Mods don't have accountability.
You serve the people of Dakka well or you are baned!
This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
You are not a moderator so you are not allowed to question the moderators!
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
purplefood wrote: Facist Mods don't have accountability.
You serve the people of Dakka well or you are baned!
This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
All posters are equal, but some are more equal then others.
purplefood wrote: Facist Mods don't have accountability.
You serve the people of Dakka well or you are baned!
This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
You are not a moderator so you are not allowed to question the moderators!
In 95% of the time I don't question the moderators because I agree with their ruling, but the post(s) I'm talking about clearly break rule 2, and therefore breaks rule 1(as per the wording of rule 2), and all members of Dakka have to abide by the rules, not just us regular users (am I correct in this assumption Manchu?)
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
In 95% of the time I don't question the moderators because I agree with their ruling, but the post(s) I'm talking about clearly break rule 2, and therefore breaks rule 1(as per the wording of rule 2), and all members of Dakka have to abide by the rules, not just us regular users (am I correct in this assumption Manchu?)
So you have 726 posts questioning the moderators? no wonder they ignore you!
To note: I dont disagree with you
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
The GW bashing is a good topic to touch on as an example:
Yes, we have seen this thread MANY times.
We are not allowed to "raise the dead" of old threads but start new ones.
Sometimes it does devolve to poor taste but sometimes GW changes policy without notice so we all try to figure out what is going on.
Having a moderator crush a "been there seen that, many times" thread can be confusing to new users.
I would suggest as a policy maker myself: ONLY use the forum rules exclusively to determine deletion.
If you have other criteria it would only be right to update the rules.
Hard for us to follow them if we are not aware like using the spelling correct as a guide for swear word alternatives.
I personally figure the English language is robust enough to make a point without swearing but we all have our means of self expression.
**edit: dyslexia fixes**
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/19 13:29:48
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
In 95% of the time I don't question the moderators because I agree with their ruling, but the post(s) I'm talking about clearly break rule 2, and therefore breaks rule 1(as per the wording of rule 2), and all members of Dakka have to abide by the rules, not just us regular users (am I correct in this assumption Manchu?)
Ask another mod you trust to look at the case as well or contact an admin and kindly ask them to have a look into a matter. Mods need to be better than users, they have to lead by example, and if they fail to meet that criteria, file a complaint - that's how I'd tackle it.
If you have an issue with a moderator, pm the moderator.
If that doesn't work, pm . an admin
If that doesn't work, you're probably in deep gak.
Also, this thread is veering off topic. Original topic is moderator
accountability. The anti-fascist dialogue, while ironic and
amusing, is also ironic and amusing. Actually, it's also off topic.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Alfndrate wrote: This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
Alfndrate wrote: This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
I don't understand your objection.
Mod spams a thread, User calls moderator on said action, said Mod tells user to leave the moding to Mods.
Alfndrate wrote: This statement has never held more water than it has today after seeing a post from a moderator telling a user to leave the moderating to the moderators.
I don't understand your objection.
I had in my pre-coffee state left out a clause of, "when that user had commented that the moderator was breaking a Dakka rule." With Malf's post, I'll PM the mod, thanks guys!
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
Cyporiean wrote: Mod spams a thread, User calls moderator on said action, said Mod tells user to leave the moding to Mods.
That's still appropriate, IMO. As a user, you don't get to call out other users (whether mods or not). The only appropriate action when you think something breaks the rules is hit the yellow triangle. From there, it's up to the staff -- and yes, if you're reporting a mod for breaking the rules other mods than the one you think broke the rules will see your report.
Again, this is a toy soldier forum. There is really no need to "fight the power."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/19 14:26:20
I've PM'd the mod in question to show my displeasure at the "attitude" of the post. On that note though, it's not really fighting the power when you're trying to hold the moderators to the very same rules they hold us to.
I'll be mindful to just hit the triangle of friendship in the future instead of saying, "hey dude remember rule 1, 2, or 3, etc..."
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
Alfndrate wrote: it's not really fighting the power when you're trying to hold the moderators to the very same rules they hold us to.
My point is, you don't get to hold anyone to any standard other than via hitting the yellow triangle or sending a (non-rulebreaking) PM. It is simply incorrect to imagine it is your job or right to call out other members (whether mods or not) "in public." I have seen users try to validate this behavior with all kinds of noble talk, as if they're some kind of Patrick Henry, but this is just a site about toy soldiers so I suspect it's really about drama.
For those who don't know, Patrick Henry was the guy who riled up the American colonists with rhetoric like "give me liberty or give me death."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/19 14:48:00
" -KingCracker
