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Oh I do have a solution. Lobotomies all around?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
3 hots and a cot? What's not to like about being locked up? So you have to deal with your bunk mate getting frisky, and shankings kinda suck, but no rent, no bills, and if you're lucky get locked up in one of the 8 states that allow conjugal visits!

And a college education with no debt

Which prisons offer a college education with no debt?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
3 hots and a cot? What's not to like about being locked up? So you have to deal with your bunk mate getting frisky, and shankings kinda suck, but no rent, no bills, and if you're lucky get locked up in one of the 8 states that allow conjugal visits!

And a college education with no debt

Sounds an awful lot like Army life... and I know from experience our food is the same as in the prison system

They live better then us...but food wise.....I never seen the DFAC serve bologna sandwiches....actually...I've seen it a couple times where you can make a bologna sandwich.....then there was a time they serve liver....twice...two days in a row....due to budget cuts...

 Jihadin wrote:
They live better then us...but food wise.....I never seen the DFAC serve bologna sandwiches....actually...I've seen it a couple times where you can make a bologna sandwich.....then there was a time they serve liver....twice...two days in a row....due to budget cuts...

And I think we're given the same "safety silverware" that they are.... Today's fightin' men and women, and we can't even properly cut our mystery meat

LOL damn so true....cannot count how many times I had to use my multitool knife to assist in cutting

I figured its just part of survival training.

If you can survive on the stuff we feed you, you can survive on anything!

 d-usa wrote:
I figured its just part of survival training.

If you can survive on the stuff we feed you, you can survive on anything!

No amount of survival training can prepare you for the horror that is the Camel Spider!!!

I am sure that there is at least one crazy fether that tried roasting one...

Forgot the youtube video of that marine eating a live one?

I have not seen it, but marines are crazy so it's not that surprising...

Great source of protein, I'm sure.

 Hordini wrote:
Part of the problem is probably that many people don't realize how horrendous and savage a sentence like life without parole actually is. If there's no chance of parole whatsoever, what reason does the prisoner have to be well behaved or to improve himself?

There's a big difference between spending your life in a small box, and spending your life in a small box with a TV, reading material, and visits from friends and family. Prisoners who act poorly can expect to lose access to the latter, giving them incentive to behave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Dude, did you read the post I was responding to? That may have been useful instead of rushing to build a straw man. Here's the post in case you missed it;

I read it. And I note that he's given a standard, albeit what is likely a fairly exaggerated one. Whereas you haven't given any such thing. And when I gave you a list of people who under the current system were convicted and put on death row despite being innocent, you just kept talking about someone else's standard.

Well, what is your standard for how certain you have to be before someone can be sentenced to death, and do you think courts in the US consistently restrict themselves to that standard?

 sebster wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
Part of the problem is probably that many people don't realize how horrendous and savage a sentence like life without parole actually is. If there's no chance of parole whatsoever, what reason does the prisoner have to be well behaved or to improve himself?

There's a big difference between spending your life in a small box, and spending your life in a small box with a TV, reading material, and visits from friends and family. Prisoners who act poorly can expect to lose access to the latter, giving them incentive to behave.

People who are imprisoned for life, that aren't out and out psychopaths (which tend to be in isolation anyway) look at prison as home and prefer that their house not be a chaotic mess all the time and tend not to like those who bring drama into their house.

@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

 whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

And if we kill someone innocent its okay because at least we tried?

You either have a 100% fail proof system when it comes to ending the live of somebody accused of being a criminal, or you don't kill people.

We needs Psyker to go in a rip the truth from their mind

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

And if we kill someone innocent its okay because at least we tried?

You either have a 100% fail proof system when it comes to ending the live of somebody accused of being a criminal, or you don't kill people.

Sure... no system is perfect.

(note, I'm on your side here... see my earlier post about re-institution chain gangs. )

Despite whatever moral arguments I might have against the death penalty, the fact that the system isn't perfect (and I don't think we can ever guarantee a perfect system) is really the #1 reason why I think we need to get rid of it.

 d-usa wrote:
Despite whatever moral arguments I might have against the death penalty, the fact that the system isn't perfect (and I don't think we can ever guarantee a perfect system) is really the #1 reason why I think we need to get rid of it.

Yup... agreed.

Unless... we throw them in The Thunderdome TM and charge a premium on pay-per-view... BAM! No moar debt! (waaait.... how many movies are based on this premise? )

whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

Dear Mr. Whembly:

The state of Missouri is terribly sorry to have executed you wife/son/daughter for capital charges which were later proven to be false. However, we hope you take solace in the fact that the state prosecuted your family member as best they could and without prejudice, and offer you my personal condolences.

Best of luck in your future endeavours;

Governor Jay Nixon

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

And if we kill someone innocent its okay because at least we tried?

You either have a 100% fail proof system when it comes to ending the live of somebody accused of being a criminal, or you don't kill people.

Innocent people die every day.

You don't have a 100% fail proof system of preventing people from meeting fatal accidents on constructions sites and oddly enough you build new things all the time.

PhantomViper wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

And if we kill someone innocent its okay because at least we tried?

You either have a 100% fail proof system when it comes to ending the live of somebody accused of being a criminal, or you don't kill people.

Innocent people die every day.

You don't have a 100% fail proof system of preventing people from meeting fatal accidents on constructions sites and oddly enough you build new things all the time.

The key difference is those are accidents and not willful acts of the state.

PhantomViper wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

Speaking for me... how 'bout all parties do the best they can without prejudice?

And if we kill someone innocent its okay because at least we tried?

You either have a 100% fail proof system when it comes to ending the live of somebody accused of being a criminal, or you don't kill people.

Innocent people die every day.

You don't have a 100% fail proof system of preventing people from meeting fatal accidents on constructions sites and oddly enough you build new things all the time.

Stupid argument is stupid.

I periodically visit prisons as part of my job and you would actually be surprised how different it is from what you would think.

The lifers are often quite well behaved and have the best sense of community. The flowerbeds and vegetable gardens in most prisons are tended by lifers. The young guys who will be out soon are the ones without perspective who start things.

Depending on how long the lifer has been in there, I imagine a level of wisdom could be earned... I would find it interesting to converse with such a person.

 azazel the cat wrote:
@Dreadclaw: chongara seems to have ninja's my response. I still await your explanation as to what an acceptable standard is.

What an acceptable standard of proof is? The same as it is already - beyond a reasonable doubt, and with the jury reaching a sentence having the proper attention to the law, and any aggravating/mitigating factors.

And please don't try and use an appeal to emotion either. I'd hate for you to be forced to use another fallacy.