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Is there such a thing as competitive Dark Eldar?

Or are they just a hit and miss army like I'v been reading?

(In case anyone is wondering iam trying to make a Dark Eldar army.. so far its going.. not too good)

thanks for your time
-jackblg-

DE are still a competitive army. 6th edition didn`t hurt DE much at all. The hull points don`t make the transports any worse because pens and glances killed them anyway in 5th. And the new night fight works in our favor much more than in 5th. However, combat isn't really an option anymore with overwatch and the new meta of large blob units and so lists need to be built around shooting. The only good assault unit now is beast-masters because they get across the table quickly and take fire away from the transports and deal out tons of wounds. If i were you id go for venom spam because venoms destroy blobs and mc`s, with 1 or 2 beast-master packs with razorwing flocks. But you also need to max out ravagers for anti tank just in case.

I played a buddy of mine who had just gotten Dark eldar. I honestly almost went with them for my first army, but not many suggested that for a first army. However I'd eventually like to get into them. Anyways, I played dark angels ravenwing list and was in his face turn one and almost tabled him. we played another and I played a LRC with banner, and DW. (point value 1350 for both). He crushed me. The lances would have killed the LR turn 1 had he not rolled bad, it ended up lasting till turn 3 however it was snapfiring each time due to pen results. I think they can be very competitve however you really have to know your tactics, and I don't believe there are many super competitive lists, but they can still do a hell of a lot of damage. The raiders with troops in it is throwing out a lot of mobile shots. But you really need to go first and have night fighting to be super effect IMO.

yeah ive just started a new dark eldar army and first impresions are quite good ive already got a squad of wyches who are amazing in their own rite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah ive just started a new dark eldar army and first impresions are quite good ive already got a squad of wyches who are amazing in their own rite.

R you kidding me? They have been a pain for me to fight ever since their 5th ed debute. I feel thatever 5th ed codex is just too undercosted and overpowered. DE spaming night shields to negate my meltaguns & dark lances to pop all my vehicles.

 Filch wrote:
R you kidding me? They have been a pain for me to fight ever since their 5th ed debute. I feel thatever 5th ed codex is just too undercosted and overpowered. DE spaming night shields to negate my meltaguns & dark lances to pop all my vehicles.

yep so thats why im getting some to tear others to shreds with lance wepons

DE are a decent shooting army that masses MSU. They have real issues with flyers though. Your core should be a cheap Blaster Archon. 3 Ravagers, then as many units of 5 Kabalite warriors with blaster in venom or 4 Trueborn with blasters in venoms as you can fit.

Basically in 1750 you want the best part of 30 Dark light shots and over 100 poison shots a turn. You want lots of units and massed firepower.

Of course DE are competitive, many say a 2nd tier army (above most marines and other xenos, below greyknghts, SW, IG and necrons). They can bring to bear an unholy amount of high end fire power and a whole lot of poison shots, but don't be fooled into thinking MSU, they're are other competitive ways to play. By investing in eldar allies you can make several MEAN deathstars such as a BaronPack (Great on its own too) with a telepathy seer running for invisibility, or putting karandras and an archon in front of a harlestar so no one can shoot them (LOL). They can also run an incredibly fast list using a lot of reaver jetbikes which are amazing this edition ( See MushKilla's battle reports, really unique and fun) or you can even run an effective coven list by maxing out talosi and throwing a turn 1 webway portal.

If you give us a preference (Which usually equates to venom/ravage spam like everyone else, tried and effective. Or a less known list that is also effective, but is a fun wild card) and we can help you build an effective list.

You think SW and GK are top tier? GKs possibly but they need allies, SWs just no. No AA whilst you don't count the best army out there at the moment (Tau) as top tier. You and I have very different ideas on competitive. Also the best Death star builds including DE don't work now that Harlequins suck and Eldar can't take Fortune whenever they want...

My friend plays SW and just won a competitive tournament. Who needs AA when you can pod in or wolf charge before they get reserves =).
My friends just ignores flyers and it seems to work for him.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You think SW and GK are top tier? GKs possibly but they need allies, SWs just no. No AA whilst you don't count the best army out there at the moment (Tau) as top tier. You and I have very different ideas on competitive. Also the best Death star builds including DE don't work now that Harlequins suck and Eldar can't take Fortune whenever they want...

Seems we seem to be clashing everywhere, a certain speech about fighting them in the fields and such comes to mind

Yes, I do think space wolves are top tier, with AMAZING troop choices (Grey Hunters being space marines + 2 for almost nothing) and the best psychic defence in the game they are doing very well for themselves. Long fangs can spam missiles like nothing else and are very good transport poppers with split fire. Very good HQ's, with wolf priest being very spammable with great powers such as Living Lightning adding to the firepower of a squad, being one of the few imperials to get divination, or JotWW which instantly counters things that give other armies trouble (Riptide getting you down? Dlord making wraithwing unkillable? Tervigons pooping out too many gants?) to the point of OPness. They are able to do rifledread as well as anyone save GK's and apart form that they play like Space marines, but better. There troops can take a charge a lot better, they can put a wolf guard with rune armour in them so he can tank heldrakes that are so prevalent, and can get two special weapons. FTR I prefer one melta in a unit of 7 in a rhino for my troop-y needs.

Not AA you say? Theirs a new thing going around about now called allies which pack up holes in other armies quite well. SW have IG as BB, and all the under-priced Vendetta-ness that comes with that. Tau? On the same level, definitely not as OMG powerful as people say. Good, but still not top, top tier with IG and friends. Now I think about it, i'd even put GK's down to high tier 2 as well, with draigowing being nurfed and all, the best GK lists I see are allied with IG and mainly work around cheap troops + Cortez and dreadknights aided by vendetta's.

So, back to dark eldar maybe instead of me rambling about the current meta of the entire tournament scene?

*Edit* I run a Harlestar myself and I can state it doesn't suck with confidence. While normally I would agree that having to pass a test on LD 9 is a nerf, even if the resultant power is much better. But we dark eldar have a way around it, grisly trophies let allies re-roll leadership tests, including psychic tests. Cause eldar get of on that kind of stuff now... I personally run it with karandras not a farseer and it alone can rip entire armies to shreds so fast its not funny. You should see the Big K charge a paladin squad, it wasn't pretty for them.

The best GK build was Purifiers in Rhinos which literally broke the game in 5th. Which is why it was hit with the nerf bat hardest in 6th. GK have their own AA in the form of the SR and Psyrifledreads which don't hit enough to be a real threat at S7 but S8 make a big difference here. You take IG allies for SWs you get 1 AA unit. All those things you listed are what made SWs great in 5th.

Tau have THE best tournament build out there. The Farsight bomb with Shadowsun is practically unbeatable. There is certainly nothing SWs can do about it unless they get real lucky with JotWW and you only get 1 shot at it and then all your RPs are dead.

However the Harle power got significantly worse not better. Going from a perma 2+ cover to old school night fighting is a nerf to the power then you chuck in needing an ld9 test and the chance to perils yourself and they have been severely curtailed. Karandras is awesome but no invun means most similarly pointed characters stave his face in. But against units he'll kill everyone by himself.

Yes, DE can be competitive, but they are a bit more difficult to play.

First off, their role in tournaments is that of the spoiler. They don't 'win' overall all that much, but they are able to completely steamroll some lists that might have been in the running for the top table. Armies with high AVs, or high toughness are what DE hope for so the lances and poison can be at their best value. Other armies that are more balanced, or flier heavy, on the other hand can really be difficult for DE to handle (CronAir and IG AV12 spam come to mind).

There are a couple things that changed DE during the transition to 6th.
1) Web way portals are really not a valid deployment option anymore. You can't assault out of them anymore, so there really isn't a point.

2) Assault units really aren't what they used to be. There are only a couple options that still work well. Beastpacks (with the Baron), Massed Grotesques, and the Harliestar. Wracks and the iconic Wyches really lost a step due to the FNP change. Overwatch hurts these more than (maybe) any unit in the game, particularly the Wyches. One saving grace for the Wyches are Haywires, it allows them to have purpose still and IMO are the most effective tank busters the DE have, assuming you can get them where they need to be.

3) Aircraft, DE just aren't very strong against Air (without allies). Their fliers are ok, great against infantry, but thats not something DE have trouble with in the first place.


Overall, assault/reserves/FNP changes, overwatch, and fliers have hurt DE. While the overall move away from transports, the increasing # of MCs, and character rules being confered to whole units have helped.
End result, DE are a fast shooty 'dark horse' of an army. Tourney games are often a blowout, one way or the other. They don't draw often.

More then one chance, most SW's bring more then 1 rune priest because of how ace they are. I would say that SW's handle farsight bomb better then most, missile launchers having always been a crisis suits nightmare, SW's have them in spades. JotWW has a good chance of sniping out shadowsun *not farsight* who gets no cover or save of any form except deny. Then the unit is missile bait, in theory. A good charge could run them down and such, but unlikely. But in all honesty, the farsight bomb isn't the most common tau competitive strategy from what I see, that is held by triple riptide. And they shall WEEP when they see they face SW's. So SW really hold there own against tau, better then most i'd say. Also for the record, vendetta's can be taking in squadrons of 3, so its 3 GREAT AA units if you really want.

Tau are quite a rock paper scissors kind of army, any army that can put the pressure up fast do well against them ( Tyranids, daemons, Drop pod armies, DE) and few armies compete range wise ( IG, Eldar and Necrons to an extent) but lots of armies are more versatile. DE assault (see, there IS a reason!!!) can pull a number by threatening so many 2nd turn assaults. Beastpack will be able to charge turn 3. I personally love reavers against tau. 2 units of 9 with 3 blasters. Reserve if they have no interceptor, then come on and insta wipe a pathfinder unit for FnP and threaten a next turn assault. Great unit, I wish we had a way to make them troops.
.

I think that the way 6th edition is going or the way gw wants it to go, is to use allies...
I think Dark Eldar are still very competitive, but I think that they do better with their Eldar allies... When I run Dark Eldar I tend to make them the allies with Eldar as I think Eldar have stronger tanks and transports, but I like the poison as GW is going more towards monstrous creatures for every new codex... I typically run as allies 2 venoms with extra splinter cannon and 5 naked kabalytes, then an Archon with Husk blade, soul trap, combat drugs, shadow field and try to put him with some wraith guard and farseer with fortune to hold the front and take reroll 2up all day. I then usually take a ravager or Void raven bomber depending on rest of the army build. Good luck

By 1 chance I mean you have 1 turn to try it then all the RPs die. Triple Riptide is no where near as competitive as the bomb. Personally I prefer double Riptide supported by Missileside spam and marker commander as it is more versatile. Triple Riptide has some hard counters (Rune Priests being one, Landraiders another). Missiles are not a threat to the bomb, auto LOS 14 gun drones and 2+ cover means they won't care, you think you have something that is a threat in combat to them? Then you haven't played it. The RPs chance of getting the power to kill Shadowsun is 20%, most people with RPs are running divination anyway so even if you have 2 your chances are only 36%...

This is still a very expensive unit, This unit takes up the better part of a 1,500 pt match! Then think that if farsight is warlord you don't get that 3d6 movement to stay out of assault, but if shadowsun is warlord a bad scatter could be...problematic. Space wolves can also go a great anti-meta list using 3-4 land raiders, which missile sides can't touch and they are resilient to riptides. Anyway, if we want to ramble about the meta, we should make another thread

 Filch wrote:
R you kidding me? They have been a pain for me to fight ever since their 5th ed debute. I feel thatever 5th ed codex is just too undercosted and overpowered. DE spaming night shields to negate my meltaguns & dark lances to pop all my vehicles.

You don't need meltas to pop Dark Eldar vehicles haha.

Dark Eldar gets a lot better when you ally in Eldar for psykers.

I'm building a DE army right now, and my army is technically 'eldar', so I can bring 2 farseers. The vast majority of my points, however, are in dark eldar.

yeh thats what im gonna do with my dark eldar with eldar support
but can eldar come through the webway

My problem with DE is the fact that they really have no solid way of beating their Eldar cousins in Serpents, and TAU with fire warriors in devils.

 jackblg wrote:
Is there such a thing as competitive Dark Eldar?

Or are they just a hit and miss army like I'v been reading?

(In case anyone is wondering iam trying to make a Dark Eldar army.. so far its going.. not too good)

thanks for your time
-jackblg-

My BA army Says yes. Something about 27 STR 8 ap1 shots just destroyed me

Well not 27 it was just alot each turn.

It is easily poodible to get 27 DL shots into a 1750 DE army. That is what a DE army should be looking to field. Something like this:

Archon: blaster 75

4 Trueborn: 4 blasters, Venom extra cannon 173
4 Trueborn: 4 blasters, Venom extra cannon 173
4 Trueborn: 4 blasters, Venom extra cannon 173

5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125
5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125
5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125
5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125
5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125
5 Warriors: Blaster Venom extra cannon 125

Ravager: 105
Ravager: 105
Ravager: 105

That's 28 and you've still got 91 points to spend. Its also potentially 156 poison shots a turn. Serpent Spam hurts as they have 60" range and ignore cover. But you've got 12 Hulls they'll probably have 6-8, whoever shoots first has a big advantage and the Eldar Range here causes you massive problems.

 knightofkob wrote:
My problem with DE is the fact that they really have no solid way of beating their Eldar cousins in Serpents, and TAU with fire warriors in devils.

they do have one piece of wargear that makes all pykers within 3d6" of wielder take a leadership test or they die, no saves allowed

 rhino-40-000 wrote:

 knightofkob wrote:
My problem with DE is the fact that they really have no solid way of beating their Eldar cousins in Serpents, and TAU with fire warriors in devils.

they do have one piece of wargear that makes all pykers within 3d6" of wielder take a leadership test or they die, no saves allowed

Which they take at Ld10 and then kill you. That item is next to pointless it will not help you against a good player and Serpent Spam beats DE without any Farseer support as all their shots already are twin linked and they ignore cover...

not you they kill themself
it could work against greyknights
thereis loads of other cool gear

Cool yes, effective? Unfortunately not.

Well, I think that a Seer Council on jetbikes supported by the Baron can be a nasty unit.
In general, Eldar and DE have great synergy which can be well exploited in well-designed army lists.

a couple are alright. depends.

also yeah wuestenfux de and eldar do work well

I agree DE make great Allies for Eldar. DE on their own just struggle against certain things (Tau, Serpents, Flyers/FMCs).