Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm very new to this game, having played perhaps three games with loaner armies, and I'm finally ready to do one of my own.

I have the allied half of two Open Fire boxes, and a limited but not non-existant ability to add other stuff, and from this I'm hoping to run a Late War 1650 point US Tank/mostly tank list for a Normandy themed local tournament next month - ideally without being totally crushed. But I don't know where to start... don't even know what book I need for this.

Currently got; 12 Shermans, 4 Fireflies, and what I can sadly only refer to as a "crapload of US Paratroopers".

Can someone help me out here? Point me in the right direction?

Firstly those fireflies aren't US issue, the Yanks stick to the standard Shermans, but you've got 12 of those and I'd say that's a pretty good start.

There's compilation books for LW. The bizzarely named 'Atlantik Wall' for Axis and 'Overlord' for Allies, they deal with the invasion of Normandy up until September '44 where the Market Garden books take over. They'll give you everything you need to plan out an army from this period.

If you're in Auckland I have Normandy Germans and I'm looking to get back into FoW after a break since the previous edition, so I'm probably not the best practice partner for a tourney I can guarantee you won't get totally crushed, in fact a historical result is quite likely

Drop me a PM if you're interested!

Very keen, got nothing but time atm since I'm on uni break

If you want to use all the minatures out of Open fire starter sets, as a British and American combined army**.
The 11th armoured division in the Market Garden book is a good place to start.(It used to be a free to download PDF it may still be available.)
I would recommend looking at EasyArmy.com.
Its a *free army building site approved by Battle front.(*All PDF lists and Forces book lists are free.)

I would recommend fielding armoured units with infantry , recce, and artillery and/or air support.

(The Fireflys are a bit too odd looking to be used in American lists for some**.)

I'm limited to Turning Tide, Overlord, Earth and Steel and Atlantic Wall - out of which I only have access to Turning Tide, so sadly a Market Garden list won't work here.

Hi Dakkamite.
I have just checked on Battlefronts website.
11th Armoured Division and Grenadier Guards FREE to download Briefings are still on the site.
Both of these lists allow US paras with British Shermans

And both lists are still free to use on EasyArmy.com under the PDF listings.
(If you are interested....)

I took a look on easyarmy for it and couldn't find it.

Looked under USA/Tank, but no luck

That's because 11th armoured and grenadiers are UK/tank

Click here

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2596

Then go to the bottom of the page and you can download the .pdf

Use this list, play get experience and then decide what to buy. There is no substitute for experience and this isn't a Meta-type game.

Doesn't sound like the 11th armoured list will be valid for the constraints of the tourney he is looking into. It is obviously Normandy based and the british armour and US paras didn't work together until Market Garden. So he'll need to look more closely at an appropriate US armored list with infantry support.

I'd offer one up myself, but have never played the US so haven't a clue.

Skriker

I have several Fireflies, which just look to me like Shermans with a big gun. Is there anything distinguishing these appearance-wise from the American big gun upgrade (76mm?) for their Sherman units?

Fireflies typically have a box (which I've been told is different things, if someone can come along and correct me) on the back of the turret making the turret longer

EDIT: And I think the Firefly gun is longer than a 76mm and they have a different muzzle brake

Here's a Sherman Firefly:



Here's an American, er, Russian Sherman with a 76mm gun...



And for comparison, an American Sherman "Eazy 8"....

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have several Fireflies, which just look to me like Shermans with a big gun. Is there anything distinguishing these appearance-wise from the American big gun upgrade (76mm?) for their Sherman units?

Two differences:

The box on the back of the turret, which is no biggie to me, but the primary difference is that the 76mm sherman has an obviously different turrent style because of the new gun and the 76mm gun is not long barreled like the firefly. You can easily remove the turret box and cut the barrel back to use the fireflies as regular sherman M4A1s, though.

Forgot the easy 8s had a longer barreled gun. My US forces ignorance showing through. Apologies.

Skriker

So I ran a 14 Sherman med. tank company today and got steamrolled by bad dice and Kongstigers (or w/e, the enormous super tiger)

My opponent suggested I try an INF/Arty list and I went with Canadian Rangers with 105mm, 155mm, and Naval artillery as well as some kind of aircraft. It utterly steamrolled the other guy, but theres a catch; these types of no movement, plonk stuff on the table and roll dice armies are the reason I'm moving out of Warhammer 40k, and its the last way I want to play this game.

I did love being able to put 490 points on the table for next to nothing $-wise with naval arty and aircraft, but I need something more... interactive. Any ideas?

If you like shermans and fancy a more interesting way of playing my two choices would be

1) Canadian armoured recce from market garden

You get stealthy tanks with integrated high AT and lots of good support options.

2) US shermans from 'blood guys and glory' you have all manner of Sherman sub types and spearhead for you guys

 Dakkamite wrote:
So I ran a 14 Sherman med. tank company today and got steamrolled by bad dice and Kongstigers (or w/e, the enormous super tiger)

My opponent suggested I try an INF/Arty list and I went with Canadian Rangers with 105mm, 155mm, and Naval artillery as well as some kind of aircraft. It utterly steamrolled the other guy, but theres a catch; these types of no movement, plonk stuff on the table and roll dice armies are the reason I'm moving out of Warhammer 40k, and its the last way I want to play this game.

I did love being able to put 490 points on the table for next to nothing $-wise with naval arty and aircraft, but I need something more... interactive. Any ideas?

Running straight shermans vs. Tigers is a crap shoot. If the dice go your way you can do well. If not it can really be terrible. You need to use maneuverability to get around and behind the big boys to not be taking shots at their front armor. If the dice don't go your way, or you try a full frontal assault you will lose plain and simple. Gun to gun, front to front the tigers should win every time. Better range, better penetration and better armor protection. There are multiple versions of the sherman that appear in the Blood, Guts and Glory book. Some have better armor, some have better guns and they add some variation to what a sherman company can do. Of course manuever is still necessary against the big boys. King tigers are slow and you can readily outnumber them, and a 4-5 to 1 ratio of shermans to tigers is generally what was needed to deal with them.

On the artillery/infantry force side it sounds like the dice definitely went in your favor in that game. I am a brit player and the brits get all kinds of artillery usage bonuses, which the Canadians as commonwealth forces get as well, which generally do me no good because I have never found my artillery rolling to be effective at all. Even when I have enough guns on the table to reroll my failures I still end up with minimal results. So don't excpect it to win the game for you every time. FoW does favor the player who uses combined arms forces, though. Some armor/mech forces, infantry and artillery combine well to cover most bases on the table top and they are designed to work together.

If your play style is more important to you than your end results then look at an armored company supported by self propelled artillery units using M7 Priests and further supported by mobile infantry in halftracks. Your force can be as mobile as you want and the M7s can even take more of a direct fire role as well. Only play armored or mechanized forces and your army will need to be mobile. This will limit the number of units you have that can dig in to defend against enemy attacks, though. Infantry, especially elite infantry, are hard to dislodge once they are dug in around objectives. This is vitally important when defending. For late war I usually play british paras that dig in with their guns and then wait to unleash hell on the enemy when they get close enough. The force is very effective in a defensive roll, but is BORING as all heck to play in more than one game a week. I definitely feel your pain, as in EW and MW I far prefer light cavalry forces that run circles around the enemy and when I forced to dig in and hold for an entire game I want to fall asleep.

Skriker

Go for Armoured Recce Tank Regiments. British Cromwells or US Cavalry lists e.g CHAFFEE's.





Always move, move, move to the Enemy, get behind that front armour and they are toast, even if they are an IS-2 or King Tiger.

Other Recce lists comprised of Armoured Cars etc, are really really difficult to play unless you are experienced.

The same with Infantry vs Infantry Battles, Dug in Infantry vs Tanks is usually an Infantry win - unless they bring something a like Flamer-thrower tank , tank riders or a BTG. Against Veteran Infantry, you may as well go home.

Some Unusual lists out there are fun to play, like the "Herman Goring" list, which is basically Recce with as much Artillery as you will ever see in one list - I'm not kidding. But to use these you need experience.

As others have said... Buy the Box above or this one..

I'm liking the look of those tank hordes. I've always wanted a battlefield strewn with wreckage which is why I went for Shermans in the first place - I just want *some* of that wreckage to be the other guys. For now though I'm stuck with armies based mostly on the Paratroop/Sherman stuff from Open Fire and armies taken from Turning Tide or Overlord - I'm prepping for an event next month that restricts us to those books.

 Skriker wrote:


Running straight shermans vs. Tigers is a crap shoot. If the dice go your way you can do well. If not it can really be terrible. You need to use maneuverability to get around and behind the big boys to not be taking shots at their front armor. If the dice don't go your way, or you try a full frontal assault you will lose plain and simple. Gun to gun, front to front the tigers should win every time. Better range, better penetration and better armor protection. There are multiple versions of the sherman that appear in the Blood, Guts and Glory book. Some have better armor, some have better guns and they add some variation to what a sherman company can do. Of course manuever is still necessary against the big boys. King tigers are slow and you can readily outnumber them, and a 4-5 to 1 ratio of shermans to tigers is generally what was needed to deal with them.

I ran 12 vs 3, with four of those 12 being the 76mm version - though due to the reserve rules, they didn't appear until well after they were needed, but I think my opponent was getting those rules wrong because he kept changing the turn you start rolling from.

Blammed him several times from the rear but only got a bail. It was dissappointing.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I ran 12 vs 3, with four of those 12 being the 76mm version - though due to the reserve rules, they didn't appear until well after they were needed, but I think my opponent was getting those rules wrong because he kept changing the turn you start rolling from.

Blammed him several times from the rear but only got a bail. It was dissappointing.

Reserve rolls start on the first turn unless it is delayed reserves. Many a game has been lost because of poor reserves rolls. My armored cav used to get screwed in games with mobile reserves too because almost all of my units were vehicles and I could only have 1 unit of vehicles on the table at the start of the game, so I was often overwhelmed before I could get the rest of my force on the table. Thankfully regular reserves automatially start giving you at least one reserve unit per turn after the 3rd no matter what you roll now in 3rd edition. It got REALLY frustrating to have rolled every turn for 6 turns and NEVER have gotten any reserves at all. It was helpful when that would happen to your opponent, but you always remembered how much it sucked for you when it happened to you that it quickly would remove any fun from the battle then.

If you have the numbers, but most of your numbers are off the table in reserve then you don't really have the numbers and you need to play hide and seek until you get your reserves on the board.

Skriker

Wow, this game is certainly full of surprises. I just managed a win against one of the top players in New Zealand (using his tournament list!) using the following list against his British Infantry/Arty force;

American Medium Tank Company

~2 HQ Shermans
~5 Standard Shermans
~5 76mm Shermans
~105mm gun battery
~155mm gun battery
~Recon team
~Tank Destroyer Platoon
~Limited Aircraft

This looks like the style I'll stick with, but I need a little help in tweaking it. I definitely had far too much artillery, and after seeing the incredible power of smoke (some cheap smoke mortars put my whole battery out of comission several times) I need a little more than just my Sherman mounted smoke launchers.

The Artillery wasn't very useful against dug-in Veteran troops, but his artillery certainly opened a few trained Shermans and it's certainly proved its worth against big tanks. The aircraft was an almost total waste of time, it very rarely came in, and when it did all the good targets were 16" from my dudes, or it got shot down or failed it's "target is next to a building" roll, or hit and did nothing... it's definitely out

So right now thinking of ditching the 155mm, the Aircraft, and possibly the 105mm because I'm not sure if it's worth it on its own. In exchange I'd grab something cheap that can drop smoke (assumably mortars), some infantry if I keep the 105mm, and otherwise not really sure.