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So at my league yesterday, the host/store clerk was showing us the new GW catalog with all of the Wall of Martyr's Apoc stuff in it and notes on how they will all be usable in non-apoc 40k games. Is this news or have we know this all along? On GW's website all of the Wall of Martyrs terrain fortifications have the following line in their descriptions...

"Rules for using this scenery piece in games of Warhammer 40,000 are included in the box."

So... for $65 usd we can now have a bunker with 8 lascannons?

I can't find any rules or points costs anywhere, but I do have one on order now just to find out.

Keep us posted...I'm curious as to how these will work myself.
We know the stats for all the weapons, and have a reasonable precedent with the bastion/fortress of redemption for bunkers (AV14). My biggest question is if they made rules for the wall itself (a better ADL?)...cause as of right now there are none. It will all depend on how they are priced points-wise I suppose, though I could see that lascannon one pretty much shutting down cron air.

Also, for those who were wondering the macro-cannon has a profile on p. 56 of the BRB. It's not that great.

the standard set (without the heavy guns) I've always imagined are like a super sized and more fortified Aegis defense line. With the guns im sure its some serious fortification firepower.

Im curious to what it will actually be, as when I got my Wall (in separate boxes. they ran out of the "full set" so I got the same thing in separate boxes) There were no rules but instructions to glue large a armored plates to the front. (all of 1 page)

I think they mean more that you can use the terrain pieces in standard 40k... hopefully they don't give them additional rules because I can see that being broken...

Yes please keep us posted! I can't wait to get my hands on those firestorm redoubts and Aquila strongpoints.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think they mean more that you can use the terrain pieces in standard 40k... hopefully they don't give them additional rules because I can see that being broken...

My personal guess is they will have rules for the weapons because as potentially lucrative as a massive bait-and-switch would be, creating stuff that impacts the game will be more lucrative. Did any of you buy the wall of martyrs kits before? I know I didn't. Remember that the Aegis line used to be scenery too, and we used the quadgun to make rifledreads. Now the ADL is everywhere.

As I said, we know all the stats for the weapons: Icarus Lascannons (they look twin-linked), Punisher Cannons, Battle Cannons, and Macro Cannons. There are already vortex missiles in Apocalypse, so I'm guessing those will stay there especially since "vortex" seems to be latest fashion/style craze: "I've got to get a vortex grenade! All the cool kids have them!". We also already have bunkers.

I see 3 possibilities:
1. They are just decoration. Bait-and-switch, but some people will still buy them to play Apoc, just like baneblades.
2. They are neutral terrain for your game. There are already rules for neutral fortifications in the BRB.
3. They are a new class of fortification. You can buy one for X points instead of your ADL, and maybe you can buy some wall sections as well.

In my (very) humble opinion, if option 3 is correct the new fortifications could potentially shift the meta yet again. The determining factor will be their points cost. However, I don't see them costing any more than a FOR, and even if it was 220 pts for downing 2 fliers a turn (with interceptor no less) it's a pretty good deal (cause it's not like I can't find a use for 4 TL-LC shots anyway). Or you can buy some MEQ killing ordnance or a punisher cannon to be operated by someone with a higher BS than 3. If they make rules for the wall itself, I'm predicting it's going to be a 3+ cover save to distinguish it from and make it better than the ADL. However, we will find out soon enough and anything at this point is just speculation (really fun speculation though).

It isn't 8 lascannons, it is 2 Quad-linked Icarus. So 4 lascannon shots.

I'm not sure what the confusion is here. They will be just like all the other fortifications GW produces.

There will be rules for the guns and other options/special abilities just like the fortifications in the BRB. Only difference is that they may be limited to purchase in an Apoc list. Even if they are you can always use then without the guns/special rules in a normal game.

I, for one, welcome our new fortified Overlords!

Seriously though, I play Iron Warriors and would love new Fortification choices.

 jifel wrote:
I, for one, welcome our new fortified Overlords!

Seriously though, I play Iron Warriors and would love new Fortification choices.

But Iron Warriors break fortifications...

Imperial Fists build them.

 DeffDred wrote:

 jifel wrote:
I, for one, welcome our new fortified Overlords!

Seriously though, I play Iron Warriors and would love new Fortification choices.

But Iron Warriors break fortifications...

Imperial Fists build them.

Breaking them means they have to exist in the first place!

My question is the Weapons Battery worth it for ground units or just go with the Lascannons for air attacks?

Hopefully, 2 weeks out isn't necro...

I bought the firestorm redoubt yesterday, and the apoc rulebook. The aquila strongpoint looks like apoc-only cause it's in the apoc rulebook,, but the others are fine for normal 40K as far as I can tell. The wall of martyrs itself has no point value, it's just a "defense line" and is part of a fortification formation for apoc. The new fortifications, however, do have points costs and rules in the package.

The biggest thing here isn't how good the new fortifications will be, it's that Games Workshop will be packinging individual rules in the box. In other words, not tying a release to a book of any kind.

That, there, could be a big development. Being able to put out a brand spanking new unit for an army, and not needing to tie it to a Codex, Supplement or White Dwarf article would be a huge plus for the game.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Hopefully, 2 weeks out isn't necro...

I bought the firestorm redoubt yesterday, and the apoc rulebook. The aquila strongpoint looks like apoc-only cause it's in the apoc rulebook,, but the others are fine for normal 40K as far as I can tell. The wall of martyrs itself has no point value, it's just a "defense line" and is part of a fortification formation for apoc. The new fortifications, however, do have points costs and rules in the package.

I made the mistake of bringing up the older Wall of Martyrs pieces (Defense line, Bunker and Gun Emplacements) not currently having point values in another forum. First I was told I was stupid because those were just terrain pieces and then I showed them the formations in the Apocalypse book. Then I was told well they must be free because there were no point values available for them. Then I brought up the obvious potential for abuse if you let people have a bunch of trenches, emplacements and bunkers for free and I was then told I would loose my game anyways if I had all of that +4 cover save terrain protecting my troops. Then I was pretty much accused of never having played the game and I was dumb because most of our Apocalypse games were infantry heavy.

So how would you guys handle purchasing Wall of Martyrs components that don't currently have point values? I'm hoping that GW will add them via FAQ or maybe start adding pamphlets with the rules like they're doing in the new boxes, maybe a free PDF but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Treat Wall of Martyrs components as ADL components.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Treat Wall of Martyrs components as ADL components.

Rules wise I would treat trenches as 4+ cover and the bunkers AV whatever the standard is. The problem becomes how do I incorporate them into the Apocalypse Formations such as the Grand Redoubt which allows a bunch of different fortifications to be purchased including the Trenches, Bunkers and Gun Emplacements. None of those items have points values listed anywhere as of right now. I don't know if they ever will, but who knows.

Some of the not so sage advice I'm getting on another forum suggests either no you can't buy them because they're strictly terrain despite the fact that they're listed on the formation. Some of the others are like, "They must be free because they have no point values so you can have as many as you, but who cares +4 cover isn't that good anyways." I'm like are you kidding me.

Black1705f wrote:
So how would you guys handle purchasing Wall of Martyrs components that don't currently have point values? I'm hoping that GW will add them via FAQ or maybe start adding pamphlets with the rules like they're doing in the new boxes, maybe a free PDF but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

I would let people use them for free if they want the formation, just don't go to far with it.

 -Loki- wrote:
The biggest thing here isn't how good the new fortifications will be, it's that Games Workshop will be packinging individual rules in the box. In other words, not tying a release to a book of any kind.

That, there, could be a big development. Being able to put out a brand spanking new unit for an army, and not needing to tie it to a Codex, Supplement or White Dwarf article would be a huge plus for the game.

This isn't the first time, the Men of Dale for The Hobbit have rules in the box, that said, I haven't seen anyone buy them.

Considering the nature of Apoc, I don't think a free wall of martyrs is going to be abused. I also don't think it will be all that significant. If you're a WAAC Apoc player, I think you're doing it wrong.

 DeffDred wrote:

 jifel wrote:
I, for one, welcome our new fortified Overlords!

Seriously though, I play Iron Warriors and would love new Fortification choices.

But Iron Warriors break fortifications...

Imperial Fists build them.

Both imperial fists and Iron warriors break fortifications. The Artificers chapter builds them.

 sing your life wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 jifel wrote:
I, for one, welcome our new fortified Overlords!

Seriously though, I play Iron Warriors and would love new Fortification choices.

But Iron Warriors break fortifications...

Imperial Fists build them.

Both imperial fists and Iron warriors break fortifications. The Artificers chapter builds them.

The Imperial Palace laughs at such misunderstandings.

The Imperial Palace laughs at Imperial Fist siegecraft, too, since the entire chapter and three of its successors couldn't break in with help from the Tech Guard when all that was defending it was a handful of little girls in too-big armour.

To be fair, aren't Imperial Fists the ones that are better at designing fortifications? Iron Warriors were the seige specialists. Imperial Fists were the defense builders.

 -Loki- wrote:
To be fair, aren't Imperial Fists the ones that are better at designing fortifications? Iron Warriors were the seige specialists. Imperial Fists were the defense builders.

Indeed you are correct.