Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That's just the beginning of a wip. All the models have the daredevils special rule, the point cost rest unchanged

HQ
Lord commissar (IG) + daredevils
Company command squad (IG) + daredevils
Primaris psyker (IG) + daredevils
Techpreist enginseer (IG) + daredevils
===============

Aleksandr Kurganov
Independent character (unique) 100 points
WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W3,I4,A3,Ld10,Sv4+(Inv4+)
Bastard chainsword, Carapace armour, Bolt pistol, Frag and krak granades, Sacred icon
Supreme Commander (IG), Warriors of ice, Father of the Kurganova Siters.

Bastard chainsword:S+2, AP4, Melee
Sacred icon: inv sv4+

Father of the Kurganova Siters: if there is a line of sight between Aleksandr and any of the Kurganova Sisters, they both benefit of the effects of the rules Zealot and Ethernal warrior.
===============

RAVEN The Freedom Fighter
Independent character (unique) 80 points

WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W3, I4, A3, Ld9, Sv6+(Inv5+)
Improvised armour, Raven's shotguns (with dumdum bullets), broken chains, frag and krak grenades.
Jungle fighters, Move through cover, Hit and run, Scout, Acute Senses, Lucky girl.

Raven's shotguns (with dumdum bullets):
ranged- 12", S4, AP 6, assault 4.
h2h- count as two melee weapons.

Broken chains: from the Raven's controlling player turn in wich the model has been deployed all the models with the Jungle fighters special rule benefit of the effects of the rule Hatred (Imperium). The effects last also if the model is retired from play.

Lucky girl: thanks to her luck she dodges shots and blows effortlessly. The model has a 5+ invulnerability save.
===============

Ilsa Wolfenstein
Independent character (unique) 100 points

WS5,BS3,S4,T4,W3, I4, A3,Ld10,Sv4+
A pair of lighting claws, carapace armour, enhanced regeneration system, frag and krak grenades.
Junker guard, Stubborn, Rage.

Enhanced body: the model benefit from the effects of the rule It will not die. Moreover she has resilience and strength beyond that of an ordinary woman, as shown in her profile.
===============

ELITE

Storm troopers(IG) + daredevils
===============

Hitman squad (5-10, 16 points per model)
WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A1,Ld8,Sv4+
sniper rifle, carapace armour
infiltrate, stealth, daredevils
===============

Mortaria Noctis (upgrade character (unique) for the hitman squad)
replace an hitman for 130 points
WS4,BS6,S3,T3,W2,I5,A2,Ld10,Sv4+
Noctis rifle, blackskin
Junker guard, Fearless, Move through cover.

blackskin: Sv 4+
Noctis rifle: 36" str X* AP 1 Type Heavy1, Sniper.

*The Noctis rifle inflicts 2 wounds instead of just 1 on any non vehicle model wounded (you still need to wound on a 4+ as for any sniper weapon). Against vehicles it has an Armour Penetration of 4d6.
If a model is killed by the Noctis Rilfe roll a d6. If the result is 1 or 2 it is retired from play as usual. On a 3+ the model is not removed from play, but it is instead controlled by the Mortaria's controlling player (with one wound left). If the model was part of a unit it has to be placed at 3" from the unit he was part of. In the ongoing Mortaria's player turn it cannot perform any action. This model is never considered a Scoring unit but may be a Denial unit, following the normal exceptions. If killed does not confer any Kill Point.
Wounds caused by the noctis rifle are allocated by the Mortaria's controlling player.
===============


TROOPS

Storm troopers(IG) (yes, again) + daredevils

TROOPS
Veteran multirole squad (2-10, 7 points per model)
veteran multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A1,Ld7,Sv5+
commander multirole WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A2,Ld8,Sv5+
sergeant multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A2,Ld8,Sv5+
weapons team multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W2,I3,A2,Ld7,Sv5+
veteran commissar WS4,BS5,S3,T3,W2,I3,A2,Ld10,Sv5+

Flak armour, lasgun and laspistol (veteran commissar has bolt pistol and close combat weapon instead), frag and krak grenades.
Daredevils, stubborn/summary execution (veteran commissar only), Junior officier (commander multirole only).

Options:
The squad may be joined by a veteran commissar for 50 points
One veteran may be promoted sergeant for 10 points or be promoted to commander multirole for 15 points
One veteran may have Medi-pack for 30 points
One veteran may have vox-caster for 5 points
Up to 3 other veterans may replace their lasgun with:
-flamer or sniper rifle for 5 points
-metlagun for 10 points
Replace two veterans with a weapon team armed with one of the following:
-Mortar for 5 points
-Heavy bolter for 10 points
-Missile launcher or assault cannon for 15 points
-Plasma cannon for 20 points
The squad may chose between:
-replace its flak armour with carapace armour for 3 points per model
-take camo-cloacks and snare mines for 3 points per model

FAST ATTACK
===============

trooper warbike squad (1-10, 20 points per model)
WS3,BS4,S3,T3(4),W1,I3,A1,Ld8,Sv3+
daredevils
carapace armour, warbike
warbike: increase arour save +1, twin linked bolter
===============

HEAVY SUPPORT
===============

Armored Personnel Unit (walker) 150 points
WS3,BS4,S5,Front12,Side12,Rear10,I3,A2,HP3
open topped, skyfire, interceptor, daredevils
Missile launcher, Autocannon, smoke launchers, searchlight
===============

daredevils: at the beginning of the game a unit with the daredevils special rule must chose between the following TGG special rules:

-Jungle fighters: shrouded and worse amour save -1, if vehicle shrouded.
-Warriors of ice: and they shall know no fear, if vehicle split fire.
-Junker guard: feel no pain 6+, if vehicle it will not die.

an independent character may join only units that have chosen the same TGG special rule.

I'm sorry but no, no army-wide FNP.

why?
what instead?
please, no deadlock answers

Well think of the other armies that can get FNP on a large scale. Blood Angels have to get the pretty costly Sang. Priests, Dark Eldar have to wipe out a unit before one of theirs gets such an effect, and yet you want to give them it for no extra cost at all?

Thanks for the reply. Here my points:
1. IMHO GW pricing in points is, to use an euphemism, doubtful. So I just take it as a simple general reference, before testing.
2. DE wracks armies do the same, nevertheless...
3. ...we should not compare too much units from different codices. This is not an IG army . They have no dedicated transport, no tank, no flyer etc.

Make it 6+FNP and it sounds more reasonable.

ok, FNP 6+

I dont really believe that stating they have no dedicated transport or fliers is a reason for them to have FNP. Lots of IG armies have no chimeras or fliers and still perform very well. But whatever, its a 6+.

Interesting to see storm troopers as a troops choice, I presume it is to have a unit like veterans are to guardsmen in the troops slot but in this case it's stormtroopers to vets. The main difficulty here is that you have a deep striking unit that is also scoring. It could be quite good, for example put an objective in area terrain, deepstrike in with 10 troopers and flamers then gtg for 3+cover. A number of those could be hard to remove. Also the vets, are all the other units counted as vets so have the +1BS as well and points change? Otherwise this would seem a bit strange. But in reality I dont think you want vets platoons, assuming you keep their cost at 70pts each it'll get expensive quick for minimal gain. Orders onto platoon blobs offset their weaken BS generally and it wont help at all when they're charged. The only benefit I see in vet platoons are durability against assaulting walkers and MCs, take 30 krak grenades to the face thanks. So I would just keep them as normal platoons.

For the units you've proposed, the warbikers dont seem that impressive. Sure shooting wise they're competing with bare marine bikers but they aren't quite as durable with 1 less toughness and in a melee would be significantly worse, which is a nice use for bikers. The hitmen seem very good. They're the same cost as bare scout snipers with higher BS but lower S&T, not that that matters for snipers. Plus they come with stealth standard, not an additional 3pts and most likely will have shrouded instead. Too cheap IMO, loosing stealth wont help as they'd just take shrouded from daredevils so only thing to do is raise the points. And the armoured walker? 80pts for a ML/Auto dread with skyfire AND interceptor... sheesh... more like 150pts.

Before I comment on the army itself, are the units listed above the only units you can take? Or do you still access to normal IG units or at least allies?

 rahxephon wrote:
I dont really believe that stating they have no dedicated transport or fliers is a reason for them to have FNP. Lots of IG armies have no chimeras or fliers and still perform very well. But whatever, its a 6+.

But in reality I dont think you want vets platoons... So I would just keep them as normal platoons.

For the units you've proposed, the warbikers dont seem that impressive.

The hitmen seem very good. They're the same cost as bare scout snipers with higher BS but lower S&T, not that that matters for snipers. Plus they come with stealth standard, not an additional 3pts and most likely will have shrouded instead. Too cheap IMO,

And the armoured walker? 80pts for a ML/Auto dread with skyfire AND interceptor... sheesh... more like 150pts.

Ok for the standard platoon, the hitmen now are 3 points more expensives, and the walker is 150 points.

@Blacksails. For the moment that's all. Just small spacial rules to be written later for the special characters. To keep it simple they have no alliances allowed for the moment.

I don't like the idea of normal infantry squads in this army.
What do you think of forgetting the platoon rule and the infantry squad and taking:

-the platoon command squad as elite choice?
-the heavy weapons squad as heavy support choice?
-and the special weapons squad?

what about BS3 (e.g. for the heavy weapon)t? For me it's not a big deal

PS
as a general rule I would like to design an elite army (compared to the IG): less but more effective models.

First special HQ

Mortaria Noctis
Independent character (unique) 145 points
Mortaria Noctis (upgrade character (unique) for the hitman squad)
130 points
WS4,BS6,S3,T3,W2,I5,A2,Ld10,Sv4+
Noctis rifle, blackskin
Junker guard, Fearless, Move through cover.

blackskin: Sv 4+
Noctis rifle: 36" str X* AP 1 Type Heavy1, Sniper.

*The Noctis rifle inflicts 2 wounds instead of just 1 on any non vehicle model wounded. Has an Armour Penetration of 4d6. If a model is killed by the Noctis Rilfe roll a d6. On a 4+ the model is not removed from play, but is instead controlled by the Mortaria's controlling player (with one wound left). If the model was part of a unit is considered engaged in hand o hand combat with the former comrades. Wounds caused by the noctis rifle are allocated by the Mortaria's controlling player.

or also (I think I will keep this one):
Mortaria Noctis (upgrade character (unique) for the hitman squad)
replace an hitman for 130 points (145-16=129)

Please explain to me why this random imperial guardsmen with no fluff has a better sniper then a vindicare assassin? How come his blackskin is better then assasins skin (6+ FnP) when it sounds like only a latex fetish costume and god only knows how the mind control bullet works. But I'm going to take a good guess that it is OP as heck.

This is also a hard counter to every shooty unit in the game because I kill and the unit can't shoot because it is in assault. Why do two wounds? Is that needed? It is also really OP because the vindicare only does 2 wounds on a 4+. I'm not even going to try help you balance this guy, because I don't think the idea will work. He CAN'T be as good as a vindicare, because they are the BEST snipers, that's there niche, and I doubt you will be happy if this guy is just some simple joe with a fancy rifle.

Larkins was arguably that good a shot.

HQ
Aleksandr Kurganov
Independent character (unique) 75 points
WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W3,I4,A3,Ld10,Sv4+
Bastard chainsword, Carapace armour, Bolt pistol, Frag and krak granades, Sacred icon
Senior Officer (IG), Warriors of ice, Father of the Kurganova Siters.

Bastard chainsword:S+2, AP4, Melee
Sacred icon: inv sv4+

Father of the Kurganova Siters: if there is a line of sight between Aleksandr and any of the Kurganova Sisters, they both benefit of the effects of the rules Zealot and Ethernal warrior.

I think my references are just obvious, but some guys think highlighting my references could in any way be a sort of criticism to the proposed rule. Now I just declare the reference to stop this kind of behaviour (not discussing the rule but discovering the "hidden and secret reference"):

as a reference extimate the price of a company commander without the veterans, with a rosarius (estimed 25 points), bolt pistol, power mace, carapace armour, and give him zealot and ethernal warrior and give him krak granades. 22+25+2+10+5+4+something=68+something

or an inquisitor without psyk-out grenades, with power mace, rosarius (estimed 25 points), no stubborn and with instead zealot and ethernal warrior and Senior officer.
25-something+10+25+something=60-something+something


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Please explain to me why this random imperial guardsmen with no fluff has a better sniper then a vindicare assassin? How come his blackskin is better then assasins skin (6+ FnP) when it sounds like only a latex fetish costume and god only knows how the mind control bullet works. But I'm going to take a good guess that it is OP as heck.

This is also a hard counter to every shooty unit in the game because I kill and the unit can't shoot because it is in assault. Why do two wounds? Is that needed? It is also really OP because the vindicare only does 2 wounds on a 4+. I'm not even going to try help you balance this guy, because I don't think the idea will work. He CAN'T be as good as a vindicare, because they are the BEST snipers, that's there niche, and I doubt you will be happy if this guy is just some simple joe with a fancy rifle.

1.If you are not trying to help, what are you doing here? It is not clear to me...if you just state: "I do not like your idea so please stop" I thing you skipped this:

"It seems we have a rash of inappropriate behaviour in here, and frankly, it's getting tiresome.

The proposed rules forum is here for people to propose changes to the rules of the game. You may not like some of those ideas. That's fine. But that's no excuse for ridiculing the poster making a suggestion.

Pointing out (politely!) why you think a given idea is the wrong way to go is just fine. As is offering ideas as to how the idea could be refined or improved. That's part of the point of posting these ideas in the first place.

Simply slamming someone for having the temerity to float an idea? Nope, not acceptable. The same rules on spam and inappropriate behaviour apply here as in the rest of the site.

Please keep in mind that the forum caters to people of all ages, and who don't always enjoy the same aspects of the game that you do. If you see a post that seems to be based more in youthful enthusiasm than in balanced game design, take that as an opportunity to help someone develop their ideas, rather than to stifle someone who is just trying to add a little something different to their game of toy soldiers. "

2.For the fluff, please give a look to the thoughest girls of the galaxy kickstarter (it is what this topic is about, you know...):
Mortaria Noctis, Hitwoman

The arcane and lore uncovered by the Iron Empire are particularly deep and complex, and it is believed that only a very small part has yet been understood. One of the darkest secrets of the lost Aegyptian civilization are the death scarabs. Discovered by the high Necro Priestess Nephahrya herself, these creatures instantly turn the body of any living thing they enter into some kind of undead puppet at the command of their necromancer master.

When Nephahrya heard about the astounding prowess of a young sniper named Mortaria Noctis, she hatched a crazy scheme. After several years of complex research, the two deadly women have been able to create a bullet that contains one of these scarabs...

This feat made Mortaria instantly famous among the Iron Empire's high society, and turned her into some sort of dark heroine capable of taking control of the highest ranking enemy officers and thus, of their troops, with just a single shot.

3. We do not have to worship GW. They just need our money.

4. Better sniper then the vindicare? She is better maybe because she has no Hellfire shots and no shield breaker. Or maybe because of the WS-3, BS-2, S-1, T-1, I-2, A-2, No stealth and no inflitrate. Or maybe because she has just the same Turbopenetrator (she also wounds on a 4+ because she has a Sniper rifle), or maybe because she has no Frag granades, no Fleet, no Lighting reflexes? Or maybe because she has the same FNP 6+ and same armour save 4+ (please read carefully before stating the blackskin is better then the synskin).

The ability to get control of an enemy on a 4+ after having killed him? Maybe that is THE REASON why she lost all this stuff for the same price as the vindicare.

The reason I don' think see will balance is because the mind control will never be fair or practical. I personally wouldn't want someone touching my models with grubby fingers no matter the rules, and it also means you can tie up any unit by simply killing a model and forcing them to kill that in assault instead of doing what you want. IG heavy wapons getting you down? Hit on 2's (-2 BS matter very little past BS 5) and wound on 4's (the only part I think might be balancing) and instant kill it. Then he comes back and locks them in assault.

The rest isn't too bad, but I just feel that its tying to much into one rifle. 2 wounds is OK I guess, and a *type* of mind control might be applicable, but both is a bit silly. Maybe because I don't know the fluff of these 'gals'. IF you wanted to keep the mind control It would be more practical that the model either leaves the unit (still wouldn't be happy about handing over a model) so the unit isn't locked in assault or they immediately attack the unit they are with, then die. Both would be niche and characterful without being as OP a one shot killing a paladin with a hammer then have him smash some other pallies.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The reason I don' think see will balance is because the mind control will never be fair or practical. I personally wouldn't want someone touching my models with grubby fingers no matter the rules, and it also means you can tie up any unit by simply killing a model and forcing them to kill that in assault instead of doing what you want. IG heavy wapons getting you down? Hit on 2's (-2 BS matter very little past BS 5) and wound on 4's (the only part I think might be balancing) and instant kill it. Then he comes back and locks them in assault.

The rest isn't too bad, but I just feel that its tying to much into one rifle. 2 wounds is OK I guess, and a *type* of mind control might be applicable, but both is a bit silly. Maybe because I don't know the fluff of these 'gals'. IF you wanted to keep the mind control It would be more practical that the model either leaves the unit (still wouldn't be happy about handing over a model) so the unit isn't locked in assault or they immediately attack the unit they are with, then die. Both would be niche and characterful without being as OP a one shot killing a paladin with a hammer then have him smash some other pallies.

Thanks for your answer. For the mind control I got inspired by the fluff. By the way also the mind in the Machine (anrakyr) allows the enemy to touch your models (just to fire once with one weapon, that's true).

By the way I notice that the rule is still not clear, there is a misunderstanding:
first you hit on a 2+, then you wound on a 4+ (as for all the snipers), then you control the enemy on a 4+, otherwise he is just dead as usual. I will rephrase the rule to be clearer.

Maybe you are right, to get the model automatically locked in combat is probably too much. Let's say he cannot perform any action in the ongoing player turn (Mortaria's controlling player one). (i.e. normally he will be just shot down by his former friends in the following turn). But I will re-balance in Mortaria favour changing the needed value from 4+ to 3+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
===================
Mortaria Noctis


Mortaria Noctis (upgrade character (unique) for the hitman squad)
replace an hitman for 130 points
WS4,BS6,S3,T3,W2,I5,A2,Ld10,Sv4+
Noctis rifle, blackskin
Junker guard, Fearless, Move through cover.

blackskin: Sv 4+
Noctis rifle: 36" str X* AP 1 Type Heavy1, Sniper.

*The Noctis rifle inflicts 2 wounds instead of just 1 on any non vehicle model wounded (you still need to wound on a 4+ as for any sniper weapon). Against vehicles it has an Armour Penetration of 4d6.
If a model is killed by the Noctis Rilfe roll a d6. If the result is 1 or 2 it is retired from play as usual. On a 3+ the model is not removed from play, but it is instead controlled by the Mortaria's controlling player (with one wound left). If the model was part of a unit it has to be placed at 3" from the unit he was part of. In the ongoing Mortaria's player turn he cannot perform any action.
Wounds caused by the noctis rifle are allocated by the Mortaria's controlling player.
===================

PS what do you think of the Aleksandr Kurganov rules?
here the fluff:
Aleksandr Kurganov is deeply loved and seen as the good father of the Kurgan nation.

His courage and his integrity have always stood in contrast with the corrupt and greedy Kurgan high society and political milieu.

But his life would mean little to him without his 3 daughters, Olga, Ivanka and Malinka, and his wife, the supreme ruler of the Kurgans.

Universally praised as a military genius, Aleksandr outdoes himself when he works in sync with his three daughters.
Together, they are capable of hatching the cleverest strategies and achieving the most outstanding wins.

It was Aleksandr who gave a puppy to his daughters, for Malinka's 10th birthday.
Although nobody quite knows where Charlie the war bulldog came from, or why he's always wearing the hats of military heroes of ancient times...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How come his blackskin is better then assasins skin (6+ FnP) when it sounds like only a latex fetish costume.

Obviously you have no concept of Fantasy armour.

RAVEN The Freedom Fighter



The Freedom Fighter of the Jailbirds could only be their leader, as all their lives are about getting free from the Kurganova's clutches.

So, meet Raven the Chain Breaker, supreme leader of the Jailbirds. Even more than a prisoner, Raven used to be a gladiator slave who fought for a powerful family of the Kurganova realm. Through her prowess in the arena and her cunning intelligence, she became some sort of star among the Kurganova society. But all this was part of her careful plans to achieve freedom for her and her cohorts.

The 'Raven Uprising', as it was later called, was the first episode of massive jailbreaks on the Kurganova prison planet.

Raven was then able to unite the fleeing Jailbirds and to raid enough Kurganova military supplies to form a small but strong army that have vowed to keep on harassing the Kurganova forces until their prisons are empty.

=============
HQ
RAVEN The Freedom Fighter
Independent character (unique) 80 points

WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W3, I4, A3,Ld9,Sv6+
Improvised armour, a pair or long barrel pistols, broken chains, frag and krak grenades.
Jungle fighters, Move through cover, Hit and run, Scout, Acute Senses.

Long barrel pistol: 18", S3, AP 6, pistol.

Broken chains: from the Raven's controlling player turn in wich the model has been deployed all the models with the Jungle fighters special rule benefit of the effects of the rule Hatred (Imperium). The effects last also if the model is retired from play.
=============



Difficult to find a reference for this profile because of the scout (and outflak) and the hit and run. Let's try with:

Wolf guard battle leader + Hunter. more or less 80 points
DE Baron: more or less 100 points

but btw the differences are realy important in both cases. I need your help



Ilsa Wolfenstein
Automatically Appended Next Post:



Ilsa Wolfenstein, Commander-in-Chief of the Iron Empire army. She is a one-of-a-kind leader, as she will not wait behind the lines but will jump right into the fray, seemingly invulnerable. She had her giant claws specially made for her so that she could engage in melee with the terrible Kurganova were-creatures.

Independent character (unique) 100 points

WS5,BS3,S3,T3,W3, I4, A3,Ld10,Sv4+
A pair of lighting claws, carapace armour, enhanced regeneration system, frag and krak grenades.
Junker guard, Stubborn.

Enhanced regeneration system: the model benefit from the effects of the rule It will not die.

Price of an inquisitor without psyk-out grenades 25, a pair of lighting claws (estimated 15+15), WS+1, BS-1, It will not die and feel no pain 6+ (estimated 45 points).

Oh, much more understandable. Maybe you could let the still shoot so it isn't too nurfed. + It doesn't precision shot often so more then not you are having a single bolter guy.

Wolfenstein seems fun, but a bit underwhelming. I mean she is killing 2 marines a turn at best, which isn't bad, but for a bad ass commander she could be better. For example give her Furious Charge, Melta bombs and the 5+ invul thing clock it in at 110pts, just think what other armies could do with those points? A cheaper Succubus would kick her ass!

Likewise the Raven isn't very strong either. By calling the first character a bit on the too good side doesn't mean the others have to be weak! For a hero, a 6+ save is really weak, she at LEAST deserves a 5+. Also those pistols look a lot like shotguns, so should have strength 4 and maybe something unique like doing d3 overwatch hits instead of shooting both pistols to represent the solid slug spread shot.

thank you guys for the help.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Oh, much more understandable. Maybe you could let the still shoot so it isn't too nurfed. + It doesn't precision shot often so more then not you are having a single bolter guy.

Wolfenstein seems fun, but a bit underwhelming. I mean she is killing 2 marines a turn at best, which isn't bad, but for a bad ass commander she could be better. For example give her Furious Charge, Melta bombs and the 5+ invul thing clock it in at 110pts, just think what other armies could do with those points? A cheaper Succubus would kick her ass!

Likewise the Raven isn't very strong either. By calling the first character a bit on the too good side doesn't mean the others have to be weak! For a hero, a 6+ save is really weak, she at LEAST deserves a 5+. Also those pistols look a lot like shotguns, so should have strength 4 and maybe something unique like doing d3 overwatch hits instead of shooting both pistols to represent the solid slug spread shot.

Mortaria:
Notice that, as for the vindicare, she targets the model she wants and (as for the vindicare) she has AP1. So (neglecting invulnerabilities) 28% of the times she will shot down your 2wounds left HQ.

Wolfenstein:
She already has FNP6+ and It will not die...that (expect for instant death) is nice. I can buff her a little but not too much, I wanna keep her cheap (in the end she is a human with regeneration implants). so giving her rage (for a better mob control) will be fine...I hope (for the same price).

Raven:
She is not a strong bare fighter, I agree.
For the Sv: she only wears rags, if you consider also the special rule Jungle fighters (shrouded and a -1(worst) armour sv) to have a 5+ she should wear a carapace armour...and also if you forget about the -1 malus she is neither wearing a flak armour. I could give her an invulnerability instead. As

Lucky girl: thanks to her luck she dodges shots and blows effortlessly. The model has a 6+ invulnerability save.
About the weapons: I thought about a special rule allowing her to treat her 2 shotguns as pistols: so 4 shots at 12", and two h2h weapons to have an extra attack...but it sounded to me too much freaky. Maybe I was wrong...I give it back to her. By the way she has simple shotguns str3 and not space marines shotguns str4.
By the way her role is to outflank (inside of a veteran unit), move in cover and harass the enemy (also thanks to hit and run).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
=======
a proposition to replace the veteran squad and the infantry platoon:
TROOPS
Veteran multirole squad (2-10, 7 points per model)
veteran multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A1,Ld7,Sv5+
commander multirole WS4,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A2,Ld8,Sv5+
sergeant multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W1,I3,A2,Ld8,Sv5+
weapons team multirole WS3,BS4,S3,T3,W2,I3,A2,Ld7,Sv5+
veteran commissar WS4,BS5,S3,T3,W2,I3,A2,Ld10,Sv5+

Flak armour, lasgun and laspistol (veteran commissar has bolt pistol and close combat weapon instead), frag and krak grenades.
Daredevils, stubborn/summary execution (veteran commissar only), Junior officier (commander multirole only).

Options:
The squad may be joined by a veteran commissar for 50 points
One veteran may be promoted sergeant for 10 points or be promoted to commander multirole for 15 points
One veteran may have Medi-pack for 30 points
One veteran may have vox-caster for 5 points
Up to 3 other veterans may replace their lasgun with:
-flamer or sniper rifle for 5 points
-metlagun for 10 points
Replace two veterans with a weapon team armed with one of the following:
-Mortar for 5 points
-Heavy bolter for 10 points
-Missile launcher or assault cannon for 15 points
-Plasma cannon for 20 points
The squad may chose between:
-replace its flak armour with carapace armour for 3 points per model
-take camo-cloacks and snare mines for 3 points per model

I'd be fine versing the majority of the units here, most seem fair enough to me. I feel that the HQs are too expensive though. Take Aleksandr for example. He's got a very similar statline to a normal Company Commander but with +1 Ld and attacks IIRC yet he costs a lot more. With four 7pt vets in a 50pt CCS you could say that leaves 22pts to the company commander. He doesn't seem worth 75 to me as he doesn't bring any benefit to other units. Creed gives you 4 orders, straken gives a furious charge bubble + something else, cant remember. Anyway, the main point is that he costs more but doesn't bring any more benefit than a regular Commander and he's hardly a CC machine.

I would either consider making him like a commissar lord with the aura of discipline or some variant of that, maybe even similar to Yarrick? But then if you want him in a CCS type unit, I'd look at some sort of benefit he can bring like Creed or Straken does. But TBH fitting in theme with him, I think a lord commissar would be better, could even make it like a commissar CCS so its around 100pts for a LC+4 vets that can take the usual upgrades.

I also feel thats a similar case with the other special characters. If I was to relate them to a special character from the IG book, I'd say Aleksandr -> Creed, Raven -> Harker and Ilsa -> Straken. I'd use those dudes as a guide then just tailor them as a bit for your theme. Then maybe Ilsa can be your very own woman of adamantium.

 rahxephon wrote:
I'd be fine versing the majority of the units here, most seem fair enough to me. I feel that the HQs are too expensive though. Take Aleksandr for example. He's got a very similar statline to a normal Company Commander but with +1 Ld and attacks IIRC yet he costs a lot more. With four 7pt vets in a 50pt CCS you could say that leaves 22pts to the company commander. He doesn't seem worth 75 to me as he doesn't bring any benefit to other units. Creed gives you 4 orders, straken gives a furious charge bubble + something else, cant remember. Anyway, the main point is that he costs more but doesn't bring any more benefit than a regular Commander and he's hardly a CC machine.

I would either consider making him like a commissar lord with the aura of discipline or some variant of that, maybe even similar to Yarrick? But then if you want him in a CCS type unit, I'd look at some sort of benefit he can bring like Creed or Straken does. But TBH fitting in theme with him, I think a lord commissar would be better, could even make it like a commissar CCS so its around 100pts for a LC+4 vets that can take the usual upgrades.

I also feel thats a similar case with the other special characters. If I was to relate them to a special character from the IG book, I'd say Aleksandr -> Creed, Raven -> Harker and Ilsa -> Straken. I'd use those dudes as a guide then just tailor them as a bit for your theme. Then maybe Ilsa can be your very own woman of adamantium.

Thanks for the reply. I will work on it later (maybe this evening), btw for harker I already had another unique character in mind.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
=====================
for the point calculation for Aleksandr:
as a reference extimate the price of a company commander without the veterans, with a rosarius (estimed 25 points), bolt pistol, power mace, carapace armour, and give him zealot and ethernal warrior and give him krak granades. 22+25+2+10+5+4+something=68+something. So I said 75.
I think you are right, maybe the simple math I did is not enough...giving him all those equip does not make him a CC machine and he is still a mean commander.
I already have three more characters (his daughters) that look like a commissar...so for him we stay on the CCS style. let's try giving him Supreme Commander instead of Senior Officer, but let's increase his points cost to 100 points.
================
for Raven for the same points cost I can increase the strength of the shotgun (dumdum bullets like) +1, AP 6, and increase the inv save to 5+...
===============
for Ilsa let's give her (like for Straken) better S and T. IMO more than a SM (4 and 4) could be too much for her...
===============
please let me know what do you think of those changes.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS
the last version of the profiles is the one showed in the first post.

=================================
Drusilla Lepic


Drusilla Lepic (reference Saint Celestine)
Independent character (unique) 115 points

WS5, BS5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4, Ld10, Sv4+
Carapace armour, Nano spiders, frag and krak grenades, jump pack, twin linked assault stubber.
Junker guard, Stubborn, Lucky girl.

Nano spiders: each time Drusilla is retired from play put a marker in the position in which she has been killed. In the next Drusilla's controlling player turn throw a dice. On a 4+ she comes back with d3 wounds and can act normally. If the result is 1 she is definitely retired from play and the enemy earns 1 kill point.

Neuroschock gloves: at the beginning of each assault phase the controlling player must chose between the following profiles:
electric shock: Str User, AP 5, +3 Attacks
magnetic shoc: Str User x 2 AP 2, Unwieldy

Assault stubber:
Range 24" Str 5 AP 5, Assault 3

I'm not quite sure about the gloves...maybe is better give up with the CC idea and make a buffer/strategist of her...

Sergio Tulkas wrote:
=================================
Drusilla Lepic


Drusilla Lepic (reference Saint Celestine)
Independent character (unique) 115 points

WS5, BS5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4, Ld10, Sv4+
Carapace armour, Nano spiders, frag and krak grenades, jump pack, twin linked assault stubber.
Junker guard, Stubborn, Lucky girl.

Nano spiders: each time Drusilla is retired from play put a marker in the position in which she has been killed. In the next Drusilla's controlling player turn throw a dice. On a 4+ she comes back with d3 wounds and can act normally. If the result is 1 she is definitely retired from play and the enemy earns 1 kill point.

Neuroschock gloves: at the beginning of each assault phase the controlling player must chose between the following profiles:
electric shock: Str User, AP 5, +3 Attacks
magnetic shoc: Str User x 2 AP 2, Unwieldy

Assault stubber:
Range 24" Str 5 AP 5, Assault 3

I'm not quite sure about the gloves...maybe is better give up with the CC idea and make a buffer/strategist of her...

I am not very found of my CC version. Now that she has her own jetpack soldiers made available let's try something more tactical with nice experimental bullets:

Drusilla Lepic
Independent character (unique) 115 points

WS4, BS5, S3, T3, W3, I5, A4, Ld10, Sv4+
Carapace armour, frag and krak grenades, jump pack, twin linked autogun with donner bullets, refractor field.
Junker guard, Fearless, Hit and run, Master of the Zeppelin insertion, scoring unit.

Master of the Zeppelin insertion: the model must arrive in game by deep strike. When the Drusilla's controlling player rolls for her unit to arrive from reserves he can add 1 or subtract 2 the the dice result. When arriving by deep strike Drusilla's controlling player subtract her BS for the scatter disance.

Jet girls
Fast attack (2-10, 15 points per model)

WS3, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, Ld8, Sv4+
Carapace armour, frag and krak grenades, jump pack, twin linked autogun with donner bullets.
Junker guard.

autogun with donner bullets:
range 24", Str 4, AP 3, Rapid fire, Gets Hot.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cyber zombies bodyguard (as a reference inquisitorial servitor)



Cyber zombies
Elite (2-10, 12 points per model)

Zombie WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I1, A1, Ld8, Sv4+
Embalmer(character) WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I3, A1, Ld9, Sv5+

Carapace armour (zombie), Heavy bolter (zombie), flak armour (embalmer), autopistol (embalmer).
Junker guard, groteske marionette (zombie).
Options:
an Embalmer may join the unit for 20 points.


groteske marionette: If the unit does not contains also a character (or independant character), roll a D6 at the beginning of each friendly turn. On a 4+ everything the can act normally, otherwise the unit automatically goes to ground and cannot shot that turn.

The beast within (Yaga Soul-Weaver power)
Warp charge 2

The beast within is a blessing that targets a single friendly unit with the Warriors of ice special rule within 24". Count the number of characters (or independent characters) in the unit. Do not take Aleksandr Kurganov in the count. Place at 3" or less from the unit a number of wereshewolves equal to the number or characters. The unit is immediately retired from play conferring KPs (as if the unit and the independent characters were killed) to the enemy player.



ELITE
Wereshewolf (monstrous creature) (note that they are supposed to be more of less the size of a daemon prince), 145 points
WS6,BS3,S6,T5,W4,I6,A4,Ld8,Sv4+
thick furry skin, fangs and claws.
Warriors of ice, Monstrous beast, Rampage, Rage, Eternal warrior, Feel no pain, It will not die.

thick furry skin: sv 4+
fangs and claws: counts as a single close combat weapon.
Monstrous beast: the model can move up to 12" in the movement phase and is not slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging).