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So about an hour ago I played probably the worst game of my life and I am baffled. My first real 2k game against Tau and holy crap wtf! I run a Grey Knights Mordrak list that doesn't have a lot of models but usually fairs pretty well, not this time. A big reason was terrible rolls but even if some of them went my way I'm not sure I could have overcome this. My list was..

HQ
Mordrak
Librarian lvl3 w/ Summon, Might, and Quick

Elite
2x Psyfle Dread
6man Pally Squad w/ banner, Apothecary, Incin, and Psycannon

Troops
2x 5man Strikes with Psycannon

Heavy
2x Dks w/ Heavy Psycannon and Sword

My strat is Turn 1 DS Mordrak, Libby, and Pallys. Libby summons both DKs and I blast away. Grand Strat the Dreads and keep them at distance holding objectives. Slowly move the Strikes up to grab objectives and/or support later. Mordraks squad becomes Str9 Int10 with like 2+ 3or4++ 5+++. I know it's very few models but usually they are impossible to kill and when they get into CC they just win.

I played a tau army that was something like this though I don't know the real terms.

HQ
Farsight

Elite
6 or 7 Crisis suits w/ Tau plasma and meltas on all plus like 20 drones
2x Riptides that did like str8 ap2 large blast

Troops
10 man fire warriors i believe
2x 10man kroot

Fast Attack
2x 6man I think? Pathfinders

Heavy
3x Hammerheads with 6 strong missiles each

He knew what I was doing with Mordrak and took up his entire deplotment zone so I couldn't DS behind him and because of terrain literally had to DS right in front of everything but I did so in the best cover I could find. Summoned my DKs. His turn 1 he killed both DKs and half my Pallies because everything in that damn army is ap1 or ap2 and double my toughness. I failed my assaults turn 2 and 3 which basically ended the game. I managed to kill 12 drones total and he tabled me turn 3.

So if I see this army in the future what can a GK army do against it because obviously this wasn't the answer. Any help appreciated.

I play Tau. If I play against a drop list I pray they drop in front of me. Don't do it. Sure, you will get some shots, but next round you are gonna take it in the face, bad.

Yeah I was seriously embarassed after this game. Like tail between legs, head down, I farted and it smells like I sh** myself embarassed. I'm not a super competitive guy, I mean I played a 6 month long Escalation League with Blood Angels in 6th. Trust me, I'm used to losing. But for a 2k point army to kill 12 drones, and I am not exagerating all I killed was 12 drones, that made me want to sell my army. Plus the store I'm at has a Magic release event tonight so like 100 people walking around watching me get destroyed and asking stupid questions like "Is that your dead pile?" No I decided to play this game with 6 models FFS....God I felt like papercutting them to death with their stupid cards.

Tau are a really tough list to fight against. I've heard a lot of people who've lost to them like you just did. The whole army seems predicated on the idea of beating their opponent before they have a chance to play.

Kinda reminds me of the time I fought a GK interceptor list with my Daemons. The guy seizes initiative, moves far out, and does his psychic shenanigans to prevent my from deep-striking in. First turn only 2 units made it to the board without incident, a unit of nurglings, and my soul grinder (go figure). Neither survived long enough to do anything. I basically got tabled by turn 3. The prick even had the sand to look me in the face and say "good game, man." I was not amused.

That's pretty embarrassing. I will just give some pointers as I think of them.

The first piece of advice I can give is that DS a small number of important models in front of a Tau army is usually not a great idea.

You are trying to be too good in CC. Against Tau it is better to be just good enough to reliably wipe them in 2 turns of CC (to avoid return fire). Saying this your libby could take a Tau firewarrior squad by himself in CC, this gives you an idea of approximately the right amount of punch you need. So get into CC often and stay there.

With these two points in mind. I would get teleporters on those dreadknights. This way Turn 1 you should have the ghosts/mordak, 2 dreadknights, and your paladin squad (summoned). You should be able to get some of these into CC.

You do not have to shoot. If shooting is going to keep you out of CC or make you kill the enemy models too fast don't shoot.

Fighting a gun battle with a Tau player is fighting a lost battle. The Tau player will outshoot you, I promise. So your "shooting" units are now assault units or fire bait if they actually accomplish any damage that is great but I wouldn't count on it. Therefore they need to accomplish one of 3 things; getting into CC, forcing the Tau player to burn markerlights (ie stay in good cover while being a threat they have to deal with), or killing the markerlights. You are GK so killing stuff in cover is not really your thing at range.

Target priority is key. Tau become less effective without markerlights. That fancy riptide looses alot of accuracy if you kill the pathfinders. The commander and pathfinders may therefore be the more important targets and the riptides can be ignored if you spread out in cover (assuming you killed the markerlights).

Did I mention you should kill the markerlights? In this endeavor you may want to add more incinerators/flamer weapons. Cover is how pathfinders stay alive.

Hope some of that helps.

I double checked the facts, but after looking at the FAQ there is no GK update that makes Mordrak a independent character. You GK 1st DS squad is illegal. The Librarian can join him legally, but the paladins cannot. The only unit that can join Mordrak is his own Ghost Knight Unit.

If you want the super long winded version of what to do, I've handidly written them down for you over some 60 pages =)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/460371.page

for what to do with GK

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517337.page

For what the Tau players are thinking about how to counter your abilities

Just check the first page first threads, no need to read all the pages unless you really want to.

TLDR version -

as pointed out above, Modrak can't join paladins so you are going to need to re-write your list from the ground up.

Deep striking in front of Tau is generally suicidal to say the least especially with a mostly foot assault and not even very fast unit at that.

Play to the objective. Unless you guys were doing kill points only or something, The Tau will need to get out of their castle if they want to win.

Summoning things just isn't as good a strat especially as you can't summon 2 things in one turn as you are not allowed to cast the same power twice in one turn. DK's with teleporters are much much better as shunt is much more reliable and does not trigger interceptor fire.

If you insist in doing a modrak list, go second and scout up the 2 dk's with their teleporters. They could be in range for a turn 1 charge or turn 2 at the latest. If your board has no LOS blocking terrain then you really need a new terrain set up. Otherwise just play Tau yourself as LOS is the only thing that gives you any advantage to assault units or anything non-gunline in general.

Ally in some space wolves and try to JAWS the riptides/crisis suits. Always a good time if you manage to survive the interceptor fire. (rune priests in pods are awesome fun). Ally in some necrons also works. Ally in some guard artillery will also work wonders.

Lots of options but your list as it stands is not gonna cut it as #1 it's not actually legal and #2, there are much better options to give you the tactical flexibility that you will need to live as GK in 6th new meta. (Hint: a lot of us are going for shunt lists with shunting DK's and interceptors as the latest "meta") Allies are your friend.

One thing new tau are less good at is dealing with armor 14. Switching from deep striking to land raiders as your delivery system might be a good idea.

As stated, Mordrak is not an IC so cannot join or be joined by paladins. A Libby that starts in reserves cannot use the summoning the same turn he arrives, and can only use it once per turn.

You'll find that 6th edition is very unforgiving on small elite armies, especially against tau who specialize in causing casualties effectively.

If you insist on Mordrak, I'd ditch the Libby/summon gimmick and take coteaz with several cheap henchmen units in chimeras or razorbacks. Even a land raider. NDKs with teleporters and incinerators are solid too.

u should get as many melee guys as possible

AngelusMortis wrote:


My strat is Turn 1 DS Mordrak, Libby, and Pallys. Libby summons both DKs and I blast away.

Actually, I hate to burst your bubble even harder but there are more problems with this. Not only is Mordrak not an Independent character (and thus unable to join any unit other than his Ghost Knights), you have misused Summoning as well. Your Librarian has to be on the table at the start of any turn in which he uses Summoning. Ergo, he cannot deep strike and then use Summoning to bring the DKs forward. If you pay for Teleporters for both DK's and use Grand Strategy to give them both Scouts, then they should be able to get into range for their guns on the first turn.


Also, and here's the part that will suck: Riptides with Interceptor and Ion Accelerators. S9 AP2 pie plates of instant death just begging you to bring Paladins down from deep strike. Abandon any Deep Strike tactics when facing a well-equipped Tau player. Instead, stay out of sight and try to flank around the edges of LOS-blocking terrain. Sure, some of their missiles don't need LOS, but they're nowhere near as bad as what can go wrong if you bring your guys in all clumped up and give him a free shot (it honestly appears that you did not even get the worst of what could have befallen you in this game, despite how badly it went for you).


Now, some more advice. Being a GK player as well as an old-school Tau player, I can safely say that properly kitted Tau have always been a hard counter to GK. I almost never failed to place first in our local tournaments with my GK (I'm basically TFG) and one of the few times an army actually just trounced me and sent me packing was with Tau, and that was in 5ed without all their new toys. They have GK outranged, outgunned, and as you said damn near everything they have is going to be Insta-kill and AP1/2. The specific unit you got hit with is being referred to as the Farsight Bomb and it's a GK killer if ever there was one. My honest advice to you is to not run a pure GK list in this edition. I would actually take some IG allies to let you bring a heavy weapon platoon and a manticore to the party, get lots and lots of shots softening the Tau up while you trudge your GK units up field. Mordrak as you're trying to use him is not a great plan, since you've got the rules all befuddled. Maybe switch the Pallies out for Ghost Knights (to make the tactic legal) and use the extra points to give the DK's Jump Packs and switch out the swords for Heavy Incinerators (sweep away that protective layer of drones in that big suit squad before you punch holes in his suits with bigger guns).

Now, keep in mind that in that giant deathstar unit the real threat was not Farsight, but a weaponless support suit that multiplies the power of the whole unit. Kill that guy with a Vindicaire and you've halved the squad's effectiveness. Those "Hammerheads with Missiles" were Sky Rays, and they need Markerlights to even use their big missiles. Take out the pathfinders (so easy, they die to a stiff breeze, and your DK's Heavy Incinerator will wipe a way a whole unit at a time with no cover saves) and the Sky Rays are basically neutered.

Now then, back to the Mordrak and Librarian bomb. Now that you've given teleporters to your DK's to get them across the field quickly, let's address your Mordrak Bomb, and more importantly, let's ask the question "Why does your Librarian not have Warp Rift?" That's just about the strongest power in the codex. Switch Summoning out for Rift (since summoning wont work for you) and keep in mind that Mordrak's unit does not scatter. Hey, wait a second, you know what has Initiative 2? A riptide. If possible, bring down your Bomb squad right next to a riptide, but where the template could be moved to hit another unit as well. Declare that other unit the target, and the riptide will be swept up as collateral damage while the squad's bolters chew up the enemy. Seriously, Rift is like the best thing you have for killing Tau (and necrons). If you've scouted and then jumped/flamed with your 2 DKs, you should have enough big targets up in his face at the end of your first turn to cause him to seriously re-evaluate the idea of standing his ground and he may devote a lot of his time to fleeing in panic.

Thanks for all the advice everyone...I am just starting out with GK as I said so it's a learning experience. I proxyed most of my army(all I have so far is a Strike Squad, Paladins and a used Standard Bearer, Brother Captain, Inquis,RBack, and a leftover unpainted LRR from my BA) so at least I didn't spend the money on it yet =P.

@sudojoe
Thats a really awesome gift to anyone starting and when I have a free day or 3 lol I will read through it.

@Ninjastars
I may look into another LR for some banging around..you can never have too many right?

@hyv3mynd
I love Mordraks story and his rules are actually pretty decent.
I don't like running that list everyone is running so I want to come up with something involving him that works

@bossfearless
Before I read your post I realized a lot of what you said this afternoon. Summoning occurs before the movement phase and since I DSed I guess it has already begun so I will can that idea. That being said when I played my buddies Eldar Wraith List and that squad chewed through(though illegal the ghost knights would have still been damn near as effective) a Wraithknight in 1 turn the look on his face was priceless. If I am playing them right which I think I am though after this I'm not sure. 3xHammerhand(Squad, Mordrak, and Libby 2x if I activate force weapons), Banner, Might of Titan, and Quicksilver give me a S9 Init10 AP3 wrecking ball. They wound up taking out something like 1 wraithknight, his HQ, and 4 wraithguard/blade squads with like 2 casualties total. Can't expect that with Ghost because of the WS4 but it's also a lot cheaper.

Grand Strategy Scout the DKs?? Can you shunt on that scout move?? Even if you can't I love it but if you can it's even sexier. It doesn't say it has to be during the movement phase..just says once per game instead of moving.

Warp Rift....oh I read that today. How did I miss this skill...?

So on to a more upgraded, hopefully legal, can't be worse list. Feel free to rip it apart..I'm going to beta test it anyway. Please keep in mind I really want to run Mordrak...I don't want a Coteaz list like everyone else does. Eventually when I get this to work somewhat or during next Escalation league which starts September I believe I may succumb and buy it up when I get a 20% discount for being an active league member.

HQ
Mordrak
5man Ghost Knight w/ 1 Banner and 4 Swords

Librarian
Mastery lvl 3
3x Servo Skulls
Might of Titan, Quicksilver, and Warp Rift

Elites
6man Paladin Squad
1x Banner
1x Hammer
2x Halberd
2x Sword
2x MC Psycannon

Troops
6man Strike Squad
1x Hammer
5x Sword
1x Psycannon
Dedicated Rback with Psybolt TL HB

6man Strike Squad
1x Hammer
5x Sword
1x Psycannon
Dedicated Rback with Psybolt TL HB

Heavy
1x Dreadknight
Greatsword
Heavy Incinerator
Teleporter

1x Dreadknight
Greatsword
Heavy Incinerator
Teleporter

2000pts even

Still DS Mordrak, Libby, and Ghost Knights turn 1 in their face. Scout move the DKs with GS. Lay down skulls for Pally DS and prevent Scout moves at the top of opponents DZ. Hopefully I can DS the Pally opposite side of Mordrak with the DKs coming somewhat up the middle to bottle them in. Let mayhem ensue. Tell me what you think please.

On a side note I think I'm going to have to read through different codices to see stat lines on what everyone is playing...I don't think I am familiar enough with other armies because of lack of experience. I've only started playing again about 9 months since I quit during 3rd edition many moons ago.