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 Anpu42 wrote:

My Land Raider horror Story:

Spoiler:

We were playing a Spearhead Game and one of the players took an Ork Gargant and a bucket of Grot Tanks. I had two Land Raiders, the first was a Crusader Loaded with my Captain and a Plasma armed Sternguard, the second was a God-Hammer with Melta armed Sternguard.
Our side of the of the table was an urban environment forcing me to run up this road. I hit an intersection with the Crusader in front and around the corner were the Grot Tanks. I miss the Trot Tanks; they on the other hand get that 1 in a million shot and Blow up the Crusader leaving a crater. Well the next turn my second Land Raider was forced to run though the Crater, and of course I roll a “1” and get tracked. So for the rest of the game I spend it with my Sternguard trying to hide from the Gargant’s Pie Plates [For some reason the other player considered them more of a threat than the Dreadnaught Company advancing on him] and me firing at 40” with one Twin-Linked Las-Cannon.

Story of the day.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I do like all three

Land Raider “God-Hammer”: I don’t use it a lot, but when I use one it usually dominates the game. The Range of the Las-Cannons lets me kill most things quickly. With my Grey Knights and the Special Ammo it gets good vs. transports and makes the Storm Bolters deadly to.

Land Raider Crusader: I have not used it with my Dark Angles yet, but I love it with my Loganwing. I usually get into the center of the table and get immobilized, but then everything within 24” starts to look for cover.

Land Raider Redeemer: I love the Redeemer, it instills Fear in most of my opponents getting allot of fire in its direction. With Extra Armor and Smoke I usually make it across the table. I have even gotten to fire both Flamers on the same squad a few times.

Best Redeemer Story Ever [at least for my group]:

Spoiler:

I was playing my Loganwing vs. Chaos Marines. I Tank-Shocked Khorne Berserker Squad witch wrapped them around the Redeemer, then I fired off both Flamers catching the Khorne Berserkers, part of a Raptor Squad on the Right and some regular Chaos Marines on the Left. Then I used the Power of the Machine Spirit to feed a Chaos Dreadnaught with the Assault Cannon and Multi Melta taking it out is a massive explosion.
Body Count:
8 Khorne Berserker
5 Raptors
6 Chaos Marines
1 Chaos Dreadnaught

I will probably never do this again ever, ever.

My Land Raider horror Story:

Spoiler:

We were playing a Spearhead Game and one of the players took an Ork Gargant and a bucket of Grot Tanks. I had two Land Raiders, the first was a Crusader Loaded with my Captain and a Plasma armed Sternguard, the second was a God-Hammer with Melta armed Sternguard.
Our side of the of the table was an urban environment forcing me to run up this road. I hit an intersection with the Crusader in front and around the corner were the Grot Tanks. I miss the Trot Tanks; they on the other hand get that 1 in a million shot and Blow up the Crusader leaving a crater. Well the next turn my second Land Raider was forced to run though the Crater, and of course I roll a “1” and get tracked. So for the rest of the game I spend it with my Sternguard trying to hide from the Gargant’s Pie Plates [For some reason the other player considered them more of a threat than the Dreadnaught Company advancing on him] and me firing at 40” with one Twin-Linked Las-Cannon.

You should have either had "Angels of death" from DOW2 playing when the Redeemer was doing it's work or had "Die motherf*cker die" playing while laughing at the roasting heretics.

Good stories.

In general, how tough are people finding AV14? Either using one yourself or being on the receiving end.

My horror story:

I won to go first. He didn't steal. It's hammer and anvil. I try driving over a crater the first turn. I roll a 1. Fak. Don't worry, I have Dozer blades. I roll a 1. Fak fak. I measure, all enemy models 25" away from LRC. Fak-fak-fak! Sigh. Well played crater, well played.

I like my LRC. If deployed appropriately and counter-deployed from their melta/armorbane weapons, it'll do the job you want it to do. I like them, but they are extremely hefty on points. Then again, I run two because, well, I love the model.

 minigun762 wrote:
Good stories.

In general, how tough are people finding AV14? Either using one yourself or being on the receiving end.

Well in my local group it has been sort of one sided. I am the only one with Land Raiders [one of each of the base 3].
However my primary opponent [a Marine player] has a Devastator Squad and multiple Dreadnaughts with Multi-Meltas. He also has a number of Thunder Hammers and uses Melta-Bombs.
With his Orks lots of Nobs with Power Claws, Dreads along with lots of Grot Tanks.
His Nids are one of the ones that struggle, though his Tervigon could do a number along with buckets of Genestealers.

Myself, it depends on the Army:
Space Wolves: Power Fist, Thunderlords and Melta-Guns. My Long Fangs have got Las-Cannons and Missile Launchers [I know ML’s are not a great choice, but you use what you got.]

Blood Angels: Lots of Infernus Pistols and Melta-Bombs.

Dark Angels: Deathwing

Grey Knights: Nemesis Hammers and Pie from the Sky.

Imperial Guard: Pie from the Sky, Artillery and a Vanquisher with Pask.

When I am facing LRs my ideology is generally...they open themselves up.

I personally have never played an opponent that didn't get his unit out of a LR at one point or another...once they open up...kill the insides.

I've played a number of games with my old Triple-Raider list where I never bothered to disembark my guys out of the Land Raiders, effectively tabling my opponents with only half my army, simply because they did not prepare for AV14. Conversely, I've been decimated by "lucky" melta hits that kept rolling box cars, exploding my big boxes!

SJ

I have though about taking some Redeemers or Crusaders as dedicated Transports for my Blood Angels Assault Squads [without Jump Packs] and using them as mobile Drop Pods for one of our larger games.
Either that or Death Company.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I have though about taking some Redeemers or Crusaders as dedicated Transports for my Blood Angels Assault Squads [without Jump Packs] and using them as mobile Drop Pods for one of our larger games.
Either that or Death Company.

I've always been intrigued by the notion of deep striking Land Raiders, yet have not tried the tactic. Seems like it could go wrong in a hurry with today's meta, yet has that aggressiveness you need sometimes to break a tough opponent.

SJ

What's funny is that in today's meta I'm looking at taking triple land raiders more often. The ability to ignore wave serpent and tau fire is very helpful.

While some serpents will bring bright lances or will be full of dragons, they will also become your primary targets.

Why do you continuously mention the strength of AV14 versus Tau's Firepower. They have the longest range melta range in the game (outside of FW). And most LRs sole purpose is to move closer to the enemy.

Hmm, on another note, why would you deep strike a LR? The whole point of running a LR is the attempt at a Turn2 assault. If you deep strike, on Turn2 (not guaranteeing it will even come on), you won't be able to assault until the next phase. On top of that, when you deep strike you count as being moved so you'd only be able to shoot 1 weapon at full BS (2 if you include PotMS).

That sounds awful. Cool, but awful.

Saythings wrote:
That sounds awful. Cool, but awful.

That would be the point, just think of the look on your opponents face when those 3 Land Raiders that have been sitting in reserve for 3 turn land in the middle of his backfield!

 labmouse42 wrote:
What's funny is that in today's meta I'm looking at taking triple land raiders more often. The ability to ignore wave serpent and tau fire is very helpful.

While some serpents will bring bright lances or will be full of dragons, they will also become your primary targets.

Plus a smart player can always use the firepower of the stock Raider to weaken significant threats before they counter assault the remnants.

You are not obligated to drive straight towards the enemy starting turn one.

@minigun; You aren't obligated to drive straight towards the enemy, but if they contents are CC-oriented, you kind of are... lol.

Otherwise you're wasting not only 250+ points from the landraider, but the 200+ points on their contents. If its a Godhammer holding scouts for lategame, then I'd argue otherwise.

If you're holding 500 points for backfield shooting? Why don't you just put Shooting Terminators on a Quadgun. Essentially the same thing, with essentially the same wasted points.

I get you're point saythings but I don't believe it's quite so cut and dry.

People argue that short range melta kills the Raider when you drive forward so instead, use those guns to kill those melta squads on turn 1&2. Now you can assault the remainder of their army and you aren't sacrificing your Raider to do so. The added presence of that Land Raider throughout the remainder of the game could be worth more than getting into assault a few turns earlier.

Or not, but you do have that option.

I can certainly see the argument of using LRs at this point instead of being ROFL-owned by a wall of STR 5,6,7 shots coming from Eldar/ Tau lists. I only own one LRC at this juncture, and I very hesitant to pour more money into this game/hobby.

Then there's the problem that Necrons ROFL-stomp LR spam and IG air cav out guns it badly. I imagine Tyranid psychic choir isn't too healthy either.

I'd argue that Necrons don't "ROFL-stomp" LR spam. I run two Land Raiders and my brother runs Necrons. Most guass guns on competitive lists only come from the warriors in scythes. They usually don't poke their heads out until the end of the game as well. He did manage to glance one to death by Turn 4. But that was way after it was necessary. He only did it cause he can't resist shooting at it for some reason, lol.

Maybe you fight Necron players that stack warriors, but the more competitive lists have a severe lack of guass and tend to bring more telsa (on Flyers and Barges mostly).

As for IG, my friend constantly runs 4 Vendettas in his lists with 3 LCs each. He's spent games glancing and trying to pen my LRs before with no luck. 5+ to glance is rough, and he has to position himself perfectly otherwise he drops to hover-mode if he wants two round on the LR. It's simply not worth it.

Most armies can ignore them. Their firepower is incredibly low for their point costs. They tend to "make up" for their point value when I hide weakened scoring squads in them until Turn5 where they can cap late-game objectives.

Just beware of the Harbinger of the Storm Crypteks in the Necron Army. a 5 man warrior unit with a stormtek can rip off 4+ hull points per turn. Short range, so they're suicide units, but usually worth it to take out a LR.

I often use 3 or 4 of these units (in scythes) just in case my enemy decides to bring a LR or two.

As a matter of fact I played against a LR spam list in a tournament recently and even with the 4++ Dark Angels thingy, I was able to take both LR fairly easily.

Saythings wrote:
Why do you continuously mention the strength of AV14 versus Tau's Firepower. They have the longest range melta range in the game (outside of FW). And most LRs sole purpose is to move closer to the enemy..

Do they have another melta weapon other than the Fusion blaster? That only has a 9" threat range -- hardly something to be concerned about. If I am missing a melta weapon that the Tau have, please let me know.
Also, are not multi-meltas melta guns with a longer range?

The land raider list I am thinking of is not a delivery system for TH/SS terminators. Instead its CSM (which I own) utilizing the 230 point godhammers that they have. The idea is to delivery the troops (probably plague marines) to mid board and then offer fire support. The land raiders can act as mobile bunkers when needed, assault platforms when needed, las cannon boats when needed, or just LOS blockers.

The reason is they can help to answer a lot of the problems that power armored troops have. They can protect against helldrakes. They can deliver marines into assault when needed. They can shoot at flyers (with a reasonable chance of hitting) Right now in the meta is the time for triple CSM land raider lists to be viable, and I think its worth trying out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saythings wrote:
@minigun; You aren't obligated to drive straight towards the enemy, but if they contents are CC-oriented, you kind of are... lol.

Otherwise you're wasting not only 250+ points from the landraider, but the 200+ points on their contents. If its a Godhammer holding scouts for lategame, then I'd argue otherwise.

If you're holding 500 points for backfield shooting? Why don't you just put Shooting Terminators on a Quadgun. Essentially the same thing, with essentially the same wasted points.

I think that's the problem. You have LR=terminators in your head.

You can use LRs for mid-board delivery. Drive up on turn 1, then drop your cargo off on turn 2 and stand behind them and shoot. Be there to drive away if something like Ghaz comes up and knocks on your door.

landraider nightmare for me involved my brothers dark angel list, most of my antitank was sunk but he only had half a tactical squad left while my side was fairly infanty full, what does he do, land raider pulls up alongside praticaly dead tactical squad and then tack shocks his way into my deployment zone earnig him linebreaker points and winning him the game!!!!!

grrrrrrr

Saythings wrote:
Why do you continuously mention the strength of AV14 versus Tau's Firepower. They have the longest range melta range in the game (outside of FW). And most LRs sole purpose is to move closer to the enemy.

Not true. Orks, my friend, have the longest range Melta weapon in the game. (36".) But isn't the Multi-melta Longer range as well? I'm not sure why 18" is a lot to brag about.

I spaced out on the MM for some reason. You're right about the range, but a 9" threat range on a model that can move anywhere from 6" to 2d6" is scary. Even to a midfield LR. (Depending on the deployment type).

CSM might be the only army that plays the way you mentioned it. Most armies bring LRs to bring an assault aspect to their list. I pointed out that some armies can put small squads inside or get discounted ones like BA, but then they are using them as durable Rhinos. Even ones armed with Lascannons are rarely going to make up the points of 230+.

If you want Lascannons there are plenty of other ways of getting them. I just pointed out that their main function is to get "Close" to the enemy and quickly. If you're not getting there by Turn2, then there are other ways of getting midfield for much cheaper.

If you don't plan on assaulting out of the LR then don't bring an assault vehicle. Yes, the other options aren't as durable, but you can bring a lot more for less points and the same function.

I don't use my LRCs for Terminators, I use them for my 14-man BT squads +HQ. They carry my troops and assault early game. Then I use them to hide weakened troop squads to survive for late game. But assaulting with an assault vehicle makes the most sense.

You can drive Plague Marines up with Rhinos for midfield pressure and shoot out of them even. They can be destroyed easier, but they did their primary job already. They gave your models the midfield position and you save 200 points. 200 points for a gunboat seems a little steep.

You can use a Land Raider in all the ways you mentioned, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying I'd argue it's primary job is to assault. I think your paying a premium price for a less than optimal job.

I have to agree that the land raider is extremely pricey, and it is durable, but makes for a poor alpha strike.

Saythings wrote:
If you don't plan on assaulting out of the LR then don't bring an assault vehicle. Yes, the other options aren't as durable, but you can bring a lot more for less points and the same function.

This is the way you should look at the CSM LR. Compare it to taking a predator and a rhino. Now the LR has twin linked LCs, so its hitting 8/9 of the time instead of 2/3 of the time. This means that has about 1.5 times the actual LC firepower of the normal predator. The HB is inferior to the AC, but the TL guns mean they can hit flyers 30% of the time -- which is why I rate the LR as 1.5* the firepower of a predator.
35 points - Rhino
120 points - Predator with dual LC and HB.
60 points - 1/2 Predator firepower
Total Cost : 215 points.
The base CSM LR is 230 points, so the way I look at it is like this -- the land raider costs 15 points to give me an AV 14 transport when I need it.

Saythings wrote:
You can drive Plague Marines up with Rhinos for midfield pressure and shoot out of them even. They can be destroyed easier, but they did their primary job already. They gave your models the midfield position and you save 200 points. 200 points for a gunboat seems a little steep.

Its the flexibility that your paying for.
Lets say that I'm playing a triple helldrake list. I don't want to drop out my 3 squads of PMs on the board, but instead I want to keep them hidden for a turn while I take pot shots at the drakes. 6 LCs mean I should hit with 2 LCs per turn. If they are playing a beast pack/necron ally list, then I can use my PMs to get engaged with beasts or Wraiths. (You would be surprised at how good PMs can be at killing those)

Saythings wrote:
You can use a Land Raider in all the ways you mentioned, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying I'd argue it's primary job is to assault. I think your paying a premium price for a less than optimal job.

Rhinos are not land raiders. Rhinos will evaporate when facing necrons. Rhinos will evaporate when facing Tau. Rhinos are death traps if there are helldrakes on the board.

A land raiders primary job is not assault. Its an assault vehicle, but that does not mean its primary role is assault. The land raider is actually a multi-purpose vehicle.

I'm not saying that triple CSM land raiders is full of win. What I'm saying is that I'm considering running it in today's meta. I'm going to try a few test games and if I like it Ill bring it to NOVA this year.

Good luck.

Thanks. Are you going to be there?

Not this year, I switched from Nids to BTs, so I'm in a transitional period. Need to finish painting almost my entire army!

Maybe next year when I have everything painted and hopefully by that time BT will have their new codex. One can dream...

Currently I do have 2 LRCs in my army though. But personally, as a BT player, Godhammers don't make any sense for me to get. I agree that CSM LRs have their own purpose. And would also point out that each codex will have their own use for the Land Raider (of any variety).

Part of it may simply be that CSMs have less flexibility on what type of Land Raider they use but more options for it's cargo.

In 5th Edition the Crusader was king because its Hurricane Bolters were considered defensive weapons (S4) and allowed them to shoot on the move.

In 6th Edition they've lost some luster because the defensive weapons rule was eliminated for Snap Fire, but each has their benefit.

IMO the best variant for this edition the base pattern Land Raider with twin linked lascannons.

Saythings wrote:
Why do you continuously mention the strength of AV14 versus Tau's Firepower. They have the longest range melta range in the game (outside of FW). And most LRs sole purpose is to move closer to the enemy.

Hmm, on another note, why would you deep strike a LR? The whole point of running a LR is the attempt at a Turn2 assault. If you deep strike, on Turn2 (not guaranteeing it will even come on), you won't be able to assault until the next phase. On top of that, when you deep strike you count as being moved so you'd only be able to shoot 1 weapon at full BS (2 if you include PotMS).

That sounds awful. Cool, but awful.

For what it is worth, pre-measuring has made it much, much easier to keep a LR alive. You know the range of melta and the range of movement, just skirt any melta weapons.

LRs are viable but I fear that they depend very heavily on going second as the squads inside will usually be pretty small or flimsy (assuming you are bringing 3+ LRs). I also think playing with 3+ LRs isn't very entertaining as it often comes down to whether or not your opponent can pop 3 Tanks. To each their own though!