Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/07/black-templar-rumors-crusade-army.html#more

Much more detailed rumors from Natfka.

Cheaper points cost then DA?
Are BT guardsmen vets with boltguns from now on? 0.0

I hope BT will get Sergeants (they can be called something else.) It never made any sense to me that they didn't have them, and now as challenges exist they absolutely should have them. Heroic duels is exactly the kind of thing space knights should excel at.

 Crimson wrote:
I hope BT will get Sergeants (they can be called something else.) It never made any sense to me that they didn't have them, and now as challenges exist they absolutely should have them. Heroic duels is exactly the kind of thing space knights should excel at.

Total agreement, there.

 Crimson wrote:
I hope BT will get Sergeants (they can be called something else.) It never made any sense to me that they didn't have them, and now as challenges exist they absolutely should have them. Heroic duels is exactly the kind of thing space knights should excel at.

Black Templars also seem like Chaos in that they shouldn't be able to refuse challenges.

Sounds like they might become very nice allies for Guard, give them some kind of CC element to protect the back ranks.

BT has a dedicated challenger, the EC.

I just dont want to lose our defining qualities. CC hordes bumrushing enemy lines. We will see what happens.

Bit annoyed with the possible removal of neophytes as they are now, perhaps the new fluff sees them in a squad by themselves overseen by an initiate or sword brethren.

Also agree with the duel superiority.

I think they will keep the marine horde feel, well, they better, or else

Anything about Orks? I've been thinking of starting a force if there's a new codex coming

 sing your life wrote:
Anything about Orks? I've been thinking of starting a force if there's a new codex coming

Shhh shhhh no more green, only black now.

Nah haven't read anything apart from they are coming.

I hope they make Orks for next year, Ive shelled enough into my CSM that my wallet has been sucked dry now ...

On a side not I hope they go for a bigger Kan/Walker thing, instead of a squig (Im more of a Kan man myself and I would love my army of scrap dreads to become good again, complete with a bigger Dredd ).

And I hop BT will get their own Codex, I hope they get a big Dread walker thing with a sword and shield and CHAINS!!! that looks like a bigger contemptor, yet with a crusader knight feel.. BT will always be my favourite non-vanilla faction, and they're actual knights as well which is awesome .

kronk wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I hope BT will get Sergeants (they can be called something else.) It never made any sense to me that they didn't have them, and now as challenges exist they absolutely should have them. Heroic duels is exactly the kind of thing space knights should excel at.

Total agreement, there.

Brother SRM wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I hope BT will get Sergeants (they can be called something else.) It never made any sense to me that they didn't have them, and now as challenges exist they absolutely should have them. Heroic duels is exactly the kind of thing space knights should excel at.

Black Templars also seem like Chaos in that they shouldn't be able to refuse challenges.

So BT need sergeants so you can challenge them????
Sorry, its not: challenge a Templar, its challenge the Templars...


If the focus is on "knights in space" and "crusade", the training of the neophyte and the lack of sergeants does follow the knightly template. To give this up and to replace it with just bigger squads and overequipped characters?

Next thing they say, we get mechanical steeds and charge em with lances.

Would be cool if every model in the bt codex could issue and accept challenges provided they make a LD test first

I wouldn't be surprised if packaging is a factor for GW ditching combined neophyte squads. They might prefer to have customers buy only one box off the shelf to fill a troop slot. And they might not want to dedicate shelf space for a combined BT-specific box.

Then again, these rumors are likely months away from the actual codex, and the accuracy of rumors this far out has seemed to be pretty atrocious lately. So it's almost certainly nothing to get too worked up about right now.

I'd be willing to give up Victims in my Crusader Squads if the Emperor's Champion gets his oomph back. Let him rip apart a Carnifex with his teeth, let him skull bash Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes. Make him custmisable so you can make him everything from a souped-up Sergeant to Death, Destroyer of Worlds ,Reincarnation of Sigismund. We don't have psykers or artillery; let our Chaplains kill people with eye beams, let our Sword Brethren chop their way through the enemy Samurai-style.

On a more serious note, I'd love if they played up the whole "honourable knight" part while making hubris and zealousness the weaknesses. Brother Bastilan from Helsreach is an excellent example, as is the ceremony at Grimaldus's promotion to Reclusiarch in the same book and Helbrecht's duel with Imotekh.

 davou wrote:
Would be cool if every model in the bt codex could issue and accept challenges provided they make a LD test first

That would just lead to weeny guys taking all the challenges. Funny and it would be great if there was some bonus for winning.

Neophyte after a daemon prince issues a challenge: Don't worry guys. I totally got this.

 pretre wrote:

 davou wrote:
Would be cool if every model in the bt codex could issue and accept challenges provided they make a LD test first

That would just lead to weeny guys taking all the challenges. Funny and it would be great if there was some bonus for winning.

You're saying this like we shouldn't be okay with it! Well, good sir, that sounds great! Lol

I would have thought the most senior (highest base cost?) model should HAVE to take or make the challenge

let an inferior steal my fight, no way!

(but i'd be cool with even marines or neophytes doing so if nobody higher up was available In the unit)

All the marines in the unit do a quick purity seal count and the one with the most accepts the challenge.

 gorgon wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if packaging is a factor for GW ditching combined neophyte squads. They might prefer to have customers buy only one box off the shelf to fill a troop slot. And they might not want to dedicate shelf space for a combined BT-specific box.

Then again, these rumors are likely months away from the actual codex, and the accuracy of rumors this far out has seemed to be pretty atrocious lately. So it's almost certainly nothing to get too worked up about right now.

Ditching combined Neophyte squads also removes the biggest hurdle to merging them in with Marines directly, or as a supplement.

As far as packaging goes, if they wanted to keep combined squads, they could easily make a box like the Wolf Pack, with parts for PA marines and extras to upgrade basic scout models.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd be willing to give up Victims in my Crusader Squads if the Emperor's Champion gets his oomph back. Let him rip apart a Carnifex with his teeth, let him skull bash Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes. Make him custmisable so you can make him everything from a souped-up Sergeant to Death, Destroyer of Worlds ,Reincarnation of Sigismund. We don't have psykers or artillery; let our Chaplains kill people with eye beams, let our Sword Brethren chop their way through the enemy Samurai-style.

On a more serious note, I'd love if they played up the whole "honourable knight" part while making hubris and zealousness the weaknesses. Brother Bastilan from Helsreach is an excellent example, as is the ceremony at Grimaldus's promotion to Reclusiarch in the same book and Helbrecht's duel with Imotekh.

That imagery just about sums up why the Templars are the best, they will annihilate your ass.

 pretre wrote:
All the marines in the unit do a quick purity seal count and the one with the most accepts the challenge.

A daemon prince issues a challenge. Roll one D3 for each marine in the squad. Each number represents the following results.

1: Rock

2: Paper

3: Scissors


Continue using elimination style tournament until only one Marine is left. This marine gets the honor of accepting the challenge.

If number of rounds exceeds 10 rounds, daemon prince must make a leadership test for impatience and frustration for each consecutive round.

Haha as if the prince would last a single round of combat against one of the Emperors faithful.

Even the lowliest of Neophytes can best a Daemon Prince in combat, such is their faith in BIG DADDY GOLD.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Haha as if the prince would last a single round of combat against one of the Emperors faithful.

The mechanic is actually meant to represent the Black Templars playing a Rock Paper Scissors game to determine who gets to accept the Daemon Prince's challenge.

Ah of course of course, apologies

I hope but I am highly doubtful there would be a plastic EC kit so I can pose one that simply says, "come at me bro."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Natfka:
"via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Neophytes get their own unit entry, 5-10 unit size, they're 0-X max, where X = squads with the crusader keyword (crusader squad, sword brethren, assault squads, bike squads). It seems like the terminators either don't take squires anymore or they fall under sword brethren.

They get attached to squads with the crusade keyword at the start of the game when the main squad is deployed or they can be deployed independently.

They're troops, but if they are attached to a unit they take on whatever squad type the parent squad is. Otherwise though they take up no force org.

Initiates come with bp/ccw and grenades, one in 5 can take an assault gun, and their squad size is 1-20. 11 points each. They can replace their weapons with blotters for a price. They're bs3, and can buy bs4 for a price.

Can take land raiders as dedicated transports at a really decent price reduction.

All power armoured models roll 3D6, pick the two highest to charge. Casualties they take from overwatch are done after initiative 1 attacks are resolved and before combat resolution using the new "closest models." (basically distributed as CC)

1-3 per choice elite champion-like model who takes vows. Vows are a lot like dark angel banners and revolve around objectives (defending or taking), but only apply to the unit they've joined and are a bit more toned down. Reminiscent of space wolf oaths.

HQs get access to better vows, and are different for chaplains and Captains. Emperor's champion is only required in games over 1500 points, does not take up an HQ slot and does not have macro-vows anymore, instead...

The army buys a vow for 0-40 points for every 1,000 or more points the army is. You can only buy one vow and it basically stacks in cost the bigger the army is.

Some vows are cheaper than others.

Vows have either an anti- psyker or xenos feel.

Wargear is significantly cheaper for BT characters.

Squads that have taken casualties are subject to rage for the remainder of the game."

Sounds like we really are gonna be the cc masters, come at us heathens, youll have no where to hide on the field.

MOTHER OF GOD.

First, I request this thread becomes Black Templar Rumors. Nobody is talking about SoB here.

Second, I really like what theyre doing here. The Neo squads make sense and it seems theyll still function as Black Tide on better. Losing Zeal will keep us on objectives, and squad vows sound like theyll help us hold them.

Third, who wants to bet we really are getting Neo and Brethren boxes, and that named EC? Rumors are definitely heating up; I think were pulling out of speculation territory now.

The only thing there that doesn't really sit well with me is the whole varying points scale for vows. While that's actually not a terrible idea for balance, it seems very un-GW to do. Points values haven't played part in army composition/list writing in quite some time, since early 4th when special characters weren't allowed in certain size games.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Points values haven't played part in army composition/list writing in quite some time, since early 4th when special characters weren't allowed in certain size games.

What do you mean by this?