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EDIT: See below for updated list

HQ:
Librarian w/Terminator Armor, Force Axe, Stormshield, Null Zone, Gate

Elites:
5xTerminator w/1 Cyclone Launcher

Troops:
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Flamer. Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Flamer. Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun

FA:
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
3xSM Bikes w/2 Meltaguns, Attack Bike w/Multi-Melta

HS:
Thunder Fire Cannon
Thunder Fire Cannon
Predator w/Lascannon Sponsons

Fortifications:
ADL w/Quad Gun

Gist of it is the Librarian and Terminators sit behind the ADL with the TFCs, and occasionally the combat squadded lascannons. Librarian joins the Terminators, but sits on the quad gun. With two TFCs, the combat squads, and the ADL, I know that it's a target, so the Terminators + Librarian act as a counter charge unit which is capable of shooting the quad + Storm Bolters + Cyclone until they need to get their hands dirty. The Predator sets up shop nearby to also add firepower.

The two Razorbacks carry the combat squads with flamers, and generally work as last minute objective grabbers, while the Bikes and 2 Stormtalons work to corral fast moving targets and take them down, or work to take out stuff in the opponent's backfield.

I'm not in love with the Predator or Bikes, and I'm considering a Dev squad instead, but I realize that I'd be giving up a unit that is fast moving and can engage targets and a tank that can be relatively hardy when firing downtown from behind cover. Any thoughts on where this can improve? I'm really fond of the usage of the Terminators and I'd rather not swap them out, but pretty much anything else is fair game.

Looks good. I could nitpick little things, like my preference for assault cannons, rather then CMLs, or a force staff, rather then an axe, but that's all just down to my preference and play style.

I'd like to see a little more melta. You have the bike squad, and that's it. But with enough LCs, you should be fine. I could see subbing some PCs for the LCs, but that's very meta dependent.

If you could shake 5 points out of somewhere, a chainfist on the termis would be nice. Sometimes you need to carve something open.

You aren't very mobile, but when you are describing your list as a gunline, that's a given.

I vastly prefer Missile Launchers in Tact squads to Lascannons. Much more flexible and Lascannons always feel like too many eggs in one basket.

I also think the Lascannon sponsons are not worth the points. I very often run two 85 point preds with HB sponsons and it's a rare game indeed when they don't make those points back.

I would tweak your Tacts slightly, replace the PG with melta and put the razorbacks with the melta gun squads. That way you have the option of combat squadding the melta gun into the razorback. If the razorbacks live long enough that can be effective, or at least a red herring.

I rarely give my librarian TDA, even though he usually runs around with Termies. I think with your setup it isn't a bad idea though.

I like the idea and overall theme, but like Nevelon said, my nit picking is just my style choices.

The only thing I would change might be the bikes. I personally like landspeeders, and since most things will be behind the ADL, with only a small force up front, the bikes will die anyway. Landspeeders are good and in most cases better, that bikes for that. Dual MM or MM/Flamer are some of the best options for first blood. If you really want a firing squad type army, consider 2 landspeeders with typhoon missile launchers and heavy bolters. Lots of ranged fire there.

In my opinion, this list will be outclassed only by pure shooty lists with everything about 30" range like Tau. But even then, thunderfire cannons will decimate them.
Great heavy support base with solid backup on the centre of the field.
About your earlier misgivings about the devs, don't. Preds are really good and devs for sm are poop. Your list doesn't need extra models. It needs some armour to support the 50 models on field. Really good list that covers all bases. Kudos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You also need the terminators on the field as a scare unit. Everything else will be killed by AP3, so you need something that will stand up to that.

Updated version:

HQ:
Librarian w/Terminator Armor, Force Axe, Storm Bolter, Null Zone, Gate

Elites:
5xTerminator w/Cyclone Launcher, 1 Chainfist

Troops:
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB

FA:
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
Land Speeder w/MM, HF

HS:
Thunder Fire Cannon
Thunder Fire Cannon
AC Predator w/Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Storm Bolter

Fortifications:
ADL w/Quad Gun

Dropping the Bikes, Pred's Lascannons, and the Tac Squad plasma guns gives me the room to upgrade the two flamers to meltaguns, and give those two Tac Squads their own TL HB Razorbacks. The extra anti-tank that's mobile gives me the option of slapping the HB Sponsons on the Predator. The remaining points go towards a MM/HF speeder which can solo hunt backfield threats and a chainfist for the Terminators. I figure the Lascannons on troops make sense, because there are several threats out there that have 2+ armor saves that I want to be able to handle, and 4 meltas + 4 lascannons + 1 MM gives me a good chance of dealing with them.

This set up also gives me a strong gunline, 4 scoring units that are relatively mobile (the combat squads with meltas in razorbacks), backfield threats from the two Stormtalons and Speeder, and plenty of both anti-troop and anti-tank dakka.

Of course, I can always drop the Storm Bolter on both the Predator and the Librarian to give him his Storm Shield back.

nobody wrote:
Updated version:

HQ:
Librarian w/Terminator Armor, Force Axe, Storm Bolter, Null Zone, Gate

Elites:
5xTerminator w/Cyclone Launcher, 1 Chainfist

Troops:
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB
10xTactical Marine w/Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabomb on Sergeant, Razorback w/TL HB

FA:
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
Stormtalon w/Skyhammers
Land Speeder w/MM, HF

HS:
Thunder Fire Cannon
Thunder Fire Cannon
AC Predator w/Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Storm Bolter

Fortifications:
ADL w/Quad Gun

Some points for consideration:
1) With the current trends in the meta (so much cover ignoring stuff, lots of Ap4 or worse shooting over AP2-3 direct fire) I don't think the ADL+quad gun is worth it for marines. You have potential for good cover saves if you can use it via the techmarines; the storm talons are better, harder to counter than a quad gun anti-air; and if you are drawing LOS like you should over the ADL you find you are actually blocking your own LOS often. I'd use those points for more guns (with few tweaks you could get a third storm talon or a 3 man melta bike squad).

2) I think your list would be better served by either a vindicator or whirlwind rather than the predator. Pred provides more of the same to the list, the vindie helps instagib T5 (which is becoming more prevalant) and a barrage weapon is always useful at getting deck chair scorers or sniping key models.

3) Speeder is meh, another storm talon or 3 melta attack bikes would be better. I like the attack bikes as they are good for line breaker, do decent in scouring missions and are just an all around handy unit (pick on MSU shooters, block charges, etc)

My speeders have been shelved. 6th has not been kind to them. Ran Dual MM speeders in 2's all the time in 5th to great effect, but now they almost always give up first blood. My attack bikes have been much more effective than the speeders since 6th. Hard to double out, jink, and fast.

I agree about ADL. The things that kill marines so badly (Helldrake, DCA, etc) don't care about the cover save. And the quadgun is nice, but storm talons are good at ripping apart other fliers.

Hmm, my main concern with dropping the ADL is that I'm aware of at least one flying circus list in my local meta, so I'd like a method of shooting down swooping MCs for the rest of my list to savage, and unfortunately Vanilla SM does not have any native AA that's on the field on Turn 1, unless they dip into FW (which really isn't an option for me) or dipping into allies (which I'd prefer not to do).

I'm okay with ditching the speeder, and while I'm a fan of Vindicators, I've always been of the impression that you go with 2 or more, as 1 is just bait for every lascannon/melta/railgun/lance/etc your opponent can bring.

I think that a quad gun is worth it, because it provides a 3+ cover save with the techmarine, and it is good against fliers, land units, and those winged thingies that chaos have. It provides 4 twin linked high strength shots that are cheap when compared with other options that space marines have.

If you are looking for high strength anti cover, something which TCFs lack, then a whirlwind is a good choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I reckon this list is so good that I am going to use it as soon as I get the opportunity.

Ork Marine wrote:
I think that a quad gun is worth it, because it provides a 3+ cover save with the techmarine, and it is good against fliers, land units, and those winged thingies that chaos have. It provides 4 twin linked high strength shots that are cheap when compared with other options that space marines have.

If you are looking for high strength anti cover, something which TCFs lack, then a whirlwind is a good choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I reckon this list is so good that I am going to use it as soon as I get the opportunity.

Unless I'm misremembering something, the Techmarine cannot improve the ADL as it's not considered a ruin, and the Whirlwind's ignore cover shot is the same str/ap as a bolter.

nobody wrote:

Ork Marine wrote:
I think that a quad gun is worth it, because it provides a 3+ cover save with the techmarine, and it is good against fliers, land units, and those winged thingies that chaos have. It provides 4 twin linked high strength shots that are cheap when compared with other options that space marines have.

If you are looking for high strength anti cover, something which TCFs lack, then a whirlwind is a good choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I reckon this list is so good that I am going to use it as soon as I get the opportunity.

Unless I'm misremembering something, the Techmarine cannot improve the ADL as it's not considered a ruin, and the Whirlwind's ignore cover shot is the same str/ap as a bolter.

You are correct. Techmarines can only bolster ruins, not other terrain (like battlefield debris)

The whirlwind is like a heavy bolter and/or a flamer in a large blast barrage. There are a lot of things skulking around in the woods that can be purged with a good flamer. And the whirlwind's incendiary missiles let you do that from across the table.

While in general I think the WW is overshadowed by the TFC, don't sell it short. It still gets the job done, and has some nice tricks and perks.

 Nevelon wrote:

nobody wrote:

Ork Marine wrote:
I think that a quad gun is worth it, because it provides a 3+ cover save with the techmarine, and it is good against fliers, land units, and those winged thingies that chaos have. It provides 4 twin linked high strength shots that are cheap when compared with other options that space marines have.

If you are looking for high strength anti cover, something which TCFs lack, then a whirlwind is a good choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I reckon this list is so good that I am going to use it as soon as I get the opportunity.

Unless I'm misremembering something, the Techmarine cannot improve the ADL as it's not considered a ruin, and the Whirlwind's ignore cover shot is the same str/ap as a bolter.

You are correct. Techmarines can only bolster ruins, not other terrain (like battlefield debris)

The whirlwind is like a heavy bolter and/or a flamer in a large blast barrage. There are a lot of things skulking around in the woods that can be purged with a good flamer. And the whirlwind's incendiary missiles let you do that from across the table.

While in general I think the WW is overshadowed by the TFC, don't sell it short. It still gets the job done, and has some nice tricks and perks.

oh I agree...I can think of a few places in my local meta where a whirlwind may be useful (it'd be a hilarious counter to the scarab farms I see every now and then) . My dispute was with the statement that the ignore cover shot on the whirlwind is stronger than the TFC's.

I may pick one up anyway at some point in anticipation of the new codex...I'd think there's a strong possibility they may make the AA missiles an alternate ammo type for it and/or a buff to the missiles to make it more attractive