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Getting back into the game after a long break and I want a list that can take on most anything while also nullifying a solid bit of the points spent from my opponent's TAC list (You spent X points on AA/Interceptor/AT? Cool, I have no Flyers/DS/Tanks.) - I seem to remember that being a very viable strategy from my days of playing where you'd just find the most broken thing in the codex and spam the hell out of it.

With that in mind, I'm thinking Riptide spam. The Riptide may not dish out as much firepower as a similarly priced Crisis Team, but it's extremely durable and, with the right gear, can do just about anything.

So here's 1750pts of :

Ethereal

Ethereal

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Hammerhead
+Submunitions
+SMS
+Blacksun Filter

Hammerhead
+Submunitions
+SMS
+Blacksun Filter

Riptides are AA, Interceptor, take care of Heavy and Light Infantry, MCs, Light Armor, and in a pinch can take out Heavy Armor - all of that in a very hard-to-kill package. 3 seem like they'd be a nightmare for pretty much anything.

Hammerheads are there to shore-up the Riptide's only weakness - Heavy Armor - but can also be used to drop blobs of Light Infantry.

Firewarriors hold the line and take objectives.

Pathfinders shoot MLs.

Ethereals keep your dudes right where you want them.

What are your thoughts on a list like this? Does it have any really bad MUs? Any suggestions at all from experienced tournament players?

First of all, the list as you wrote it is 1622 points. Did you forget something, or did you mess up the math?

I am assuming you Riptides all have TL-FB (it's free...), otherwise Velocity Tracker makes no sense.

You will need an ADL for sure, to cover those FWs and Hammerheads (and pathfinders too, that are probably going to be the first targets since they are fragile and boost Riptides quite a bit). Guns ore optional, you already have plenty of Interceptor, you will take ADL mainly for the cover.

I would drop one Ethereal, you will use only one Invocation anyway (FnP if the enemy is far, double shots if it's close), two of them means just one potentially additional Victory Point for your opponent. If you really, REALLY want two invocations a turn, for the exact same points you can get Aun'va (i think he is not a great choice, but he's much better than 2 Ethereals).

Since you have spare points, why not Dpods on Hammerheads? An AV13 vehicle with 3+ cover save is HARD to kill... even though i must say i don't like Hammerheads (in the list i write, Skyrays are just superior), but they are a must-have in this list because you lack something that will reliably deal with heavy tanks. If your meta is very AV14 intensve, you can consider Longstrike too, for his nice Tank Hunter rule (and BS5. The Support Fire rule he adds is a joke).

Alternatively, dropping one Ethereal, one Pathfinders unit and 2 FWs you can get a Commander with dual missile pods, target lock, drone controller and 2 marker drones, plus a unit of 4 marker drones to go with him. A bit of extra firepower (good mainly vs light vehicles), an expensive but very effective ML source, but expecially one that doesn't die very easily: since they can move before and after shooting you can keep them out of sight. This will guarantee you will have ML support for at least most of the game... a smart opponent will know that you rely a lot on MLs for those pieplates, and will target Pathfinders first.

Teschio wrote:
First of all, the list as you wrote it is 1622 points. Did you forget something, or did you mess up the math?

I am assuming you Riptides all have TL-FB (it's free...), otherwise Velocity Tracker makes no sense.

You will need an ADL for sure, to cover those FWs and Hammerheads (and pathfinders too, that are probably going to be the first targets since they are fragile and boost Riptides quite a bit). Guns ore optional, you already have plenty of Interceptor, you will take ADL mainly for the cover.

I would drop one Ethereal, you will use only one Invocation anyway (FnP if the enemy is far, double shots if it's close), two of them means just one potentially additional Victory Point for your opponent. If you really, REALLY want two invocations a turn, for the exact same points you can get Aun'va (i think he is not a great choice, but he's much better than 2 Ethereals).

Since you have spare points, why not Dpods on Hammerheads? An AV13 vehicle with 3+ cover save is HARD to kill... even though i must say i don't like Hammerheads (in the list i write, Skyrays are just superior), but they are a must-have in this list because you lack something that will reliably deal with heavy tanks. If your meta is very AV14 intensve, you can consider Longstrike too, for his nice Tank Hunter rule (and BS5. The Support Fire rule he adds is a joke).

Alternatively, dropping one Ethereal, one Pathfinders unit and 2 FWs you can get a Commander with dual missile pods, target lock, drone controller and 2 marker drones, plus a unit of 4 marker drones to go with him. A bit of extra firepower (good mainly vs light vehicles), an expensive but very effective ML source, but expecially one that doesn't die very easily: since they can move before and after shooting you can keep them out of sight. This will guarantee you will have ML support for at least most of the game... a smart opponent will know that you rely a lot on MLs for those pieplates, and will target Pathfinders first.

I'll edit the original list, but I left out a FW squad and had 20pts left over that I didn't really know what to do with besides just putting a DPod on one of the tanks.

Also, the Riptides would have TL Fusion Blasters.

2 Ethereals aren't there for 2 powers as much as the ability to cover my whole line with their benefits without putting my entire army into a 12" radius bubble - a real concern with 60 FWs.

If I replaced the HHs in the list with Sky Rays, I'd have the 50pts for an Aegis Defense Line. That would also give me 4 more (less vulnerable) MLs.

So new list would look like:

Ethereal

Ethereal

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Firewarrior Team (12)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Pathfinder Team (6)

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+TL Fusion Blaster
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+TL Fusion Blaster
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Riptide
+Ion Accelerator
+TL Fusion Blaster
+Early Warning Override
+Velocity Tracker

Sky Ray Gunship
+SMS
+Blacksun Filter

Sky Ray Gunship
+SMS
+Blacksun Filter

Aegis Defense Line

Teschio's advice is good.

redthirst wrote:
2 Ethereals aren't there for 2 powers as much as the ability to cover my whole line with their benefits without putting my entire army into a 12" radius bubble - a real concern with 60 FWs.

12" radius ought not to be a problem, especially since Support Fire is rather key to not getting assaulted, I don't think spreading out so much is advisable. Using about 24", you can simply be sure to feed/string out your lines, so that each of the 5 FWs units is within the 1 ethereal's bubble.

Thinking about, then again, maybe the dual bubble is really solidifies the gun line.

I see a 2nd ethereal HQ as a wasted opportunity of a Ballistic Skill 5 set of guns.

I think you should get some kroot in there. Only 7 pts with sniper rounds.

20 with sniper and 1 hound is only 145... Awesome outflank unit. Or hide them behind the line for cover!

Well, when two people who know more than me (I'm assuming) tell me I need to drop something, I guess I should drop it.

So dropping the Ethereal gives me 50pts, and dropping a FW squad (since I don't want so many crammed into one small area) gives me another 108.

I'm thinking that 2 Sky Rays means I don't need to rely on the Riptides for AA so I can drop the Targeting Arrays for an additional 60pts.

For some more AT, I could replace a Riptide (which is completely against the premise of the whole list, but w/e) for a squad of 3 Crisis Suits with double Fusion Blasters and a couple of Target Locks - which seem like they could do a good job of DSing in and wrecking up the place against armor. Additionally, that'll net me another 24pts for a total of 242pts.

242pts could get me a Commander + Bodyguard as long as I don't go too crazy with the upgrades, or could be a 2 guy Broadside Team + Missile Drones + 54pts for whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icelord wrote:
I think you should get some kroot in there. Only 7 pts with sniper rounds.

20 with sniper and 1 hound is only 145... Awesome outflank unit. Or hide them behind the line for cover!

Originally when I picked up the Codex to get back into the game I was dead-set on playing this exact unit, but it seems like it'd be good at one thing: killing little dudes - which doesn't look like it'd be a problem for the rest of the list.

Like I said, I'm just getting back into the game so my ideas are all theory - which is why I'd like ideas before I go out a buy a bunch of new stuff, but is that squad really needed when the list has so many things that'll just wreck infantry?

Lmk because, if I do need it, I can drop 12 FWs and use some of the points I have extra to include it.

I havent played Tau since mid-4th Ed.

what is so great about taking 1 Kroot hound?

Well kroot have outflank. The hound has acute senses and the whole unit benefits allowing you to reroll the dice seeig what side you enter. It's quite good.

 Icelord wrote:
It's quite good.

The "problem" is that nearly everything else in the Codex is quite good too... which, if you're going to have a problem anyway, is probably one of the better ones to have.