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Ok with the new rulebook and the new Tau codex who do you think are more of shooty now in 40k, Tau or Guard?

They are both shooty in different ways... its impossible to say which is simply "more".'....... Guard puts out more shots but Tau puts out high strength more accurate shots but there are less of them so it depends how you would define "shooty"

And the Tau tend to hit more, and ignore your cover too.

"Quantity has a quality all its own" - Joseph Stalin

I disagree with Somedude.

Guard have less shots and tend to be of the more quality variety. Tau on the other hand have a much higher volume of shots.

Look at the HYMP Broadside. 4 Str. 7 shots, 4 Str. 5 shots. The HBC Riptide has 8-12 Str 6 shots.

Guard tend to have a little more barrage/templating than Tau do. Which means a higher ceiling for damage, but a lower floor. In my experience, Tau tend to be a little more reliable with their shooting.

 LValx wrote:
I disagree with Somedude

Look at the HYMP Broadside. 4 Str. 7 shots, 4 Str. 5 shots. The HBC Riptide has 8-12 Str 6 shots.

Punisher MBT 23- 29 str 5 (bolter boated) , we also have a 50 man squad that gives 100-150 str 3 shots a turn that comes back from the dead..... dont cherry pick units.... were talking about in general.. also guard quality? spamming vets is not our only list type

 Somedude593 wrote:

 LValx wrote:
I disagree with Somedude

Look at the HYMP Broadside. 4 Str. 7 shots, 4 Str. 5 shots. The HBC Riptide has 8-12 Str 6 shots.

Punisher MBT 23- 29 str 5 (bolter boated) , we also have a 50 man squad that gives 100-150 str 3 shots a turn that comes back from the dead..... dont cherry pick units.... were talking about in general.. also guard quality? spamming vets is not our only list type

Plus going off that. Tudd gun. lot of templets for a cheap price. or out T7 W3 85point earth shaker batteries.

Tau, and by a long shot.

For small arms, firewarriors have basically rapid fire heavy bolters, while guardsmen have lasguns, and firewarriors are cheap enough to bring an awful lot of them. For heavy weapons, tau bring a lot more multi-shot high-S weapons, which are great against vehicles and monstrous creatures, while guard is stuck with a lot of heavy 1 weapons with blast templates that don't work well against things in ruins, or that are displaced, and can't even target fliers. For special weapons, the imperial guard can certainly bring more quantity, but the tau ones are much better quality, tending to be twin-linked and attached to deepstrikers.

And that's before you consider armywide buffs like super-overwatch, cover-ignoring, night-fight-ignoring, interceptor everything, and the ability for easily spammable markerlights to boost the BS of other units.

In a head-on matchup, the guard player gets to face off against riptides, which they don't have a great counter for, and a cheeky unit that casts psychic powers without the risk of perils, and without the ability to deny the witch to do things like make that punisher suffer from gets hot, and a S10 Ap1 BS5 twin-linked anti-guard tank of death that comes on a platform with a permanent 4+ cover save. Meanwhile, foot guard melt away like snow to the blowtorch as 30" S5 Ap5 shots ignore cover saves.

As best I can tell, the one thing guard does decidedly better is lascannon spam, otherwise they get outshot.

But it's really not just tau, the myth of guard shooting supremacy really hasn't aged well. Leafblowers were a hell of a thing when they first came out, but every subsequent codex that has come out has seriously depleted whatever serious advantages they once held in shooting.

 Somedude593 wrote:

 LValx wrote:
I disagree with Somedude

Look at the HYMP Broadside. 4 Str. 7 shots, 4 Str. 5 shots. The HBC Riptide has 8-12 Str 6 shots.

Punisher MBT 23- 29 str 5 (bolter boated) , we also have a 50 man squad that gives 100-150 str 3 shots a turn that comes back from the dead..... dont cherry pick units.... were talking about in general.. also guard quality? spamming vets is not our only list type

What are common Guard shooting platforms? Vendettas, Sabres, Manticores and other artillery. All those guns offer less RoF.

That Punisher tank is extremely expensive. 3 Broadsides will put out 24 shots, but at a higher average str and with half of them ignoring cover (as well as twin linked). Tau also have the ability to multiply their shooting (Ethereals), boost BS through Markers and Ignore cover army wide.

Tau shoot better, IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ailaros and I agree on something!!

I agree completely that Guard shooting is overstated and that Lascannon spam is one of the few things they do better than other codices. Artillery too, but artillery has some accuracy issues, which has always turn me off of them a bit (good players can also mitigate damage easily by staying in area terrain and maxing coherency).