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Ofc, the wounds are 4,5 and 6... not 1-6.

Thanks Redemption!

 wilsjur wrote:
My only problem with them outside the serpent is that they are very vulnerable, and when they are in the serpent they are quite invulnerable.

I lost a WS to 1 shot at the weekend, after letting off the shield.
Of the 10-man squad, 8 went down to the explosion.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 wilsjur wrote:
My only problem with them outside the serpent is that they are very vulnerable, and when they are in the serpent they are quite invulnerable.

I lost a WS to 1 shot at the weekend, after letting off the shield.
Of the 10-man squad, 8 went down to the explosion.

Guardian Defenders or Dire Avengers.
If you have non-loaded dice, I'd opt for Guardian Defenders.

They were Dire Avengers. Forgot to say.
I blamed bad rolls too, but it happens. Too often to my DAs.

 Skinnereal wrote:
They were Dire Avengers. Forgot to say.
I blamed bad rolls too, but it happens. Too often to my DAs.

Too bad, but a 4+ armor save is nothing to really count on.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 wilsjur wrote:
My only problem with them outside the serpent is that they are very vulnerable, and when they are in the serpent they are quite invulnerable.

I lost a WS to 1 shot at the weekend, after letting off the shield.
Of the 10-man squad, 8 went down to the explosion.

That's why you should keep the Serpent Shield on. It's not just a gun!

Yeah, wilsjur makes a good point. Don't be tempted to fire off that shield while you still have your passengers onboard. Afterwards? Fair game.

Thank you!

It's true, and makes perfect sense. The vehicle is so good FIRST because of the shield while up, and also because combined with scatter lasers, when emptied out it is a nasty laser-locked mook-hunter.

Isn't bladestorm AP2 based on to wound rolls?

Not quite... you don't get the AP2 bonus against vehicles if I recall correctly. In any case, Dire Avengers and Guardians now all benefit from it so it's not an advantage over either.

minigun762 wrote:Isn't bladestorm AP2 based on to wound rolls?

Super Ready wrote:Not quite... you don't get the AP2 bonus against vehicles

So...


...yes.

Sorry, the mathhammer on the previous page made it seem like the AP2 was coming from to hit rolls, which increased the assumed damage.

Re: Serpent Shield - The big advantage of Dire Avengers, it seems to me, is that you can move up the Serpents 6" on the first turn, dismount the Avengers, then the Avengers can move up 6" from the rear of the Serpent (call this ~3" in front of the Serpent, given a partial pivot, and then they have the option of running before shooting. So they get an effective first turn range of 27" without having to use Battle Focus, and they expect ~31.5" with it. That's only 3" more than DAs on foot, but that's a valuable 3" and may make the difference between having to Run before shooting and being able to dodge back behind cover.

By comparison, it's really hard to hit the enemy with Guardians on the first turn, since you're losing 6" from those numbers. You pretty much need to expose rear armor, and that prevents the Serpent from shooting several of its guns.

And the big advantage of unloading the DAs early is that you can then fire the Serpent Shield with near-impunity. You're putting out 10 S4, 7 S6, and ~4.5 S7 shots, and you expect to kill 5 MEQs outside of cover with that volley. That's quite a lot of first turn damage for 210 points of Troops. Guardians get you more firepower when they do exit the Serpent, but they're not doing that until Turn 2, and that puts a big limit on the kind of firepower you can bring to bear in Turn 1. GJBs are similarly disadvantaged - they can only bring their cannons to bear on an enemy that starts just over 24" away.

I also feel like DA 4+ saves are actually pretty nice in a Mech army. There's not a whole lot of AP4 weaponry that isn't also pretty good for trying to take down the Serpent that still has Scytheguard inside. Nobody's going to shoot an autocannon or a missile pod at your 5-man DA squad with that other threat hanging around. But a 5+ save is going to be a tempting target for anything without a decent AT weapon.

I would be weary of relying too heavily on expensive 4+, T3 models. Dire Avengers are good but pricey and in a meta of Heldrakes and anti-infantry galore, i'd probably keep them to a minimum.

Also, in my experience if you use Serpents, you are best off putting Guardians in them. More shots is always nice. Especially since they are also BS4.