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 catharsix wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
And they're giving that apparently popular army a bunch of additional fluff and some new scenarios. Makes perfect sense.

They'll probably get some new rules also, but it seems fairly obvious that the rules aren't the focus or bulk of the content if the Iyanden book is any indication.

The confusion is between what these books are and what some people want them to be.

The confusion is why they aren't doing one for one of the more popular legions, and nearly every legion is more popular than BL. I can't think of a time I've seen a BL army in the P and M threads, or anyone talking about their own BL army. IW, KSons, WE, AL... Have seen them plenty of times. I've seen Sons of Horus and even Luna Wolves more times than BL.

Maybe that is why they are doing it then (if you're correct about BL being least popular)
It is early days, this rumour has made me consider starting a BL army depending on how the supp is.

Popularity isn't really the issue either.

It's more to do with who actually needs an expansion. BL are the Ultramarines of the Chaos pantheon. They need a supplement as much as, well, Ultramarines do.

A supplement would make far more sense being used to flesh out one of the more deviant Legions.

 insaniak wrote:


A supplement would make far more sense being used to flesh out one of the more deviant Legions.

Why would that make more sense?

 insaniak wrote:
Popularity isn't really the issue either.

It's more to do with who actually needs an expansion. BL are the Ultramarines of the Chaos pantheon. They need a supplement as much as, well, Ultramarines do.

A supplement would make far more sense being used to flesh out one of the more deviant Legions.

Except Ultramarines do infact have unique things to themselves just as any offhand chapter does.

Though it'd be a higher focus on general tactics, they do have unique things related to anti-tyranid tactics, such as Tyrannic war veterans.

Zweischneid wrote:

 insaniak wrote:


A supplement would make far more sense being used to flesh out one of the more deviant Legions.

Why would that make more sense?

Because in the same way that Codex: Space Marines represents standard Codex Chapters, the Chaos Space Marines codex represents typical Chaos Space Marine forces. The best use for a supplement therefore is to flesh out non-typical forces.

Am I the only one hoping for a more Lost and the Damned style focus for this...........Hopefully it'll bring in mutants and traitors and the lesser followers which have been sadly absent for so long and maybe flesh out the cultists some more.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
That Wordbearer fluff is news to me. I thought they were one of the more unified legions. Pretty disappointing if that's official.
Word Bearers would have been the perfect supplement codex. Daemons, CSM, Lost and the Damned. Such variety.
This certainly has me curious, if not a little puzzled.

Yeah, I've never read/heard that. Source?

They seem pretty unified to me. I'm not sure where the split into different chapters comes from, is it the new codex?

From the Daemon World of Sicarus, Lorgar watches over his Legion and orchestrates the vast corruption from within that the Imperium suffers at the hands of his cults and covens. Unlike many of the other Traitor Legions, the Word Bearers have remained a unified, if loosely organised, military force, the main ruling body of which is known as the Dark Council, which rules in Lorgar's absence.[6]
From the two primary bases of the Legion, Sicarus and the factory-world of Ghalmek, located within the Maelstrom, the Word Bearers launch twisted wars of faith against the Imperium. On each world they attack, they incubate a seed of heresy that will one day contribute to their ever-expanding web of cults. Sometimes however, this brings them into competition with the efforts of the Alpha Legion. Though the Alpha Legion and the Word Bearers have united several times to take part in the Black Crusades of Ezekyle Abaddon, they are more usually in states of bitter division and rivalry. However, these things are but distractions as their war against the Imperium of Man is total, and they do not intend for it to end until every icon of the Emperor lies shattered at their feet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Llamahead wrote:
Am I the only one hoping for a more Lost and the Damned style focus for this...........Hopefully it'll bring in mutants and traitors and the lesser followers which have been sadly absent for so long and maybe flesh out the cultists some more.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I think a lot of people would welcome the return of the "Lost and the Damned" in some form.

With the new fluff about the "Crimson Path", the focus could be on Daemons but perhaps the L&D will squeeze their way in.

In his most recent assault, the 13th Black Crusade, Abaddon managed to gain a foothold in the Cadian Gate, planning to extend the Eye of Terror to encompass even Terra in a plan known as The Crimson Path.[6] Although his ultimate victory has thus far been prevented, the High Lords of Terra live in fear of the day that Abaddon unites all of the Traitor Legions into an unstoppable horde and returns to play out the last acts of treachery begun by Horus ten thousand years ago.[2]Should Abaddon's armies triumph, the floodgates will be open and a never ending tide of Chaos will pour out of the Eye of Terror to despoil the Imperium, and perhaps once again strike at the most prized of worlds - Terra itself.

I think I might have to buy an Ezekiel model just in case this sup will be fun. The forgeworld one -does- look amazing.

 insaniak wrote:

Because in the same way that Codex: Space Marines represents standard Codex Chapters, the Chaos Space Marines codex represents typical Chaos Space Marine forces. The best use for a supplement therefore is to flesh out non-typical forces.

The Chaos Space Marines Codex represents all Chaos Space Marines forces, just as the Codex: Space Marines represents a variety of non-Codex Chapters too.

While you may prefer that supplements flesh out some more exotic armies, that isn't what they do. The Codex Supplements flesh out iconic "events", "campaigns", etc.. in the 40K history (such as the fall of Iyanden), and no Chaos Space Marine faction has a more iconic/better-known "event" like that than the Black Legion's Black Crusades (with the Red Corsairs Badab War arguably being a close second).


The assumption that it is "deviation from norm-x" that justifies or not justifies a Codex Supplement (or a Codex even) is yours alone.

So the supplements are to represent a particular events or campaigns, then why is the newest one is about the Farsight Enclaves?

I think Codex: Space Marines is universally accepted as representing Chapters who follow the Codex Astartes relatively rigorously, compared to say Space Wolves, Blood Angels or Grey Knights.

The missing 2 Codex Astartes options you can't represent in the SM Codex are an Assault Company and First company in Terminator Armour, but that is covered by Blood Angels and Dark Angels respectively. There's still a few things missing but Codex: SM goes a long way to giving you the picture of your average Space Marine chapter.

WHAT!? That's like the Vanilla Marine codex having a Ultramarine Supplement...

 Brother SRM wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:
meh....the most boring csm legion gets a supplement - yay......codex cadia suuplement next

Joke's already been made on this page, but thanks for complaining about it before we know anything about it whatsoever, that's pretty helpful!

Thats the beauty of the internet mate......I can pitch in with my thoughts regardless of how helpful you consider them to be.

 Medium of Death wrote:
So the supplements are to represent a particular events or campaigns, then why is the newest one is about the Farsight Enclaves?

I think Codex: Space Marines is universally accepted as representing Chapters who follow the Codex Astartes relatively rigorously, compared to say Space Wolves, Blood Angels or Grey Knights..

Blood Angels and Dark Angels follow the Codex Astartes much more rigorously than Iron Hands or White Scars.

This "universally accepted" representation you speak of is news to me.

And it is about the Farsight Enclaves in the same way that Iyanden is about the Craftworld Iyanden... i.e. the (origins) story (told through missions) that defines this sub-faction.

Note the sequence in which they name things, and (in the end) the purpose they say these books serve.

About this Book:
Farsight Enclaves is a digital supplement to Codex: Tau Empire that features rich and expanded background on this breakaway faction, original art, and the story of the Enclaves' charismatic leader Commander Farsight.

Also included are new missions and rules to use with your Tau Empire collection in games of Warhammer 40,000, so you can re-enact the great victories of the Enclaves, and lead commander Farsights’ elite battlesuit cadres to glory.

If GW sticks to this template, a Black Legions Supplement would be a good fit. It would feature (first) fluff, (second) new missions and (third) some rules that allow you to re-enact the Black Crusade.

An Ultramarines supplement would also fit very well. It would include (first) fluff, (second) new missions and (third) a few rules to re-enact famous 40K-history events (e.g. the Battle for Macragge). A Crimson Fists supplement would also work very well (e.g. fluff, missions and perhaps a page of rules to re-enact the battle for Rynn's World).

In contrast, say, Thousand Sons don't really work for the format GW is currently going for, because they are mainly sitting on their Daemon Planet sulking if they aren't trying to detain Ahirman.

Likewise, a Iron Hands supplement probably would not work in this format, because.. well.. they simply aren't associated with any kind of dynamic event. They're just the Chapter of Cypernetic Space Marines (and GW isn't going to invent "new" lore for these supplements if they can milk their own backlog. 5th Edition's creative audacity on display with books such as Grey Knights and Necrons Codex seems to have evaporated completely with 6th Edition).

Is that the best format/template/design-standard one could write Codex Supplements to? Probably not. But it IS the one GW is using atm, so it makes sense that they pick sub-factions that cater to it.

KaryudoDS wrote:

 marrowick wrote:
How exactly do supplements work?

They literally supplement what's in the army codex. The Eldar supplement for instance has new Warlord traits and some FoC alterations. You don't necessarily need the supplement but the supplement does need the codex as it just changes a few options.

Would these supplements be in the FaQ? I mean are the supplements the stuff like how they changed the Noise marine blastmaster restrictions?

 marrowick wrote:

KaryudoDS wrote:

 marrowick wrote:
How exactly do supplements work?

They literally supplement what's in the army codex. The Eldar supplement for instance has new Warlord traits and some FoC alterations. You don't necessarily need the supplement but the supplement does need the codex as it just changes a few options.

Would these supplements be in the FaQ? I mean are the supplements the stuff like how they changed the Noise marine blastmaster restrictions?

No. Think of the supplements as Expansion Packs for the Codex. They're in their own book and change how the "parent" Codex works, but you don't have to have them to play the army.

This is just my selfish wish, but I really hope they eventually make a Word Bearers Supplement. Either by itself, or bundled up together as a Traitor Legions Supplement.

themonk wrote:
The Death Guard (rather Plague Marines) are pretty much deployed by one battleship, the Terminus Est.

Typhus' fleet in ADB's Cadian Blood is 26 ships including up to 19 capital ships. Certainly some of those ships carry cultists and traitor Guard, but there seem to be substantial numbers of Plague Marines.

T

As a BL player I'm pretty happy about this, although I'm not that excited about buying a codex 70% the size of my already overpriced codex, for the same price :(

Really hope it focuses on the L&D element more than the current codex, I'm happy we got cultists but it seemed a bit of a rushed entry.

Excited about this release hoping for some new fluff for the BL. However I don't think this is the same though as getting an Ultramarine supplement, as the Ultramarines have six named characters and the BL only have one but I can see why some would rather see some other forces expanded, but IMO GW will probably do supplements for more of the armies later in the edition.

 Llamahead wrote:
Am I the only one hoping for a more Lost and the Damned style focus for this...........Hopefully it'll bring in mutants and traitors and the lesser followers which have been sadly absent for so long and maybe flesh out the cultists some more.

You're not the only one. But I think LatD would be better served with their own supplement though and not having to piggyback off of someone else with a few half-arsed entries. I want Queen to come on in my head with "I Want It All" when I open that supplement filled with mutants, traitors, cultists, witches and every other Warp-spawned abomination in the galaxy. *drools*

I think AL, IW, and NL have better need for supplements, but I am glad for BL players. Hope it is good.

And yes for the Catachans supplement. I have a friend that is itching to get his Tanith out of the box again with some good light infantry ambush rules.

If it is true that Armageddon is being represented with BT and Orks more, it would be nice to see a Steel Legion supplement (Fat chance I'm sure though).

 Goldshield wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
Am I the only one hoping for a more Lost and the Damned style focus for this...........Hopefully it'll bring in mutants and traitors and the lesser followers which have been sadly absent for so long and maybe flesh out the cultists some more.

You're not the only one. But I think LatD would be better served with their own supplement though and not having to piggyback off of someone else with a few half-arsed entries. I want Queen to come on in my head with "I Want It All" when I open that supplement filled with mutants, traitors, cultists, witches and every other Warp-spawned abomination in the galaxy. *drools*

I think AL, IW, and NL have better need for supplements, but I am glad for BL players. Hope it is good.

And yes for the Catachans supplement. I have a friend that is itching to get his Tanith out of the box again with some good light infantry ambush rules.

If it is true that Armageddon is being represented with BT and Orks more, it would be nice to see a Steel Legion supplement (Fat chance I'm sure though).

Aye, I find the focus on Armageddon quite amusing when GW so recently axed the Steel Legion. Some might like to hope they'll be re-released in plastic, but GW would likely view that as stepping on FW's aesthetic toes, and again, GW does not like money.

 Zweischneid wrote:


If GW sticks to this template, a World Eater Supplement would be a good fit. It would feature (first) fluff, (second) new missions and (third) some rules that allow you to re-enact the First Armageddon Battle.

Well, when you put it like that...

I got a pretty decent size Black Legion army. But the codex is a bit lackluster. Not a lot of different build options when going against competetive Eldar, Tau, Dark Angels.

Would the new supplement include new point cost for units? or maybe new units?

I hope for new all plastic Oblits and Havocs :-) would make me a happy little spawn

Lasse Nielsen wrote:
I got a pretty decent size Black Legion army. But the codex is a bit lackluster. Not a lot of different build options when going against competetive Eldar, Tau, Dark Angels.

Would the new supplement include new point cost for units? or maybe new units?

I hope for new all plastic Oblits and Havocs :-) would make me a happy little spawn

I sincerely doubt it. The Eldar and Tau supplements don't seem to have any different points values, and they didn't get extra new models released alongside them. They're more of a FOC reorganization and some different Warlord Traits/psychic powers with some fluff and art.

E: Also this talk of Armageddon and Steel Legion makes me really, really wish GW would release plastic Steel Legion along with their own supplement. I know that's not happening anytime soon (if ever) but man would I be all over that.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Aye, I find the focus on Armageddon quite amusing when GW so recently axed the Steel Legion. Some might like to hope they'll be re-released in plastic, but GW would likely view that as stepping on FW's aesthetic toes, and again, GW does not like money.

Of course, once upon a time, much like Marines, the Imperial Guard all wore the same uniform in different colours. Given the retro focus of 6th edition, this would be a perfect time to re-introduce Steel Legion using Cadian models...

 Goldshield wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
Am I the only one hoping for a more Lost and the Damned style focus for this...........Hopefully it'll bring in mutants and traitors and the lesser followers which have been sadly absent for so long and maybe flesh out the cultists some more.

You're not the only one. But I think LatD would be better served with their own supplement though and not having to piggyback off of someone else with a few half-arsed entries. I want Queen to come on in my head with "I Want It All" when I open that supplement filled with mutants, traitors, cultists, witches and every other Warp-spawned abomination in the galaxy. *drools*

I think AL, IW, and NL have better need for supplements, but I am glad for BL players. Hope it is good.

And yes for the Catachans supplement. I have a friend that is itching to get his Tanith out of the box again with some good light infantry ambush rules.

If it is true that Armageddon is being represented with BT and Orks more, it would be nice to see a Steel Legion supplement (Fat chance I'm sure though).

Actually, what LatD should be is a supplement for CSM & IG. Combining the two to allow for various trained militia groups and mutants, but at the same time allowing for things like the Blood Cult's well trained army.

What I have heard is that these supplements are going to start to include a micro-release of one or two models. These will not be brand new units/characters, but replacement "kits" for existing models. Basically, it will be a way to generate buzz around kits that are being updated and keep armies feeling fresh without needing to add something totally new.

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Black Legion? For real? Ugh.

Let's see...they could have done...

Siege Army Iron Warriors.
Terror Striking Night Lords
Zealot Word Bearers
Infiltration and Sneaky Alpha Legion

All of which have a hell of a time being represented with the current Chaos Codex.

They could also have done something for the Red Corsairs (using some Imperial kit to show their defection was only recent) and added flavour there.

But instead we get...

The Legion the Codex itself is supposed to be able of representing with no form of counts-as or stretches of imagination...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Wait. Wait. Wait.

Black Legion? For real? Ugh.

Let's see...they could have done...

Siege Army Iron Warriors.
Terror Striking Night Lords
Zealot Word Bearers
Infiltration and Sneaky Alpha Legion

All of which have a hell of a time being represented with the current Chaos Codex.

They could also have done something for the Red Corsairs (using some Imperial kit to show their defection was only recent) and added flavour there.

But instead we get...

The Legion the Codex itself is supposed to be able of representing with no form of counts-as or stretches of imagination...

Actually the funny thing is you CAN'T run how it is supposed to be, seeing as you should be able to take all cult troops without needing a lord (Seeing as they have all the cults and is undivided). You cannot do that, and so they actually do have a weird thing that allows them.

But... But... Why?

Black Legion?

BLACK LEGION!!!!

They are completely vanilla CSM. That is like having a Cadian supplement for the IG codex, or an Ultramarines supplement for SM.

Seriously! They could have done any other legion, but black legion. Death Guard, great, Word Bearers, awesome, World Eaters, cool, Lost and the Damned even. A mutants and renegades supplement would be great.

I just don't understand this. Hopefully this is a troll