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Recently someone asked me if Acts of Faith were psychic powers. At first I was "Psshhh! Of course not! It's pure faith in the Emprah!" But then that got me thinking. Is it that or is it really a gestalt psychic ability similar to an Ork Waaagh? Does the Emperor really watch over them like he gives a rat's behind or is it their blind faith manifesting as psychic ability? What say ye?

If it turns out to be psychic, they wouldn't be happy. They tend to have a rather negative opinion of psykers.

I have no idea, but I didnt think the Ork Waaagh! was psychic, it's pure rage and adrenaline (plant-adrenaline).

The weirdboys are psykers for sure though, and they have their own psychically induced Waagh!

It is specifically stated not to be psychic powers.

 Melissia wrote:
It is specifically stated not to be psychic powers.

For once, Melissia and I are in complete agreement.

 pretre wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It is specifically stated not to be psychic powers.

For once, Melissia and I are in complete agreement.

Then what is it?

Faith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be more specific, it is sheer willpower and belief that allows Sisters of Battle to do things that other 'normal' humans cannot. Although, it is strongly hinted at in the Horus Heresy series that there may be more to Faith than that, 40k hasn't given us much more to work with.

A combination of faith, fanaticism, and superior training, going by C:WH.

In some cases pure belief can do something but in the case of SoB it's a mix of things...

I'd argue it is an odd mixture of things. Whilst I like the notion of it simply being pure faith, I cannot help but feel it might have some connection to the warp primarily because some of the faith upgrades don't really (to me at least) make sense for just faith. Rending Heavy bolters if memory serves me. Then there are the oh so holy winged martyrs that appear only on the battlefield. But perhaps I am completely wrong? Who knows. This is a world where ork tech works because they believe it does (psykers) yet then we have nids that fire brain waves! right next to them.

It is something that cannot be explained or categorized. It might be superior training, it might be sheer willpower, it might be the intercession of the God-Emperor Himself.

What is known is that it is not a power born of the Warp, being a Blank/Untouchable has no effect on it, and it is wielded by people who are not actively psychic.

 kinratha wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It is specifically stated not to be psychic powers.

For once, Melissia and I are in complete agreement.

Then what is it?

Silly.

Shush, Vet Sarge, it's not like I go in to every Ultramarines thread posting the Pimpin' Calgar picture

I consider it a case of "mind over matter" taken to its logical extreme, as most things in 40k are.
Hell, it works for the Orks. Why not the Sisters too?

(Finally, a chance to talk about this!)

No, they're not psychic. But they are pretty much the most faithful soldiers in the Imperium. My personal theory is that Big E himself, or at least the part of him that's in the warp, may have a hand in their Acts of Faith. They believe in him so hard that it gives him the energy to aid them.

While not quite an Act of Faith, just look at Celestine. In the latest fluff, she is undying, obviously supernatural and appears in times of great need (when faith and emotion will be running highest). There is obviously some other power at work there. Personally, I like to think of her as a "Daemon Prince" of the Emperor.

The Acts of Faith themselves are a little more ambiguous. The WD codex calls them "seemingly impossible", so it seems to be saying that Acts if Faith are physically possible, just very difficult to do. Though I'd say that the description for Shield of Faith kinda hints at it being more than just them hopped up on belief. It specifically says that their faith protects them from "mortal injury". To me, this is possibly implying supernatural, since it's saying that faith alone protects them from attacks that should have been fatal. And their resistance to warp stuff could also imply that they themselves are channeling the warp somehow.

Anyway, just a theory if mine. I don't really mind if it's them getting boons from their god or just them being so faithful that mind really does overrule matter. It's pretty damn cool either way.

 Melissia wrote:
Shush, Vet Sarge, it's not like I go in to every Ultramarines thread posting the Pimpin' Calgar picture

You should. That picture is awesome, and the original artwork offends every possible sensibility one can have.


But it's no secret that the Sisters were far cooler as fervent, dedicated zealots with the Sacred Rites than they were with the Acts of Faith, magical cleric powers that are undefinable and impossible in the game's own fluff.

 Troike wrote:
(Finally, a chance to talk about this!)

While not quite an Act of Faith, just look at Celestine. In the latest fluff, she is undying, obviously supernatural and appears in times of great need (when faith and emotion will be running highest). There is obviously some other power at work there. Personally, I like to think of her as a "Daemon Prince" of the Emperor.

Could this mean that the Emperor can manifest Warp Creatures? Saints?

 livanbard wrote:

 Troike wrote:
(Finally, a chance to talk about this!)

While not quite an Act of Faith, just look at Celestine. In the latest fluff, she is undying, obviously supernatural and appears in times of great need (when faith and emotion will be running highest). There is obviously some other power at work there. Personally, I like to think of her as a "Daemon Prince" of the Emperor.

Could this mean that the Emperor can manifest Warp Creatures? Saints?

Possibly. There is fluff, after all, that he may become or is becoming a Chaos God. The Living Saints, Legion of the Damned and The Sangiunor could all be examples of the Emperor empowering dedicated followers of his or manifesting beings to aid his followers.

 Troike wrote:

 livanbard wrote:

 Troike wrote:
(Finally, a chance to talk about this!)

While not quite an Act of Faith, just look at Celestine. In the latest fluff, she is undying, obviously supernatural and appears in times of great need (when faith and emotion will be running highest). There is obviously some other power at work there. Personally, I like to think of her as a "Daemon Prince" of the Emperor.

Could this mean that the Emperor can manifest Warp Creatures? Saints?

Possibly. There is fluff, after all, that he may become or is becoming a Chaos God. The Living Saints, Legion of the Damned and The Sangiunor could all be examples of the Emperor empowering dedicated followers of his or manifesting beings to aid his followers.

I like this theory the best and seems to fit the fluff. In essence, he grants powers like a chaos god and the living saint may in fact be a sort of "good" demon prince. But then, if its stated that there is no connection to the warp, he (the emprah!) Must be going about it in a different manner. That's an interesting turn of events if that's true. So, Celestine is similar to Lucius the Undying? (or whatever his name is.)

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 livanbard wrote:

 Troike wrote:
(Finally, a chance to talk about this!)

While not quite an Act of Faith, just look at Celestine. In the latest fluff, she is undying, obviously supernatural and appears in times of great need (when faith and emotion will be running highest). There is obviously some other power at work there. Personally, I like to think of her as a "Daemon Prince" of the Emperor.

Could this mean that the Emperor can manifest Warp Creatures? Saints?

Possibly. There is fluff, after all, that he may become or is becoming a Chaos God. The Living Saints, Legion of the Damned and The Sangiunor could all be examples of the Emperor empowering dedicated followers of his or manifesting beings to aid his followers.

I like this theory the best and seems to fit the fluff. In essence, he grants powers like a chaos god and the living saint may in fact be a sort of "good" demon prince. But then, if its stated that there is no connection to the warp, he (the emprah!) Must be going about it in a different manner. That's an interesting turn of events if that's true. So, Celestine is similar to Lucius the Undying? (or whatever his name is.)

Actually, this reminds me of a point I wanted to raise but forgot to in my previous post. The existence of Celestine and her status as a clearly supernatural being do lend a little weight to the Emperor having a hand in the Acts of Faith. But again, it's unclear. And the codexes do seem to lean towards Acts not being supernatural and merely a case of the extreme belief of the Sisters pushing them to superhuman feats.

Anyway, the "no connection to the warp" part wouldn't be relevant to Celestine, as it was referring to Acts of Faith. Also, you're thinking of "Lucius the Eternal". And yes, it could be comparable. A god granting one of his favoured followers eternal life.

As with all (or most) things in 40k, it depends entirely on which sources we are looking at, and which interpretations we prefer. There are some, such as the Dawn of War computer game or FFG's RPG, which clearly portray them as supernatural powers. Games Workshop's own writing, on the other hand, describes Acts of Faith as the result of intense training and willpower, whose effects are merely misinterpreted as miracles by a people so religious that they see divine intervention in what is nothing but a human being pushing herself to (or over) her limits, or perhaps even just coincidence. As we all know, there are sufficient examples in our real life history - from the original Jesus to Jeanne d'Arc (coincidentally an obvious inspiration for the Adepta Sororitas) all the way to the so-called miracles of today. For a real life example of what would probably qualify as an Act of Faith for the Battle Sisters, check out what this guy did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogendra_Singh_Yadav
Coincidentally, in an interview from 2012, this soldier talked about how, after being injured in battle, a vision appeared before him, and how it was faith and divine power that allowed him to carry on fighting. Sounds familiar?

Anyways, to address OP's question directly, GW's Inquisitor RPG went so far as to flat-out state that "no Adepta Sororitas character will ever have psychic powers of any sort", and the TT Codex rules they had in 3rd and 4th edition gave them a chance to nullify not only hostile but even benevolent psychic effects as their willpower instinctively rejects the Warp's influence on their physical form. In 6E, this effect would be known as "Deny the Witch" (BRB p.68), though it is now available to other factions as well.

The Living Saint Celestine, on the other hand, is something I regard as a different and independent phenomenon, which could be explained by a number of options. For example, Celestine could be a minor Warp entity born of the collective outbursts of emotion of the faithful during an Imperial crusade (as the Warp is inherently neutral, and Slaanesh serves as a precedent of a being created through feelings), just like she could be a product of Imperial propaganda. Perhaps what we see in the Codex is nothing but a legend and a half-truth, or perhaps the character is a cyber-construct that is half human, half machine, having overcome death through the "miracles" of Imperial high technology to serve as a symbol for the religious masses in a troubled times.

In the end, each of us must make their own decision on how to interpret the available material, and of course which of the conflicting sources we wish to go by.

...anyone looking at the ideas for how Celestine could possibly come to be, and being reminded of the Sanguinor...?

 Super Ready wrote:
...anyone looking at the ideas for how Celestine could possibly come to be, and being reminded of the Sanguinor...?

Actually it's the other way around, considering how recent an addition that Sanguinor is.

 Melissia wrote:
Actually it's the other way around, considering how recent an addition that Sanguinor is.

Oh, yeah, I completely realise this. In fact I was a bit taken aback when I first found out about the Sanguinor ("Really? This is BA fluff now?") and looking back it could be argued that a certain someone was heavily eyeing up Celestine when putting the Sanguinor's concept together.

 Super Ready wrote:
a certain someone was heavily eyeing up Celestine

lol

You've given me the creepiest and most amazing mental image.

So much faith it twists reality rather than mind powers. So think more Ork than Chaos Sorcerer. 40k runs heavily on "clap your hands if you believe."

The Ork gestalt psychic field is specifically mentioned to be psychic, whereas the Sisters' Acts of Faith are specifically mentioned not to be.

I mean I get what you're going for, but it really doesn't seem to work. I think it's just a good old fashioned combination of fanaticism, training that allows Sisters to be on par with Astartes, and powered armor.

 Melissia wrote:
The Ork gestalt psychic field is specifically mentioned to be psychic, whereas the Sisters' Acts of Faith are specifically mentioned not to be.

I mean I get what you're going for, but it really doesn't seem to work. I think it's just a good old fashioned combination of fanaticism, training that allows Sisters to be on par with Astartes, and powered armor.

Well, I like to think that humanity can to some degree, alter the warp to non-chaotic ends through mass and fanatical belief to allow for some things that should not be possible to become possible.

Of course, we can never quite match the power of the Orks in that regard, but let's be fair, the Orks were a purpose designed bio-weapon to fight undead techno-gods. We just evolved from stupid monkeys.

 Kain wrote:
Well, I like to think that humanity can to some degree, alter the warp to non-chaotic ends through mass and fanatical belief to allow for some things that should not be possible to become possible.

Seems plausible enough. Human emotion does have an effect on the warp, so it's not too hard to imagine it possibly having this sort of effect also.

And if there's any human faction that could put out enough belief to do such a thing, it's the Sisters.

Kain wrote:Well, I like to think that humanity can to some degree, alter the warp to non-chaotic ends through mass and fanatical belief to allow for some things that should not be possible to become possible.

That'd still be "psyker skills", though - at least if you are trying to apply this to the Acts of Faith. The Warp simply "is", it has no conscience and anyone with the correct genetical key can tap it, hence it doesn't matter to what ends you manipulate it. Morale and ideals are entirely subjective, after all.
How many psykers on various worlds are treated not like witches but as "divinely blessed"? Priests, shamans, witch doctors, all convinced that their powers come from faith, when it is just how they manage to focus their access to the Warp. Even the Chaos Gods themselves are called ... gods, and many of the cults that worship them seem distinctively more religious rather than scientific, totally oblivious to what the Warp truly is and how it works.

Makes me wonder if some sources of fluff actually run with this idea as far as the SoB are concerned, by the way? All I've read so far either makes it simple superstition+badassery or actual "divine magic". Although I suppose the latter could easily be interpreted as a form of psychic phenomena, too, as said sources refrained from making any attempt at explaining the true origins of these powers.

I kind of think of it as psychic powers by proxy. If the Emperor's mind is still active in the Warp, my theory is that they are not consciously using psychic power themselves, but rather channeling a tiny portion of his psychic strength.