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Hello fellow Dakkadakkaians. As a few of you know I have been posting ideas for my second 40k army as my Elysian IG are nearing completion. Wanting to do a xenos army I have been toying with Tau, Orks and Eldar to name a few. However due to the local meta already brimming with multiples of each of those armies I am taking a look at Tyranids because, well there are NONE.

Now from some research on here and from a friend (who is one of the best Tyranid players I have ever seen) he introduced me to the Tervigon spam "monster mash" list that according to him is really the only way to be very competitive with this book. Me being me, I have to make it more risky and since I have always loved drop pod armies I got to thinking, why not a Tyranid Mycetic Spore list? Just curous as to what you guys think and if there are anyways to run a competitive version of this list, I have one I have pointed up that I will be posting after this so let me know what you think.

The problem lies with not being able to assault out of those pods. Since tyranids are generally an assault army, that makes it a bit harder.

Pods got buffed so now they can deploy 6 inches out of the pod.
This means Doom is epic.

The problem previously with the old 3 inch(?) deployment radius was that you couldn't take more than 15 Devilgants and be able to get line of sight to the target.
I think you should be able to get perhaps 20 with Line of sight.

If you go all drop pods the importance is Alpha strike because if you do not deal with primary targets you can get overswept due to the points consumption you wasted on the pods.

Also controlling your reserves will be hugely important, your stuff coming on in dribs and drabs is what your opponent wants to happen.

It is possible, but try all reserves not just Pods. You're going to want two Flyrants, at least one of whom should have Hive Commander. Also, I usually don't reccomend it for bugs, but you may want an Aegis line, for the Comms Relay. If you're going to play Nids, you have to have everything arrive at once.

Then, you're going to need a healthy mix of shooty/assaulty units coming in. Pick and choose from the following:

Flyrants with Devourers (24" move plus 18" guns should = dead transports)
Doom in a SPod. He's just that good.
Zoeys in a Pod (Anti Land Raider if its there, if not try Psychic Shriek to just kill things.)
Dakkafex in a Drop Pod
Devilgants in a Pod
Ymgarl Genestealers, cause you'll need some assaulty fun.
Trygons, they don't scatter
Mawlocs, when they scatter it kills enemies.

Also, try outflanking one Tervigon. They're just so good, you really need one. I say outflank to fit the reserve theme, but it may not be needed. You could always start him on the table.

One last thing...

RIPPER SWARMS

Wait, what? Probably the second-worst unit in the codex, but try slapping three ebhind an Aegis line on a Comms relay. Completely out of Line of Sight most times, even if he can see, you have at least a 3++ cover for stealth + Aegis, and very cheap to hold down the fort.

 jifel wrote:
It is possible, but try all reserves not just Pods. You're going to want two Flyrants, at least one of whom should have Hive Commander. Also, I usually don't reccomend it for bugs, but you may want an Aegis line, for the Comms Relay. If you're going to play Nids, you have to have everything arrive at once.

Then, you're going to need a healthy mix of shooty/assaulty units coming in. Pick and choose from the following:

Flyrants with Devourers (24" move plus 18" guns should = dead transports)
Doom in a SPod. He's just that good.
Zoeys in a Pod (Anti Land Raider if its there, if not try Psychic Shriek to just kill things.)
Dakkafex in a Drop Pod
Devilgants in a Pod
Ymgarl Genestealers, cause you'll need some assaulty fun.
Trygons, they don't scatter
Mawlocs, when they scatter it kills enemies.

Also, try outflanking one Tervigon. They're just so good, you really need one. I say outflank to fit the reserve theme, but it may not be needed. You could always start him on the table.

One last thing...

RIPPER SWARMS

Wait, what? Probably the second-worst unit in the codex, but try slapping three ebhind an Aegis line on a Comms relay. Completely out of Line of Sight most times, even if he can see, you have at least a 3++ cover for stealth + Aegis, and very cheap to hold down the fort.

Unless Im reading this wrong, dont you have to start atleast 50% of your army on the table turn 1?

DW Armies are all deep striking unless you bring a few tac marines. As far as I can tell you don`t need to.

No, you just need to have something on the board at the end of each turn otherwise you auto lose...

 Billagio wrote:

Unless Im reading this wrong, dont you have to start atleast 50% of your army on the table turn 1?

You are correct. However, this isnt counting Spores or the units inside them, as both must stay in start in reserves. So I could just keep 10 gants and 2x3 Rippers on the table, all hiding out of LoS, while 2 Flyrants, 10 Ymgarls and a Mawloc go into reserves, plus every Mycetic Spore unit.

 jifel wrote:

Also, try outflanking one Tervigon. They're just so good, you really need one. I say outflank to fit the reserve theme, but it may not be needed. You could always start him on the table.

One last thing...

RIPPER SWARMS

Wait, what? Probably the second-worst unit in the codex, but try slapping three ebhind an Aegis line on a Comms relay. Completely out of Line of Sight most times, even if he can see, you have at least a 3++ cover for stealth + Aegis, and very cheap to hold down the fort.

Nids cannot take any fortifications from what I remember so I am afraid that this would not work.

 gmaleron wrote:

 jifel wrote:

Also, try outflanking one Tervigon. They're just so good, you really need one. I say outflank to fit the reserve theme, but it may not be needed. You could always start him on the table.

One last thing...

RIPPER SWARMS

Wait, what? Probably the second-worst unit in the codex, but try slapping three ebhind an Aegis line on a Comms relay. Completely out of Line of Sight most times, even if he can see, you have at least a 3++ cover for stealth + Aegis, and very cheap to hold down the fort.

Nids cannot take any fortifications from what I remember so I am afraid that this would not work.

Tyranids can take any fortification. They can't shoot the weapons on them, but they don't have to. Comms relays are not weapons and so can be operated.

Darn it, I now have visions of tyranid rippers in little miniature imperial guard helmets sitting back behind an aegis line smoking cigarettes and chatting on the com relay to their brood back in orbit.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Darn it, I now have visions of tyranid rippers in little miniature imperial guard helmets sitting back behind an aegis line smoking cigarettes and chatting on the com relay to their brood back in orbit.

Great, time to start converting my Rippers to have IG helmets and cigars...

 Happyjew wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Darn it, I now have visions of tyranid rippers in little miniature imperial guard helmets sitting back behind an aegis line smoking cigarettes and chatting on the com relay to their brood back in orbit.

Great, time to start converting my Rippers to have IG helmets and cigars...

Awesome.

You can hide Rippers completely out of LOS behind and Aegis right? That's about the best idea for Rippers I've ever heard.

Reserve heavy Tyranids aren't quite as strong as the standard triple Tervigon build, especially when scoring is concerned, but they're still doable and are actually more effective vs gunline armies in my experience.

A friend of mine doesnt have the money to get all the tervigons for a pure competitive list but he does run doom in a pod and usually 2-4 20 man devilgaunt pods. The amount of shots this units puts out will really cause an insane amount of vounds. Yes this list wouldnt be great against armor, or tank heavy lists but any armies that are foot heavy struggle greatly. My friend also ran 1-2 flyrants with the build as well as some hive guard for a little range support, after that I cant remember, it was a 1850-2k list, cant remember.

But to be honest as I play gunline guard this list was really hard to beat as turn 2 there was a lot of units on my side of the table in my face lol. Ymargl genestealers would be great to disrupt things when they pop up and just assault a unit lol.

Couple things I see of in this thread so far:

First, the Triple Trevi build while tough is not really the most competitive simple becuase it has serious slow play issue. Dual Trevi+ Dual Tyrants is a bit stronger build.

Rippers are cheap but start dieing as soon as out of synapse, so are a questionable unit for holding the comm relay. They do make a heck of a tarpit, since they do not have to test for IB while in assault.

Podded Devilguants are an evil unit with 60 shots on arrival and can use the pod for cover. Since pods are MC's and not vehicles you can get Linebreaker with them.

Triple Tervigon is dual Flyrant & dual Tervigon, with 1 more Tervigon.

As above, a good Mycetic list will have many (usually not all because of points constraints) of the following elements:

#1-2 winged Tyrants with Devourers and Old Adversary/Hive Commander
- These units serve three functions, i) Hive Commander brings your forces in earlier, ii) Devourers open up transports and crack harder targets, and iii) Old Adversary is a huge buff to Devilgaunt shooting
- Also very useful to have on the table at the start, hidden from view to satisfy your "must always have models on the table" rule

# Zoanthropes (with Spore)
- flexible in the extreme, Zoanthropes can throw blessings (with Biomancy or Telekinesis), crack armour (Warp Lance), provide Synapse and can use Shadows to shut down enemy psykers

# Ymgarls
- Spore lists are often light on the melee power, and Ymgarls do an awful lot to counter this

# Doom (with Spore)
- Very hit-or-miss, but like all cruise missile units, it can take a huge chunk out of whatever it lands near before being pulled down. Very dependent on who you're facing, and so not to everyone's taste

# Devilgaunts (with Spore)
- The heart of the list, 60 S4 shots a turn per unit almost guaranteed. Infantry evaporate in front of them, but like all fragile shooters they are terrible in melee. Place them carefully and in sufficient bulk to eliminate all nearby threats. A great unit though.

# Tervigon
- Two purposes to a Tervigon in lists like this, very different from one another; i) run as cheap as possible with Catalyst and camp a backfield objective from cover (spawning Termagants and throwing Catalyst on Devilgaunts if you can), or ii) load it up with everything and use Hive Commander to outflank it, then be extremely aggressive.

# Devilfex (with Spore)
- Very under-rated, these work really well with Devilgaunts and you should never under-estimate how useful a high strength MC can be when most of your list is designed to kill infantry

I agree, 1 or 2 Flyrants is a must in a reserve heavy list, they add a lot and don't decrease your turn 2 strike damage thanks to their mobility.

A Trygon is also good, as you don't have the usual concern of your opponent focussing it down when it deep strikes thanks to all the other units they'll have to deal with, plus, like Ymgarls, it adds a good melee threat to an otherwise shooty list.

Also, you may have forgotten the fine print, but don't forget your fast attack slots! If it has wings, it can deep strike. For the price of one deepstriking group of 20 devilgants, you can buy two groups of 20 deepstriking Gargoyles. Now, if you really want to have some laughs, drop a second Flyrant and grab the Parasite. Most people don't even remember what it can do, but hide it in one big brood of Gargoyles and make it your warlord for extra attention. Keep it in assault (Should be easy, since most people will be more than happy to charge something that seems so weak!) and watch the fun occur. Remember to challenge and you should wind up with a sizable tarpit for a minimum of 2-3 turns with his abilities.

Deepstriking 20 Gargoyles? I also like to live dangerously.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Deepstriking 20 Gargoyles? I also like to live dangerously.

My thoughts too. You know i don't use gargoyles that much. I just always see them as slightly more expensive termagants

 Hyrule Hero wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Deepstriking 20 Gargoyles? I also like to live dangerously.

My thoughts too. You know i don't use gargoyles that much. I just always see them as slightly more expensive termagants

That's one way to look at that them, the other way is as Hormagaunts that traded 1 attack, a couple of special rules and scything talons for a fleshborer, 12 inch movement, cheaper upgrades and blinding venom.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Hyrule Hero wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Deepstriking 20 Gargoyles? I also like to live dangerously.

My thoughts too. You know i don't use gargoyles that much. I just always see them as slightly more expensive termagants

That's one way to look at that them, the other way is as Hormagaunts that traded 1 attack, a couple of special rules and scything talons for a fleshborer, 12 inch movement, cheaper upgrades and blinding venom.

That...is a very good point.
TOO THE PROXY-MOBILE!!!

Now from some research on here and from a friend (who is one of the best Tyranid players I have ever seen) he introduced me to the Tervigon spam "monster mash" list that according to him is really the only way to be very competitive with this book. Me being me, I have to make it more risky and since I have always loved drop pod armies I got to thinking, why not a Tyranid Mycetic Spore list? Just curous as to what you guys think and if there are anyways to run a competitive version of this list, I have one I have pointed up that I will be posting after this so let me know what you think.

Some points for your consideration:

1) Its been said by some but not elaborated on, and seemingly ignored by others -- there's two restrictions to reserve based armies you must keep in mind.

You have to have 50% of your units that aren't required to be in reserve to be deployed at the start of the game. So anything not in a spore will have to be considered.

Additionally, you can lose if at the end of a game turn you have no units on the table.

So relying on a unit of rippers behind an aegis line to stay alive until turn 2 is a bad idea, as there are numerous armies that can get them despite no LOS.

Thus when making a list that is primarily reserve and spore based you need to consider carefully what units are holding down the fort for a turn. The most common I see are two flying hive tyrants and at least one tervigon. You could also bury the parasite or a tyranid prime in some gribblies if you are opposed to the ubiquitous flying tyrants (more on that below). Swarmlord isn't a bad idea either. Or some mix of the all things mentioned.

2) There's a couple of rough matchups but Tau are probably the biggest issue currently. The amount of intercepting shots they can pack in is pretty brutal. I know many drop pod players have switched play style due to Tau. Then throw in FW stuff into the mix and its even worse.

3) For the unit selection, I'd reiterate what xyptc, PrinceRaven and others have said. I'd throw in a couple other units to consider though too.

--Mawlocs cause they are cheap for a 6W MC and can also play some shenanigans with your reserve requirements (place them on the board as part of the 50% deployed, then burrow em). They aren't great, mind you, but the new smash rules help them a bit (they are only 1 less attack then a smashing trygon) and their popup attack is more effective with all these blobs, mobs and deck chair units. The overall winner of the local min-major GT (Alan pajama-pants, the teamamerica alumn) ran them in his reserve based Tyranid list and by all accounts they worked well.

--Deathleaper. Homer for your scattering deepstrikers, a nice little debuff against a key psycher, triksy at getting linebreaker or contesting objectives. Can beat up on MSU units and is a relative pain in the ass. He's very tool boxy though and probably not worth his points, but can be quite fun too.

--Warriors. I hesitate mentioning them as they are simply not even mid tier but can offer a mix of shooting and counter assault while providing synpase which isn't horrible. If the damn tyranid prime could ride in their spore then I'd consider them (and him) in a list like this but as is its hard to justify them.

Hope that helps

 Hyrule Hero wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Hyrule Hero wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Deepstriking 20 Gargoyles? I also like to live dangerously.

My thoughts too. You know i don't use gargoyles that much. I just always see them as slightly more expensive termagants

That's one way to look at that them, the other way is as Hormagaunts that traded 1 attack, a couple of special rules and scything talons for a fleshborer, 12 inch movement, cheaper upgrades and blinding venom.

That...is a very good point.
TOO THE PROXY-MOBILE!!!

If your going to bring Gargoyles, you bring more than a single grouping. 2 groups of 20 minimum. It's not to compensate for any supposed weakness or anything, it's the shock factor. 40+ Gargoyles in your enemy's deployment zone tends to make them lose focus rather quickly. It's a "Oh " moment, you know?