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Well, it's out for purchase and download now. So shouldn't be long before we hear all about it.

If anyone has a copy and wants to clarify some rumors it would be appreciated lol

From some dude on B&C who downloaded it

Just had a quick flip through the new artefacts are neat as are warlord traits. Can ally with c:csm and chosen are troops by default. Votlw mandatory and if taking abaddon, one unit of termies can get +1 ws and bs for a price. No new units or characters.

:edit: On warseer

Cheexsta wrote:
Supplement is out in Australia.

There's a new Daemon Sword, slightly cheaper than the Axe of a Blind Fury. Gives a bonus to initiative. Should've always been in the codex, IMHO.

There's an awesome artefact that allows the bearer to fire an unlimited range large blast that scores D3 automatic penetrating hits to any vehicle it touches, usable once per game. Very expensive, though.

A psyker-only artefact increases the bearer's mastery by 1, though it doesn't allow him to generate another power (boo). Instead, it gives him a Nova power that increases range with more Warp Charge points.

Oh hey, an artefact that gives Eternal Warrior and Adamanitium Will. Nice. Not cheap, though.

Warlord Traits:
1. Black Crusader
2. Rerolls to Chaos Boon table for the Warlord.
3. A one-use Flamer. Woo.
4. Warlord has IWND.
5. Attacks have a chance of causing Instant Death.
6. Friendly units near the Warlord have Stubborn.

Haven't looked at the fluff or CoD or Planetstrike sections yet.

Seems interesting so far, I'm looking forward to seeing points costs. Looks reasonably inspired so far!

Sounds like I get to save 30 bucks.

I guess the supplements really are for collectors. None of the 3 books so far have been an improvement over the original codex. I suppose in the case of Eldar and Tau an improvement would have been hard as those books are excellent. I had hope that the BL would allow some manipulation of the FOC.

bogalubov wrote:
. I had hope that the BL would allow some manipulation of the FOC.

It does. You get to take 4 Heldrakes when you ally with CSM.

DarthDiggler wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
. I had hope that the BL would allow some manipulation of the FOC.

It does. You get to take 4 Heldrakes when you ally with CSM.

because thats EXACTLY what we want/need.

Sounds like a bummer.

I've just flicked through the rules and I'm quite disappointed. I own the Eldar and Tau supplements and I really liked them, especially the Eldar one. Black Legion however, which just happens to be my favourite Chaos army, seems to have been given a rather mediocre supplement to go with the codex. Most of the warlord traits are good, but the special rules aren't that great and only some of the artefacts are worth the points. Rather a shame to be honest. Looks like another edition of no love for the Chaos boys

To be fair, with how terrible the CSM warlord traits are, any option to replace them is a good one. Really, they got one that isn't horrible and that one is best acquired by taking Huron.

Could anyone that has it, Elaborate on the rules a bit more?

Yeah, you guys are reading this all wrong.

Chaos just got a 175 point CSM unit with 5 plasma that can score.

Who cares about warlord traits when I can run 6 of these squads and 3 heldrakes? Anything else is icing.

Chaos could do that before. Abaddon made CSM Chosen Troops. Now, you can do that without paying for Abbie, and take a 4th Heldrake along for the ride. Letting supplement forces ally with the main book might be one of those things that GW fixes in a hurry.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Yeah, you guys are reading this all wrong.

Chaos just got a 175 point CSM unit with 5 plasma that can score.

Who cares about warlord traits when I can run 6 of these squads and 3 heldrakes? Anything else is icing.

Unfortunately that kind of army does nothing for me as I hate spam and like to actually have choices from all over the book

Of course, I'm not a competitive gamer, so maybe my point is irrelevant lol

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Chaos could do that before. Abaddon made CSM Chosen Troops.

Yeah, but you had to take Abaddon, and now you can do this with a cheap CL. That's hardly the same.

I don't see how a codex should be able to ally with it's own supplement. And now C:SM power gamers want to ally with C:SM because "chapter tactics". This is getting funny.

 livanbard wrote:
I don't see how a codex should be able to ally with it's own supplement. And now C:SM power gamers want to ally with C:SM because "chapter tactics". This is getting funny.

A codex =/= a single unified army. Supplements provide for alternate factions that use the same basic ruleset as the main codex, but are apart from it. Codex: UM seems to be a case of being more like a compendium of 7 supplements all in one book with the chapter traits system. And hopefully Chaos MArines will get a similar treatment to cover the legions later.

GW not selling enough Helldrakes that is why they letting the BL field 4 of them now?

How is the stories in the BL supplement?

So no new land raider variants or terminators as troops in the supplement?

 techsoldaten wrote:
Who cares about warlord traits when I can run 6 of these squads and 3 heldrakes? Anything else is icing.

You mean anything else is over your points limit? Those chosen aren't going to get within range to shoot anything without rhinos, and with rhinos just what you listed above comes to 1740 points. And that's without an HQ, without anti-air apart from drakes, which aren't exactly great at that, without an answer for AV14, and with only 30 scoring bodies, all of which die like regular CSMs despite costing nearly three times the points, and that's before taking casualties to your own plasmafire. I'm not saying plasma chosen spam won't be a thing for Black Legion, it very well may be, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's going to be as big a thing as you're making out.

Davor wrote:
GW not selling enough Helldrakes that is why they letting the BL field 4 of them now?

How is the stories in the BL supplement?

If anything, I have a feeling people will want to field more Chosen instead of Heldrakes under the new rules. A 5 man plasma squad costs about the same and is going to be able to affect a wider range of units. For that matter, it's cheaper to give them all meltas.

While I realize part of the appeal of a Heldrake is the fact it flies, diversity rarely hurts an army and it's not like these guys are guardsmen. With making Chosen troops, Chaos just got a lot more diverse.

i can see no real reason to run this book as anything other than an ally detachment. it just makes every unit more expensive to take ( enforced VotLW ) , the terminator buff costs as much as a 2 LC and can only be 1 unit when abby is the wl in the primary detachment and the artefacts are a touch average and cant be mixed with the main codex ones.... another sad day for csm

 techsoldaten wrote:
While I realize part of the appeal of a Heldrake is the fact it flies, diversity rarely hurts an army and it's not like these guys are guardsmen. With making Chosen troops, Chaos just got a lot more diverse.

Maybe. Chosen are pricey, especially with the required vets upgrades, and so are their options. And they notably lack the transport options that make loyalist sternguard intimidating. It's a lot harder to get your 200 point squad of five marines into rapid fire or melta range with a rhino than it is with a drop pod.


If Black Legion can't field the artifacts from the main dex, then that is a significant blow as well. The burning brand is more effective and points efficient than anything we've heard about from the BL supplement, and the blinding axe is chaos's only native option for AP2 melee at initiative outside of the crazy expensive daemon prince. While it's nice to finally have a daemon sword, going from two daemon weapons to one isn't inspiring, either.


Also, the appeal of the drake is that it slaughters any infantry short of terminators, and does so while ignoring cover, and after cracking their transports itself with its vector strike, and that it does all that while being incredibly cheap and nigh impossible to bring down. Chosen score in GL armies, sure, but that's only if they survive the match. Dead models don't score, and squads of five chosen are super fragile, easily gunned down or chopped apart by pretty much anything that looks at them funny, and with plasma they cost more than drakes, even before their rhinos.

I'm not saying they're bad, or that you'll never see chosenwings now that they can be taken without abaddon, but they're not going to have anything like the impact on the game that drakes have. Drakes invalidate entire army compositions merely by existing.

 Malisteen wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Who cares about warlord traits when I can run 6 of these squads and 3 heldrakes? Anything else is icing.

You mean anything else is over your points limit? Those chosen aren't going to get within range to shoot anything without rhinos, and with rhinos just what you listed above comes to 1740 points. And that's without an HQ, without anti-air apart from drakes, which aren't exactly great at that, without an answer for AV14, and with only 30 scoring bodies, all of which die like regular CSMs despite costing nearly three times the points, and that's before taking casualties to your own plasmafire. I'm not saying plasma chosen spam won't be a thing for Black Legion, it very well may be, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's going to be as big a thing as you're making out.

Thank you, I appreciate you for pointing out my comment was not a list or practical in most games.

What I was saying is, seriously, who cares about the warlord traits or the terminator rules when you can get a ton of plasma, meltas, flamers, etc? This rule alone makes the supplement pretty important.

If GW ever gives CSMs drop pods, or if FW ever gets around to updating the dreadclaw, revising the rules (seriously, the 'current' rules reference the old FW drop pod rules, which were invalidated by the 4th ed SM codex years ago), lowering the cost, and giving it to the CSM elite units at least as a dedicated transport instead of making it a separate fast attack, then you're certainly going to see some more build variety out of this supplement. Until then, though, I don't expect chosenwing is going to have too great an impact on the game. The points cost is just too hefty. I mean, CSM already has scoring units of effectively all special weapons in the form of thousand sons, and they're considered all but unusable because of their points cost. Chosen with the vets upgrade and a special weapon are similarly pricy - too pricy, I think, for a model with only basic marine defenses, to build an entire army around and still be able to function once you start taking fire.

I've been wrong before, though, so we'll see.

no drop pods for my boys, effffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff you GW.

I can't comprehend how anybody can even attempt to argue that chosen spam is even remotely viable. The bottom line is: chosen are bad, just plain horrible. Forcing them to pay a 2 pt tax per model just puts them in the "unusable" section of 40k. To put it in perspective, a BL chosen is the same amount of points as a GK, which comes with a super-duper force weapon, a storm bolter, and ATSKNF, which is probably the most underrated rule in the game, and GK aren't even considered to be top tier anymore by many.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
i can see no real reason to run this book as anything other than an ally detachment. it just makes every unit more expensive to take ( enforced VotLW ) , the terminator buff costs as much as a 2 LC and can only be 1 unit when abby is the wl in the primary detachment and the artefacts are a touch average and cant be mixed with the main codex ones.... another sad day for csm

What is the terminator buff?

Please tell me the Hounds of Abaddon are a new unit and not just fluff for Chosen with the MoK...

 Juggalo17 wrote:

What is the terminator buff?

WS +1 BS +1

For Artifacts not mixing, is it like the Iyanden book, where you can't mix on the same character, or is it more restrictive in that you can either have Artifacts from one book or the other?

Please tell me the Hounds of Abaddon are a new unit and not just fluff for Chosen with the MoK..

Doesn't look like it, with the following quote:

ust had a quick flip through the new artefacts are neat as are warlord traits. Can ally with c:csm and chosen are troops by default. Votlw mandatory and if taking abaddon, one unit of termies can get +1 ws and bs for a price. No new units or characters

.

I have the book. AMA

Hounds of Abaddon are pure fluff. There is a page like that for each of the Gods, I think they are trying to get people to paint things up in something besides black.

The only restrictions on artefact mixing are same character.

The terminator buff is +1WS and +1BS for 6 points per model.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the warlord traits are not so bad. You can get stubborn, instant death, it will not die, or preferred enemy on 4 of the six rolls. The other items are a one time use shooting attack and rerolls on chaos boon tables.

I could see taking one of these.