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Just put right earlier error.

Range is measured to the target unit, which is done by measuring from each firing model to the nearest model in the target unit.
Every firing model remains in range at each stage of the shooting attack, because it was in range of the unit and, even though the range to the nearest model in the unit may change, all firing models remain in range.

So, if my unit consists solely of say 2 flamers and 1 heavy flamer …

I check range for all three, I am in range so I fire (ahem).
I roll to wound and separate the flamer wounds from the heavies and decide to resolve the flamers first.
After model removal, it so happens that all of the enemy models that were touched by the templates have now gone. But, according to p16, my heavy flamer is still in range, so I carry on my shooting attack, removing more casualties.

This proves that even though shooting is considered to be simultaneous, it is, in fact, sequential in rules terms, out of necessity. It also proves that I can remove models that were demonstrably in range, when I was asked to check range and that I can remove models that have become demonstrably out of range, because I was given permission to, by p16 “out of range.”

The faq turns that on its head. If thast's not a change, I don't know what is.

So guys, am I correct in assuming the BRB + FAQ means this?

1. You check to see which models in your unit may fire by checking their individual ranges and LoS to the enemy. As long as a model has range and LoS to at least one enemy model, they may fire.
2. Once you have figured out how many friendly models can shoot, you roll the To Hits.
3. Out of those hits, you determine how many are wounds.
4. Once the amount of wounds achieved is calculated, they are put into the wound pool.
5. In order to figure out which enemy models may be removed, you must check to see which model/models have the longest range and LoS and how many enemy models fall into that range and LoS.
6. Any enemy model that falls into LoS with one of your models, and also falls into the Range of one of your models may be allocated a wounds and removed.

Do I finally have a firm comprehension of this? Or am I still wrong?

No, that's correct.

Just to clarify, because the way I'm reading this debate does not make any sense...

Here's a scenario:

A squad of Termagaunts are approaching a firewarrior squad. 1 termigaunt is within 15' of all but one firewarrior. but all are within 30"

Since that last firewarrior cannot rapidfire due to no model being within 15", but him having the rest of the termigaunts in regular range...... Now that rapid firing spills over into the whole unit, even though only one model was within 15"?

That makes absolutly no sense.

That would be like a unit of 9 shotgun scouts and one with a sniper rifle... one model within 12" but suddenly those shotguns are causing wounds out to 36"

Rapid fire doesn't change the range of the weapon. Pulse rifles have 30" range.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
That makes absolutly no sense.

It's slightly abstracted, that's all. People like to bring up strange situations, but consider normal situations for a second. Every single model in the shooting unit will commonly have a nearly distinct set of target models in LoS and range. Sure, when you've got one weapon with range to everyone and the rest of the weapons with range to just one guy, that might seem like you should separate them, but if you've got ten weapons, every single one of which has range to a slightly different set of target models, resolving them individually is INCREDIBLY impractical.

I just read that whole section and now agree.. although I think its counter intuitive...

If a unit is within sight, but only a few models are in range, the whole unit can be wounded, even if they were out of range.

Only one thing even SLIGHTLY indicates otherwise, but not enough to rule otherwise.... "MIXED Wounds" p.15 says: If after rolling to wound the wound pool contains groups with different Strengths (why would this matter if the roll to wound has been made), AP values, or special rules, then each of thes groups is resolved separately"

I could see using that to try and argue different ranges, but other sections imply that the wounds can carry to madels past their range, as silly as that is.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Just to clarify, because the way I'm reading this debate does not make any sense...

That may be because ...
The faq is worded terribly, both q+a.
Many posters gap is nowhere near raw.
The answer is not listed as errata when it fundamentally changes rules in the book.
The raw does not do what many believe it should.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Here's a scenario:

A squad of Termagaunts are approaching a firewarrior squad. 1 termigaunt is within 15' of all but one firewarrior. but all are within 30"

Since that last firewarrior cannot rapidfire due to no model being within 15", but him having the rest of the termigaunts in regular range...... Now that rapid firing spills over into the whole unit, even though only one model was within 15"?

According to the rulebook, all but 1 fire warrior can fire two shots, the last warrior, just one. All wounds caused can be allocated without concern for range.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
That would be like a unit of 9 shotgun scouts and one with a sniper rifle... one model within 12" but suddenly those shotguns are causing wounds out to 36"

Assuming you mean 1 enemy model (and therefore the enemy unit) in 12", the "wounding range" of both the shotguns and the sniper rifle are unlimited. That is, according to the book.
Now, with the faq, the range is limited to that of the longest range weapon, that is 36".

I agree that's what's written. I don't like it though as its easily abusable and remove allot of the range stats balancing power.

Pyrian wrote:
Every single model in the shooting unit will commonly have a nearly distinct set of target models in LoS and range.

I entirely agree with your conclusion, but would like to pick this out for arguments sake.

This is an idea, that appears in the faq, that only causes confusion.

Unless you are using an unusual shooting attack, you don't target models, you target units. When you measure range and are about to roll to hit, you have no idea which models are shooting at which models.
The level of detail some people seem to be reading (or somehow assuming) into the rules, is probably entirely impractical and simply not there.

The level of abstraction can be seen in something like this (which may cause a wtf moment in some).

My unit contains a character with a combi-plasma. He is within 12" of his target unit and elects to fire the plasma gun and so must fire two shots.
One roll is a 6, so he can precision shoot an enemy character in range.
Even though he fired twice, the range of a plasma gun is 24" and he decides to shoot an enemy character 15" away.



So, he fired 2 shots because he was in 12" of his target, which is an enemy unit (not a model), and ended up actually targeting a model that was never a target in the first instance, that "seemed" to be out of range in a real worldy logical sense.
If you accept this abstraction, there are far fewer wtf moments.

 fuusa wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
Every single model in the shooting unit will commonly have a nearly distinct set of target models in LoS and range.

I entirely agree with your conclusion, but would like to pick this out for arguments sake.

This is an idea, that appears in the faq, that only causes confusion.

Unless you are using an unusual shooting attack, you don't target models, you target units. When you measure range and are about to roll to hit, you have no idea which models are shooting at which models.
The level of detail some people seem to be reading (or somehow assuming) into the rules, is probably entirely impractical and simply not there.

The level of abstraction can be seen in something like this (which may cause a wtf moment in some).

My unit contains a character with a combi-plasma. He is within 12" of his target unit and elects to fire the plasma gun and so must fire two shots.
One roll is a 6, so he can precision shoot an enemy character in range.
Even though he fired twice, the range of a plasma gun is 24" and he decides to shoot an enemy character 15" away.



So, he fired 2 shots because he was in 12" of his target, which is an enemy unit (not a model), and ended up actually targeting a model that was never a target in the first instance, that "seemed" to be out of range in a real worldy logical sense.
If you accept this abstraction, there are far fewer wtf moments.

I agree with this conclusion, but don't like it. It makes me think that shooting should be done in stages grouped by range rather than massed. It still wouldn't be perfect unless you rolled on a model by model basis which would take forever. I guess the Idea of pistols or shotguns wounding guys that are past their range just irritates me.

Until its changed that's the rule though.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
I guess the Idea of pistols or shotguns wounding guys that are past their range just irritates me.

That is how it worked before the FaQ as well, a 10 man unit could be in range of just 1 guy in the target unit and the whole unit that was targeted could die.

Now, after the FaQ, you need a longer range weapon in the unit for that to happen otherwise just one dude can die.

It is now more restrictive than it was.