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It is up on itunes for pre-order.

Here is the web based link.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/black-legion-codex-chaos-space/id686704490?mt=11

I also posted the sample pictures on my blog if anyone wants to see them all in one place.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/08/09/network-news-marines-move-black-legion/

 tastytaste wrote:
It is up on itunes for pre-order.

Here is the web based link.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/black-legion-codex-chaos-space/id686704490?mt=11

I also posted the sample pictures on my blog if anyone wants to see them all in one place.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/08/09/network-news-marines-move-black-legion/

Thanks Tasty!
Interesting, so all models with an option for VotLW must take it. It was pretty obvious but still cool nonetheless.
Seeing models painted in the black legion color scheme was impressive, especially the Chosen from DV.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 tastytaste wrote:
It is up on itunes for pre-order.

Here is the web based link.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/black-legion-codex-chaos-space/id686704490?mt=11

I also posted the sample pictures on my blog if anyone wants to see them all in one place.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/08/09/network-news-marines-move-black-legion/

Thanks Tasty!
Interesting, so all models with an option for VotLW must take it. It was pretty obvious but still cool nonetheless.
Seeing models painted in the black legion color scheme was impressive, especially the Chosen from DV.

No problem!

I am also kinda impressed that GW used some cool lighting techniques for some of the images.

That cover art is honestly the best I've seen in a long time.

Also the fact that they have their own mono-god warbands is kinda interesting. The Hounds of Abbadon is pretty cool, seeing them having a Mark of khorne, with a stripe of red with a colored pauldron to show their khornate colors while the rest of the color being black legion is a nice touch.

Along with trying to carve away the genericness niche, by giving them tons of Elite units that also happens to be the most populated chapter.

Which would still be a step up from most Generic Legion in the game.

yessssssssss. bring it.

Hounds of Abbadon are pretty cool, be bit disappointing if its just Chosen and units must take VotLW that makes them different.
I do like the idea of these add ons but just not the prices

Seeing those images I must say that Abaddon himself is still a nice model - almost charmingly understated compared to modern-day character models. If they were to recreate him as is, just larger - I'd happily buy him...

Wonder how long I will have to wait until I see it in print and not on some apple gak

Probably end of the year, given we're not seeing a physical copy of the Farsight book until October at present.

I thought that GW was phasing out the whole iPad only thing?

I like real books. There is just something about the feel of the book in your hand, or the weight of the metal miniature when you pick it up... oh wait... I'm old.

I will hold out until the actual book comes out if at all possible. She-who-must-be-obeyed may say differently since our Black Legion army is technically hers and my Daemons/GK have been whooping them.

From the preview I'm a bit wary about the supplement. I know a lot of people are banking on this "fixing" chaos in a sense (i.e. an alternative to heldrake spam).

The preview however forces all units to take veterans of the long war (ouch) in exchange for making chosen troops. Seems like a bad deal.

Hopefully the rest of the book surprises us.

Hopefully the rules will have something more to them than just 'troop chosen, at the cost of having to buy vets upgrades on everything', because if that's the bulk of it, then running lists from this book will be actively worse than just using the regular CSM codex. Chosen are bad, and requiring a 2 point fluff upgrade only makes them worse. And while vets isn't awful on those units where it only costs a point, it is a pretty significant penalty for any unit that has to spend more than a single point on it. Far from providing an alternative to drake spam, something tells me the only thing the competitive scene will get out of this book is the option for minmax CSM armies to run four drakes in a single force org by allying with themselves.

No big deal though. I wasn't expecting this book to bring anything that non-Black Legion players would care about, and even as a Black Legion player, I can always get the book for the fluff, and run my lists out of the regular codex.

Of course, that's if I buy this book at all. I don't have and don't want an ipad, and the ebook version isn't out until september, at which point I'll be back in classes, and won't have much time for 40k anyway. I can understand the delay between digital and physical releases, but did the Farsight book have an arbitrary 3 week delay between the ibook and ebook releases? I sure hope apple's giving them a sweet deal to push their oversized, overpriced ipod.

At least the cover looks nice. Or rather, what of it you can see in the ipod's landscape format does.

To clarify, would I need Codex: Chaos Space Marines to play with this supplement?

Killme304 wrote:
To clarify, would I need Codex: Chaos Space Marines to play with this supplement?

Yes.

This makes me extremely wary as well. I usually don't give VotLW to my units, especially to fearless ones. If I'm using berserkers (rarely in this edition), I'm usually running kharn, who makes VotLW useless. It's a tax that isn't for competitive lists, and makes chosen even less viable.

Well, you won't be running Kharn in a Black Legion list, and I'd argue that he's better off with cultists than berzerkers regardless.

I don't necessarily mind the vets requirement - representing the Black Legions unifying hatred. But I should hope there's more than troop chosen to compensate that restriction, because chaos chosen are bad as is, and forcing them to spend two extra points a model on what amounts to a fluff benefit isn't doing them any favors.

Where are you guys getting "must take votlw?" For all we know it gives you it for free.

And we also don't know for sure yet that the only thing it changes is chosen as troops. Farsight in the normal tao dex doesn't make suits troops, but his supplement did. For all we know, chosen are still elite unless we take the war master. No where in what was spoiled suggest otherwise. For all we know, it makes chosen cost less points, or maybe even make it so we can take different BL only units (like those hounds we got a picture of). Hell, there could even be rules that give you bonuses for taking a unit with each type of mark. We don't know yet, and nothing solid has been leaked.

 BladeWalker wrote:
I like real books. There is just something about the feel of the book in your hand, or the weight of the metal miniature when you pick it up... oh wait... I'm old.

I will hold out until the actual book comes out if at all possible. She-who-must-be-obeyed may say differently since our Black Legion army is technically hers and my Daemons/GK have been whooping them.

LOL, that is funny.

Who is the author for this?

Killme304 wrote:
Where are you guys getting "must take votlw?" For all we know it gives you it for free.

From the preview page in the link above (the one with The Black Crusades at the top): "... any units in the Black Legion that can do so must be upgraded to VotLW..."

It's also saying that Chosen can be taken as troops, meaning it's possible that you won't need Abaddon as your HQ choice to do so.

That's more dubious. Abaddon is available to the black legion, so that line could only be talking about the existing option to take chosen as troops with him in the army. Having to buy the vets upgrade is pretty solid, though. I'm hoping we get something decent for it, because it is not worth it on many or even most of the units that can take it, so it's definitely a penalty, rather than a neutral requirement.

And chaos chosen are not good, so even if they are troops without abby, I would not consider that an even trade. If they had access to drop pods or affordable assault transports maybe, but they don't.

 Malisteen wrote:
That's more dubious. Abaddon is available to the black legion, so that line could only be talking about the existing option to take chosen as troops with him in the army. Having to buy the vets upgrade is pretty solid, though. I'm hoping we get something decent for it, because it is not worth it on many or even most of the units that can take it, so it's definitely a penalty, rather than a neutral requirement.

And chaos chosen are not good, so even if they are troops without abby, I would not consider that an even trade. If they had access to drop pods or affordable assault transports maybe, but they don't.

Agreed, veterans of the long war isn't much of a benefit on most troops. Alongside that Chosen are just Chaos space marines who can take some special weapons, and aren't really impressive considering once you begin to outfit them for close combat, you'll find Terminators and normal marines can be just as effective.

a chosen with vets and a power weapon is one point more than a terminator with the vets upgrade. A chosen with just the vets upgrade is half again the cost of a CSM vet. There's just no justifying that points cost.

Again, with the possible exception of min size with the required vets plus a lascannon. That's about 20 points more than I'd want to spend on that unit, but it does seem to be a way to use them that isn't just completely outclassed by other, more points efficient options.

If FW ever gave them an affordable dedicated assault transport (something in the 150 to 200 points range, instead of the 300+ points range), or if we ever see a re-vamped dreadclaw that works and costs more like a drop pod as a dedicated transport for them... Or maybe if GW ever decided they wanted to print some money by sticking a spikey bit sprue in the drop pod or storm raven box and adding them to the CSM book via white dwarf....

If any of that happened, then the close combat and special weapon spam builds for chosen might start feeling more worthwhile. But in the mean time, not so much, from what I can tell.

I will try them out, though, just to see if I can find some way to make them work. If I find configurations I like, I might pick up some puppetswar barbarian armors to represent them, what with the lack of an actual chosen box.


Of course, all of that is assuming that the supplement does make chosen troops without fielding abby, which is facts not in evidence at the moment. If it does, I wonder if Abby will get some extra special rule to compensate for the one that doesn't matter anymore. Maybe troop terminators? I know some folks have been wanting to see that in chaos for a while. I wonder if it would be worth it, with 300 odd points of tax between abby himself and the vets upgrade (three points apiece on termies, yuck).

If everything proves to be true, this could be good for some and bad for others. I feel like this might be an attempt to preempt CSM complaints of the new SM codex by making BL armies a bit more effective versus the new loyalists.

My local meta appears even more marines/knights heavy than even usual, so I personally will thoroughly enjoy 4 attacks on the charge with re-rolls to hit from Chosen troops in addition to plasma/melta spam.

Except that, without storm ravens or crusaders, when are you ever going to charge with chosen? The chaos land raider is throwing good points after bad, and the rhino just doesn't cut it for delivering units to assault. Maybe special weapon spam from rhinos, but that configuration really only works for loyalist marines thanks to drop pods, I don't see it working well for chaos without them.

They need better deployment options than just walk or rhino. Until then, they're just CSMs that you spent 50 to 100 extra points on for hardly any return.

I might be reaching here, but it's important to note it says "CHANGES and additions to the rules." Therefore it might change how current CSM things work. Maybe add something extra to vets? Fearless would be nice.

herpguy wrote:
I might be reaching here, but it's important to note it says "CHANGES and additions to the rules." Therefore it might change how current CSM things work. Maybe add something extra to vets? Fearless would be nice.

If there is a change to the existing Chaos Space Marine codex, it will be through an FAQ.

 Malisteen wrote:
That's more dubious. Abaddon is available to the black legion, so that line could only be talking about the existing option to take chosen as troops with him in the army. Having to buy the vets upgrade is pretty solid, though. I'm hoping we get something decent for it, because it is not worth it on many or even most of the units that can take it, so it's definitely a penalty, rather than a neutral requirement.

And chaos chosen are not good, so even if they are troops without abby, I would not consider that an even trade. If they had access to drop pods or affordable assault transports maybe, but they don't.

Well, if there's one thing the CSM codex seems to do well it's actively penalize the player for using it. Being the pre-eminent CSM faction it makes sense for Black Legion to do the same but moreso!

I mean as in changing how a rule from the CSM book carries over to the black legion supplement.