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Skyfire in BRB says: A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule (aka the Flak Cannons) fires using its normal ballistic skill when shooting at fliers. RAI i would say absolutely not, but English language makes this sound like ....

A: am i firing weapon with this special rule? - Yes
B: "fires" using.... Does not specify "fires that weapon using"....
C: permissive rules set (not sure if this qualifies)

anyway thought it was an interesting topic as i'm taking 2 Hydra's in my list.

When firing the Hydra Autocannon you are "firing a weapon with this special rule".
When firing the Heavy Bolter, you are firing a weapon without this special rule.

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Skyfire in BRB says: A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule (aka the Flak Cannons) fires using its normal ballistic skill when shooting at fliers. RAI i would say absolutely not, but English language makes this sound like ....

A: am i firing weapon with this special rule? - Yes
B: "fires" using.... Does not specify "fires that weapon using"....
C: permissive rules set (not sure if this qualifies)

anyway thought it was an interesting topic as i'm taking 2 Hydra's in my list.

Do hydra heavy bolters have this special rule?

The FAQ is needed to answer this one, seeing both skyfire and flyers are new rules not addressed in older codex's. On page three they have outlined what changes they wish to make to the Hydra Flak Tank, giving the autocannon itself skyfire and making nullify the effects of Jinx. As the skyfire rule has been given to one of the weapons, and not the whole tank, any other weapons on the hydra can not benefit from the skyfire rule.

This is a very good thing for the Hydra Flak Tank as it does not have interceptor and having some weapons that can fire at more then BS 1, when targeting ground troops, gives it a slim chance at least.

JinxDragon wrote:
The FAQ is needed to answer this one, seeing both skyfire and flyers are new rules not addressed in older codex's. On page three they have outlined what changes they wish to make to the Hydra Flak Tank, giving the autocannon itself skyfire and making nullify the effects of Jinx. As the skyfire rule has been given to one of the weapons, and not the whole tank, any other weapons on the hydra can not benefit from the skyfire rule.

This is a very good thing for the Hydra Flak Tank as it does not have interceptor and having some weapons that can fire at more then BS 1, when targeting ground troops, gives it a slim chance at least.

FAQ is not needed.

Pre-6th edition, skyfire didn't exist. It was added to the autocannons, not the tank so you can fire them at flying targets at full bs and the hvy bolter at bs1, or fire at ground targets with bs1 and the hvy bolter at full bs. Since the weapon profiles were altered for the new edition, it's fairly obvious that the end result was intentional.

Which is why I said the FAQ is needed, the Imperial Guard one in particular, as that is where the information is found.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
The FAQ is needed to answer this one

FAQ is not needed.

Pre-6th edition, skyfire didn't exist. It was added to the autocannons, not the tank so you can fire them at flying targets at full bs and the hvy bolter at bs1, or fire at ground targets with bs1 and the hvy bolter at full bs. Since the weapon profiles were altered for the new edition, it's fairly obvious that the end result was intentional.

I think Jinx meant, "You must read the FAQ to properly answer this question, since the answer is in there"; he did not mean, "Gee howdy, I wish GW would answer this question in a FAQ!"

Yeah got it. I thought he meant the needed to FAQ it.

Ah, understandable mistake given how often I butcher the English language.

This one is pretty straight forward and works in the benefit of the Hydra. I would hate to see the mess it would become if the FAQ team got their hands on it because they might end up making the whole thing have to skyfire. I do not have much of a high regard for whomever answers the FAQ's as they often pick the most stupid questions and/or put forth answers that dramatically change the way rules work in a way that makes even less sense then the books.

The FAQ is *not* needed to answer this question. It is rather simple: does a heavy bolter have skyfire? nope.

I disagree.

The Hydra Flak Tank could of been given the skyfire rule at the model level instead of having it assigned to any individual weapon. This would of meant the heavy bolter, even normally void of the skyfire rule, would also have been granted Skyfire. The only way to tell how the skyfire rule was being applied to the Hydra Flack Tank would be to check the rules.

In this case those rules are only found within the Imperial Guard FAQ.

The old IG FAQ(2 revisions ago, the First 6th FAQ/Errata/Amendments) gave the hydra Skyfire.

Skyfire is a rule that counts for weapons or models with the rule.

The very first 6th edition FAQ made the heavy bolter also fire with the skyfire rules(as the model had it).

This error has been corrected, but noone is Stupid(etc) for asking about it as they(or their opponents) might still remember the first FAQ classifying the model as having skyfire.

It is only the Hydra autocannons that have Skyfire per appendix 2, and the current(unnecessary) FAQ.

I'm looking at the BRB right now. The Auto Cannon does NOT have skyfire. The Hydra Auto Cannon DOES have skyfire.The heavy bolter on a Hydra flak tank would not have skyfire. If the all the weapons on the Hydra had skyfire, then the heavy flamer you could have instead of the heavy bolter would have skyfire, and the Heavy Stubbers and the Storm Bolters on the pintle mounts would have skyfire also.

Interestingly, all weapons on the Hydra, including the Heavy Bolter, benefit from ignoring Jink saves.